Monday, 3 January, 2005
Dear Doug (and Peter, et al.),
The post you mentioned by Kelsey Williams gave the following 8 (or
9) Byzantine 'gateways' for Edward III of England and his wife Philippa
of Hainaut. My views on same are indicated after each: the views of
others among the list as to the validity or controversy re: each would
be of interest.
I. Maria, dau. of Emperor Theodor Laskaris (d. 1270) = Bela IV, King of
Hungary (1206-1270)
Valid (ancestors of Philippa of Hainaut through the Angevin Kings
of Naples). NOTE: Theodore Laskaris, 'emperor' of Nicaea, d. in
1222,
not 1270.
II. Eudokia, niece of Emperor Manuel Komnenos = Guillem VIII, Seigneur
de Montpellier (d. 1202)
Valid (ancestors of both Edward III and Philippa through the Kings
of Aragon). NOTE the current controversy as to the exact
relationship
between Eudokia and the Emperor John II (d. 1143) of whom she was
either a descendant (possibly granddaughter) or great-niece. Her
descent from the Emperor Alexius I is apparently not in dispute.
III. Irene, dau. of Emperor Isaac II Angelos = Philipp von Schwaben,
Deutschen Koenig (1178-1208)
Valid (ancestors of Edward III through the Dukes of Brabant and
the Counts of Artois). NOTE also there are several other 'English'
descents, through the sons of Edward I of England by Marguerite of
France, and also through the marriage of Edmund, Earl of Lancaster
('Crouchback' to some) as 2nd husband to Blanche of Artois.
IV. N., dau. of Theodules Synadenos = Geisa I, King of Hungary (d.
1077)
Valid, although (beyond NN Synadena being a niece of the Emperor
Nikephoros Botaneiates) I am still looking for the alleged descent
from the Phokai.
V. Anna, niece of Emperor Alexios I Komnenos (b. say 1080) = Uros I
Nemanjic, Prince of Serbia
Uncertain as to how solid this one is. Paul Theroff shows Anna as
"probably dau.of Konstantinos Diogenes", a brother-in-law of the
Emperor Alexius.
VI. N., dau. of Emperor Konstantinos IX Monomachos (d. 1067) = Vsevolod
I, Grand Prince of Kiev (1030-1093)
Probable, and also very interesting, but evidently not proven.
Christian Settipani wrote in 2001 in the SGM thread "Re: Monomachos",
' Constantine IX had a wife (name unknown) and a mistress (Maria),
both Skleraina, and his putative daughter is obviously issued from one
of them. The wife is the daughter of Basil Skleros and of Pulcheria
Argyropoulina, and the mistress is the sister of
Romanos Skleros and the paternal niece of Basil. It was the common
grandfather
of these two women, the famous Romanos Skleros, who has married a
sister of Abou
Taglib, emir of Alep. Romanos' grandmother, Gregoria, was the
great-granddaughter of Bardas, brother of emperor Basil I, who claimed
a descent
from Alexander the Great. But the descent is fictional of course.
You could find all relevant references in J.-F. Vannier, Les Argyroi,
Paris,
1974 and J.-Cl. Cheynet, Pouvoir et Contestation à Byzance, Paris,
1990.
Last, Constantine's relative who married Vsevolod (I think there
is a good
chance she was a daughter, but she can be a niece or a first cousin) is
not
known by name. There are some chances that her name was Anna (nor Maria
or
Irene, and certainly not Maria Irene).'
VII. Theophano, niece of Emperor Ioannes I Tzimiskes (956-991) = Otto
II, Holy Roman Emperor (955-983)
Uncertain; or as that noted genealogist Bill Clinton would say,
"that depends on what you mean by the word 'niece'."
On the issue of her being identified as Theophano Sklerina, Peter
Stewart wrote in July of last year,
' This can't be settled from definitive proof, of course, but the
view generally taken today was set out by Gunther Wolf in
'Wer war Theophanu?', Kaiserin Theophanu, Begegnung des Ostens
und Westens um die Wende des ersten Jahrtausends: Gedenkschrift
des Koelner Schnuetgen-Museums zum 1000 Todesjahr der Kaiserin,
edited by Anton von Euw & Peter Schreiner, 2 vols
(Cologne, 1991), II 385-396.
She is thought to have been the daughter of Konstantinos Skleros
(whose sister Maria was married to Emperor Iohannes Tzimiskes)
and Maria Phokaina.'
While probably not a blood relation of the Emperor John Tzimiskes,
Theophano (if a Sclerina) was descended from the Phokai, and also from
Bardas, a brother of the Emperor Basil I (d. 886).
VIII. Anna, dau. of Emperor Leo VI (c889-c903) = Louis III, Holy Roman
Emperor (c880-928)
Unproven.
IX. N., sister-in-law of Emperor Konstantinos VI = Grimoald III, Duke
of
Benevento (d. 806)
Uncertain; I would be interested in the views of others as to this
alleged connection.
Hope this is helpful (any responses will of course be of
interest).
Cheers,
John
Doug McDonald wrote:
Peter Stewart wrote:
"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:cra49m$4lm$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
SNIP
On Feb. 20, 2003, Kelsey Williams made a post titled "Byzantine
Ancestors of the English Kings", listing 9 connections.
One was disposed of soon thereafter, no issue, and another
(Montpellier) here. As far as I know no others have been
shown to be wrong, at least here. Is this correct?
Doug McDonald