On 17/1/05 2:46 am, in article
j46dnZsnCp52u3bcRVn-ig@giganews.com, "hippo"
<hippo@southsudan.net> wrote:
"Michael W Cook" wrote in message
in article "hippo" wrote:
There's only one answer to that:
If Israel weren't occupying land illegally, and weren't allowing a
bunch
of
Zioniost religious whackos to live in their illegal settlements, then
they
wouldn't need all those boys to do military service.
Simple.
You are kidding, right? Do you really think that if the settlements were
to
be abandoned Hezbollah, Hamas, and the several Palestinian nationalist
and
fundamentalist organizations are going to abandon their jihad?
Their Jihad is perfectly legitimate, they have a foreign army occupying
their land killing their people and destroying their houses. Their
struggle
is as right as the French Resistance was against the Nazis in WWII.
Now if Israel were to remove ALL the illegal settlements, and withdraw All
troops to the pre-67 borders, then there would be a grounding for peace.
Until then, let them reap the rewards as an illegal occupying power, they
get no sympathy from me.
No, from your past posts I didn't suspect they would. I agree illegal
settlements should be abandoned and money spent developing the lands they
did win by '67. That won't stop the jihad, though, any more than our pulling
out of the Gulf.
One crime has led to another, and the totally biased support of the Zionist
State by the US has been one of the primary reasons why we find ourselves in
the position we in at present.
I've no objection to Jews living in Israel at all, what I object to is it
being a Jewish Homeland, they had no right to it whatsoever and it was a
very foolish act in creating it.
If you do you
are sadly mistaken. They exist for perpetuating the conflict just like
the
leadership of any terrorist organization.
And what of the lunatic settlers armed to the teeth ?
The roads built on Arab land for Jews only ?
The people who occupy these settlements are as fanatical and as mad as any
Nazi or Islamic Fundamentalist.
Then of course we have Israel dropping 1000IB bombs onto residential
blocks
of flats - is that not terrorism ?
The illegal assassination of 'Suspect' terrorists - no attempt is EVER
made
to arrest them and put them on trial for these alleged activities.
Suspect - Shoot them - Just like the Nazis.
Crowded Market Place - Suspect - Send a missile or tank shell in there.
Then we have the killing of innocent children.
Go to Amnesty International's web site and do a search on 'Palestinian
Children' the accounts of the hundreds of kids who have been murdered by
the
IDF will quite shock you.
Or perhaps it won't.
However, nobody is ever charged or held to account for these murders.
Shall I go on ?
The destruction of Palestinian Businesses, Crops, Orchards.
The Bulldozing of houses as a form of 'Collective' punishment.
Suspects held without trial. The torturing of these suspects.
Etc etc etc.............
I agree but given the realities since the intifada I see little choice for
Israeli reaction.
It's called a Snowball effect, one leads to another.
If it wasn't for the continued expansion of the illegal Settlements there
would have been no Intifada.
All the while both parties were at Camp David discussing a final peace
settlement, Israeli Bulldozers were still building new settlements unabated,
despite the fact they they were supposed to have stopped as part of the
agreements being discussed.
That was reason enough on it's own for Arafat to walk out.
Israel is not to be trusted.
Ariel Sharon's provocative visit shortly after to the Temple Mount, with his
band of thugs tooled up to the eyeballs complete with dark shades, just
pored petrol on the smouldering grass and turned it into an inferno.
Britain would do the same under the same level of threat,
any country with a population to protect would. I remind you of Hamburg and
Dresden.
Here you go again, trying to compare totally different conflicts that have
no similarities whatsoever.
It is their life purpose and
access for their leadership to power and money. While we agree about the
disruptive acts of radical Zionists, they have nothing on radical
Islamic
jihadists and they represent a far smaller percentage of the population
from
which they come. In several weeks in Israel I never met even one
Zionist.
You are joking I hope.
99.9% of Jews in the world support Zionism.
I, however, do not.
Zionists are radical nationalists and are not supported by even some who
live in Israel. There are many more who live outside the place who don't
either.
Look it up in a dictionary.
I will accept your apologise and correction to the above.
The IDF at present strengths will be necessary for the foreseeable
future.
Best they pull out of the Occupied Territories and bulldoze the illegal
settlements, then they wouldn't need so many of them.
Israel will never truly be safe because of the unpredictable future
attitudes of politically unstable neighboring states as well as the
ongoing
terrorist threat.
That was a fact recognised by everyone when the Zionist State was formed,
but the guilt of the Western powers after the war got the better of them
and
clouded their judgement.
Israel should never have been allowed to exist as a homeland for the Jews,
and if it wasn't for the US propping it up it would have disappeared long
ago, and that would have saved the whole world a hell of a lot of grief.
I'll accept that responsibility gladly and proudly. Every people deserves a
homeland if possible.
OK.
Where do you live ?
Lets say you live in one of the States in the US where there is a sizable
population of Native American Indians.
Suddenly the UN has decreed that a thousand mile radius around your house is
no longer part of the US, but is to become a newly formed Homeland for all
Native American Indians around the world. Because they haven't got a
homeland of their own and they have always been persecuted.
As it happens, the native American Indians probably have a better case for a
Homeland than any Jew had for the formation of the state of Israel.
Anyway, I digress, once the Native Americans start arriving and joining with
those already there, they start to attack the local non-Native Indians,
forcing them off their land by gun-point and murdering several as they go
about their dirty work.
A form of ethnic cleansing if you like on a targeted localised scale.
The people who live there have nobody to help them, and for the next 50
years the most powerful government in the world aids the native Americans
and arms them to the teeth with all the latest weaponry they can muster, to
use against the former people who lived on that land.
Then, after 50 years they decide to build a huge wall to fence all those
local people in who they haven't managed to force off their land, usually
because that land is of no use to the Native Indians anyway.
At all times these former owners of the land are treated as second class
citizens and they have no rights whatsoever. Their children and women are
shot or blown up, but nobody is ever held to account.
Roads are then built for Native Indians only, cutting across land once owned
by the former people who lived on the land with little or no compensation.
Some even have their houses bulldozed to make way for these roads.
The killing goes on, the infrastructure that these local people once had is
totally destroyed, many live in refugee camps, which are in turn sealed off
from time to time and bulldozed by the Native American Indians.
Can you see any parallels yet ?
Would you take up arms and fight against such injustices ?
Fact is there is far greater free access to everyone's
holy sites in Jerusalem under Israeli rule than under Palestinian. I had no
problems visiting Christian sites there and the Dome of the Rock was teeming
with Moslem worshipers with not a soldier in sight.
That is nonsense, throughout history the Muslims have been the better
custodians of the Holy Sites in Middle East than any Christian or Jewish
rulers of that land - FACT.
Snip
MWC