In Nov 2001 there was a thread on Margery Berners daughter and heir of
Richard Berners (-1412) of West Horsely, Surrey by Philippa dau of Sir Edward
Dalyngridge (Philippa m2 Thomas Leukenore). Margery m1 John Fereby dsp and m2 John
Bourgchire.
It was suggested that Margery may have had a sister who married Thomas
Torell.
I have come across a bit more about this Thomas Torell, but nothing more on
his wife. O.F. Brown's _The Tyrells of England_ page 90 shows that he was from
the Tyrell family, his brother being Sir John Tyrell (?c1375-1437) of Heron,
Essex who m Alice d of Sir William Coggeshall. His parent were, Walter Tyrell
(-1406) of the manor of Avene and Eleanor (-Will 1422) dau of John Flambard
I have also come across the following showing that Thomas Browne of
Betchworth, Surrey acquired the wardship and marriage to John son and heir of Thomas
Torell. I don't know if John Torell was married off to a daughter of this
Thomas Browne
1443. May 12. Westminster,
Grant to the king's serjeant Thomas Broun, one of the clerks of the Bench, of
the ward of John Torell, son and heir of Thomas Torell, tenant in chief, and
of all lands, rents and possessions late of the said Thomas Torell in the
county of Essex and elsewhere in England, with the marriage of John, to hold to
him and to his assigns so long as the premises remainin the king's hands,
rendering yearly therefor the extent thereof, as shallbe agreed between him and the
treasurer of England before Michaelmas next, and so from heir to heir, finding
competent sustenance for the heir and supporting the houses, buildings and
all other charges. By K. etc.
Prof. Bob Boynton; University of Iowa; Calendar of Patent Rolls; Hy 6 Vol 4;
p. 169
hope this is of interest to someone
Adrian
Thomas Tyrell alias Torell
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Thomas Tyrell alias Torell
In message of 8 Jan, ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com wrote:
Not that I put much reliance on a Visitation pedigree, but the Essex
Visitation of 1612 (around 200 years after the events), p. 300, shows
that John Tyrell's parents were Thomas T and Elizabeth Flambert, not
Walter and Eleanor.
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
In Nov 2001 there was a thread on Margery Berners daughter and heir
of Richard Berners (-1412) of West Horsely, Surrey by Philippa dau of
Sir Edward Dalyngridge (Philippa m2 Thomas Leukenore). Margery m1
John Fereby dsp and m2 John Bourgchire.
It was suggested that Margery may have had a sister who married
Thomas Torell.
I have come across a bit more about this Thomas Torell, but nothing
more on his wife. O.F. Brown's _The Tyrells of England_ page 90
shows that he was from the Tyrell family, his brother being Sir John
Tyrell (?c1375-1437) of Heron, Essex who m Alice d of Sir William
Coggeshall. His parent were, Walter Tyrell (-1406) of the manor of
Avene and Eleanor (-Will 1422) dau of John Flambard
Not that I put much reliance on a Visitation pedigree, but the Essex
Visitation of 1612 (around 200 years after the events), p. 300, shows
that John Tyrell's parents were Thomas T and Elizabeth Flambert, not
Walter and Eleanor.
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Gjest
Re: Thomas Tyrell alias Torell
In a message dated 09/01/05 07:15:00 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org writes:
Tim,
O.F. Brown has shown that Walter Tyrell has been omitted from the
_traditional pedigree_, or rather that he has been combined with another Walter Tyrell.
Brown gives a number of possibilities where these two Walters fit into the
Tyrell pedigree, but one of them seems to be John's father. The Will of Edward
Tyrell of 1442, brother of John of Heron, refers to his father Walter Tyrell and
Eleanor his wife, 'my mother', and 'my mother dame Eleanor Haute', his
mother's second marriage being to Nicholas Haute. In 1421 a _coram rege_ judgement
awarded to Eleanor the wife of Nicholas Haute restitution of an outstanding
debt to her parents, John and Elizabeth Flambard.
regards,
Adrian
In message of 8 Jan, ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com wrote:
In Nov 2001 there was a thread on Margery Berners daughter and heir
of Richard Berners (-1412) of West Horsely, Surrey by Philippa dau of
Sir Edward Dalyngridge (Philippa m2 Thomas Leukenore). Margery m1
John Fereby dsp and m2 John Bourgchire.
