Constable Connection: the Lords Thweng

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

Constable Connection: the Lords Thweng

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 jan 2005 15:31:02

Saturday, 8 January, 2005


Hello All,

Reviewing a group of pedigrees from Foster's Pedigrees of the
County Families of Yorkshire, I came across an interesting entry
in that of Constable of 'Constable Burton' among the issue of
William Constable of Halsham and his wife Cecily de Thweng. In
addition to his eldest son William (d.s.p.) and his younger son
and eventual heir Sir Simon (d. bef 1 Mar 1294), correctly
placed, Foster places:

' Robert Constable, was of Flamborough, calls Sir
Marmaduke Thwenge his uncle 1319, and Edward
Thwenge, of Cornburgh, his cousin. = .....
_________________I
I I
Marmaduke Constable, Catherine. ' [1]

The relationship indicated, placing Sir Robert le Constable
of Flamborough (d. aft 8 Dec 1336) as the issue of a father other
than Sir William le Constable of Flamborough (d. aft 26 Apr 1319)
is clearly incorrect as a review of the SGM archives will show.
However, the evidence that caused Foster to show this placement
should not be so readily dismissed, and requires examination.

That Sir Robert le Constable of Flamborough was related to
the Thweng family (Lords Thweng, of Kilton and Kirkleatham) is
already known, as discussed in prior SGM threads [2]. He and his
sons William and Marmaduke were specifically identified as
kinsmen by Thomas de Thweng in 1348 [3]. The evidence used by
Foster as a basis for making the misidentification has not yet
been located, but it does indicate the following as the correct
reconstruction:

[NOTE: the following chart has a conjectural link _ _ _ ]


Sir Marmaduke de Thweng = [ca 1242] Lucy de Brus
d. bef 1285 I
__________________________________I _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I I I I I I I I
Robert Sir Marmaduke <siblings> a dau. [Alicia ?]
(dvp) Lord Thweng = Sir William le
= 2) NN b. ca. 1256 = [1273] Constable
I d. ca. 1322 I Isabel de Ros d. aft Apr 1319
I __________I_______ _____________I___
I I III I I I I
Lucy Marmaduke THOMAS SIR ROBERT Alice
<heiress dvp de Thweng le Constable
of Skelton> 1297 dsp 1374 b. say 1270-1280
d. aft 8 Dec 1336
= Katherine
________________I__________________
I I I I
William KATHERINE MARMADUKE Agnes
dvp d. 1378
= 1) Joan la Zouche


The above fits the known evidence, and that cited (by not
identified) by Foster. It also fits with the known Thweng
genealogy, as the issue of Sir Marmaduke de Thweng and Lucy de
Brus is known to have been significant (14 individuals
identified, but not all with biographical details/spouses).
Chronologically, the children of this marriage were born over a
range of say 1255 to 1276, so there is no evidence that such a
relationship as shown above would present a problem. A review of
the detailed account in EYC re: the Constables of Flamborough
(thanks to Rosie) has to date not found the specific evidence,
although other documentation as to Sir Robert's career in 1319
has been found.

If this reconstruction is correct, it would provide a
significant step in completing the Constable (of Flamborough)
pedigree. Should anyone have suggestions for specific research,
or note the relevant documentation in their own endeavours, that
information would be most welcome.

Cheers,

John *


NOTES

[1] Joseph Foster, Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire
(London: W. Wilfred Head, 1874), vol. II (pages not
numbered).

[2] See <Thomas de Thweng (d. 1374) and the Constables of
Flamborough>, Aug 2004; <Thomas de Thweng (d. 1374) and the
Constables of Flamborough>, Sept-Oct 2004; and others

[3] Inspeximus and confirmation of letters patent of William,
late archbishop of York, dated in Cawode manor, 31 May, 1348,
ordaining, on the petition of Thomas de Thweng, rector and
patron of the church of Lythom, dated 33 Edward III - Part
III, m. 22 1359 Oct. 6. Westminster, states in part:

" Each chaplain in masses and his other prayers shall make mention for the
good estate of the said Thomas, the king
and queen, the archbishop and the dean and canons of York, the
dignities in the same hurch, and Sir Henry de Percy, for the souls of their
ancestors and heirs and those named above when they depart this life, of all
rectors and patrons of the church, Robert de Thweng, Maud, his wife, Marmaduke
Thweng, Lucy, his wife, Marmaduke de Thweng, Isabel, his wife, Marmaduke,
William, Robert, John and Nicholas, brothers of the said Thomas, Marmaduke de
Lomleye and his father, mother and heirs, Robert de Hylton, Margaret, his wife, and
their heirs, Richard Mauleverer, Robert, William and Marmaduke Conestable,
Ralph Daubeney, Katharine, his wife, and their heirs, Isabel Tylioll, Margaret
de Roos of Kendale, John de Otton, Christiana de Lyndesaye, Katharine
Conestable, Lucy de Plumpton, Elizabeth, her daughter, Walter de
Esyngton, and his wife, brothers and sisters, Patrick de Langedale, John de
Sutton, all relatives of the said Thomas, parishioners of Lythom church, and
the faithful. "

Calendar of Patent Rolls 1358-61, pp. 287, 288, provided
by Chris Phillips.



* John P. Ravilious

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»