Dr. David Kelley: Gundulf and the ancestry of St. Arnulf

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Dr. David Kelley: Gundulf and the ancestry of St. Arnulf

Legg inn av Gjest » 03 jan 2005 20:01:01

Monday, 3 January, 2005


Dear Don,

After reading your post in the current SGM thread <My
Merovingian Line>, I also noted that your earlier post in
question is not shown in Google. However, as I found this in
the archives via Rootsweb, I am posting same for ready
reference.

Cheers,

John



GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

From: Don Stone <don.stone@verizon.net>
Subject: Gundulf and the ancestry of St. Arnulf (was Re: Munderic)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:42:39 -0400



Comments on Gundulf and the ancestry of St. Arnulf by David H. Kelley:

The _Vita Gundulfi_ (Life of St. Gundulf) supplies the following information:
Arnulf was a son of Bodegisel and was a _nepos_ of Gundulf, who was a son of
Munderic (killed young), who was a son of Childeric the Parricide (also
killed
young). (Note: it is reasonable to identify this Childeric with the Chloderic
the Parricide mentioned by Gregory of Tours. Gregory gives Chloderic's father
as Sigebert, King of Cologne, and says that this Sigebert was a relative of
the Merovingians. He was probably descended from the earlier [Merovingian]
kings of Cologne.) The VG places emphasis on the redeeming qualities of God
toward Gundulf, the grandson of a parricide; in the book of Exodus it says
that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children even unto the
third and fourth generation, and the early deaths of Childeric and Munderic
are consistent with this, but Gundulf's virtue and God's grace were
sufficient
to break this pattern.

Either you accept the VG as a valid and important historical source, or you
reject it. Many reject it, but Settipani and I accept it.

As outlined above, the VG says that Arnulf (identified by both Settipani and
myself as St. Arnulf, although he is not explicitly so identified by the VG)
was the son of Bodegisel and the _nepos_ of Gundulf. Now _nepos_ may mean
either nephew (great-nephew) or grandson. Settipani thinks that Arnulf's
father Bodegisel was a nephew of St. Gundulf; I think that he was a son of
St.
Gundulf; in other words, I think that _nepos_ as applied to Arnulf means
grandson, rather than nephew or great-nephew. Settipani prefers to view
Arnulf's father Bodegisel as a nephew of St. Gundulf because he has
identified
this Bodegisel with the Bodegisel who is attested in other historical sources
as son of Mummolinus. I, on the other hand, think that Bodegisel is a son of
St. Gundulf whose historical role is not known, in part because this fits
better with the VG storyline of breaking the pattern of visiting the sins of
the fathers upon their descendants.

-- Don Stone, who is currently visiting Prof. Kelley in Calgary

Don Stone wrote:
Phil Moody wrote:

Well said, Ford. I think a better question is - what evidence has caused
Prof. Kelley to change his long standing position on this issue, and
whether he has considered an alternative supposition concerning the
identity of Munderic's spouse? I am curious to know why Prof. Kelley now
believes Gundulf is two distinct individuals, and perhaps someone can
contact him and see if he is willing to clarify his new position? I can
appreciate his silence on the matter if he is considering publishing his
new findings, but I would be grateful for clarification on this point as
well.

I believe Prof. Kelley has a copy of Onomastique and Parente, and it could
well be that the material mentioned below is a factor in his new position.
I'll ask when I next communicate with him.

I don't think he is actively researching this cluster of people at present.

-- Don Stone

I wrote earlier:

In yesterday's mail I received a package from Prof. Kelley including a
brief comment on this. He says that he does not believe that Gundulf,
son
of Artemia, is identical with Gundulf, son of Munderic, and therefore no
longer thinks that Artemia was Munderic's wife.

In a message to soc.genealogy.medieval dated 2001-05-07, Christian
Settipani said:

Arnulf is a son of Bodogisel according to texts of 9th c. The Vita
Gundulfi adds that he was the nephew of Gundulf, son of Munderic.
This Gundulf, (great-)uncle of Arnulf, could be the nephew of a first
Gundulf, son of Artemia, sister of Sacerdos, bishop of Lyons. For the
value of these late texts and the confirmations they have in reliable
sources, see now my paper in ' Onomastique and Parente ', p. 185-229.

These relationships are diagrammed on p. 229, Tableau 10: Conclusion: Les
ancêtres de Arnulf.


* John P. Ravilious

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