It was suggested that Margery may have had a sister who married
Thomas Torell.
I have come across a bit more about this Thomas Torell, but nothing
more on his wife. O.F. Brown's _The Tyrells of England_ page 90
shows that he was from the Tyrell family, his brother being Sir John
Tyrell (?c1375-1437) of Heron, Essex who m Alice d of Sir William
Coggeshall. His parent were, Walter Tyrell (-1406) of the manor of
Avene and Eleanor (-Will 1422) dau of John Flambard
Not that I put much reliance on a Visitation pedigree, but the Essex
Visitation of 1612 (around 200 years after the events), p. 300, shows
that John Tyrell's parents were Thomas T and Elizabeth Flambert, not
Walter and Eleanor.
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Tim,
O.F. Brown has shown that Walter Tyrell has been omitted from the
_traditional pedigree_, or rather that he has been combined with another Walter Tyrell.
Brown gives a number of possibilities where these two Walters fit into the
Tyrell pedigree, but one of them seems to be John's father. The Will of Edward
Tyrell of 1442, brother of John of Heron, refers to his father Walter Tyrell and
Eleanor his wife, 'my mother', and 'my mother dame Eleanor Haute', his
mother's second marriage being to Nicholas Haute. In 1421 a _coram rege_ judgement
awarded to Eleanor the wife of Nicholas Haute restitution of an outstanding
debt to her parents, John and Elizabeth Flambard.
regards,
Adrian
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Thomas Tyrell alias Torell
In message of 9 Jan, ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com wrote:
Many thanks and another black mark for over lengthy visitation
pedigrees!
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
In a message dated 09/01/05 07:15:00 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org writes:
In message of 8 Jan, ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com wrote:
In Nov 2001 there was a thread on Margery Berners daughter and
heir of Richard Berners (-1412) of West Horsely, Surrey by
Philippa dau of Sir Edward Dalyngridge (Philippa m2 Thomas
Leukenore). Margery m1 John Fereby dsp and m2 John Bourgchire.
It was suggested that Margery may have had a sister who married
Thomas Torell.
I have come across a bit more about this Thomas Torell, but
nothing more on his wife. O.F. Brown's _The Tyrells of England_
page 90 shows that he was from the Tyrell family, his brother
being Sir John Tyrell (?c1375-1437) of Heron, Essex who m Alice
d of Sir William Coggeshall. His parent were, Walter Tyrell
(-1406) of the manor of Avene and Eleanor (-Will 1422) dau of
John Flambard
Not that I put much reliance on a Visitation pedigree, but the Essex
Visitation of 1612 (around 200 years after the events), p. 300,
shows that John Tyrell's parents were Thomas T and Elizabeth
Flambert, not Walter and Eleanor.
Tim,
O.F. Brown has shown that Walter Tyrell has been omitted from the
_traditional pedigree_, or rather that he has been combined with
another Walter Tyrell. Brown gives a number of possibilities where
these two Walters fit into the Tyrell pedigree, but one of them
seems to be John's father. The Will of Edward Tyrell of 1442,
brother of John of Heron, refers to his father Walter Tyrell and
Eleanor his wife, 'my mother', and 'my mother dame Eleanor Haute',
his mother's second marriage being to Nicholas Haute. In 1421 a
_coram rege_ judgement awarded to Eleanor the wife of Nicholas
Haute restitution of an outstanding debt to her parents, John and
Elizabeth Flambard.
regards,
Adrian
Many thanks and another black mark for over lengthy visitation
pedigrees!
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Gjest
Re: Thomas Tyrell alias Torell
A week ago I wrote,
<snip>
I have been kindly reminded that Philippa was in fact daughter of Walter
Dalyngridge brother of the above Sir Edward, as per messages previously posted by
me.
Adrian
In Nov 2001 there was a thread on Margery Berners daughter and heir of
Richard Berners (-1412) of West Horsely, Surrey by Philippa dau of Sir
Edward
Dalyngridge (Philippa m2 Thomas Leukenore). Margery m1 John Fereby dsp and
m2 John
Bourgchire.
<snip>
I have been kindly reminded that Philippa was in fact daughter of Walter
Dalyngridge brother of the above Sir Edward, as per messages previously posted by
me.
Adrian