America and Royal Heritage

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JOY ROBBINS

America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av JOY ROBBINS » 22 des 2004 19:01:02

Suffice to say that the American's who trace to English Royal bloodlines are
no different than you, if you trace to the same lines. Why does that bother
you? What possible difference does it make if one lives in the US,
Australia, England, Germany, Japan...or wherever and traces to English royal
blood? Do you remember the motto, "The sun never sets on the English
Empire"? Seems to me if England wanted to keep her royal blood bound up in
her shores she never would have explored and settled the world.

Gjest

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 des 2004 22:31:01

In a message dated 12/22/2004 12:59:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
joy1982@tampabay.rr.com writes:

Suffice to say that the American's who trace to English Royal bloodlines are
no different than you, if you trace to the same lines. Why does that bother
you? What possible difference does it make if one lives in the US,
Australia, England, Germany, Japan...or wherever and traces to English royal
blood? Do you remember the motto, "The sun never sets on the English
Empire"? Seems to me if England wanted to keep her royal blood bound up in
her shores she never would have explored and settled the world.



Not only that, but I have "Royal" ancestors from nearly every country in
Europe,including the Kumans, and lots of other primative tribes. They are just
that, ancestors. They make me no better nor worse than anyone else. I
didn't start out looking for such ancestors, they just came with the research.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Frank Bullen

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Frank Bullen » 23 des 2004 05:41:01

Good for you, Joy! Although I haven't see the message to which you are responding, it is totally ridiculous, in my view, to complain about English descendants overseas being interested in the possibility of a link with British royalty.

Rather, we should be proud that Britain's grandchildren have had some influence in other countries with their language and culture. I was born in England, spent my earliest years there, served during WW2 in the British Army (in a Guards regiment incidentally - part of the Royal Household troops) but have lived outside England for the greater part of my life. And, in my case, there are distinct links to Tudor royalty.

Can I produce documentary evidence of that? Not yet, (and doing so would be extremely expensive, given the adverse exchange rate.) But are my son's to be denied the right to consider that possibility simply because they live overseas?

Rubbish. Please let us all try to get things into perspective and not be ungenerous.

Good luck in your efforts.

Frank

Gjest

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 des 2004 07:48:12

It would be ridiculous for anyone in England to resent descendants of
English royals outside of England since, after all, the current royal
family pulls most of its ancestry from such places. I think that part
of what is operating here is that "displaced" ethnic populations become
frozen in time. Their nostalgia for their ethnic origin eventually
becomes exaggerated because it is consciously cherished. While such
populations grasp an old-fashioned and relatively unchanging version of
their ancestral cultures, those who stayed in the home country continue
their normal cultural development (i.e., are the updated modern
version) and do not consciously think about their ethnicity on a daily
basis. There are many examples I could use: Nigerian populations that
have lived a 300-year old tribal lifestyle in Brazil, my own Japanese
in-laws who visited their relatives in Japan only to be teased for
their old-fashioned language, my own relatives who place Native
American art work and artifacts around their homes as markers of who
they are while those who live in the tribal areas most often do
not....why should European populations be any different?

Rose

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Rose » 23 des 2004 17:33:37

Joy,

I am begining to think my original message has been taken out of
context. It does not bother me in the slightest Americans or anyone
else tracing their ancestry back to British Royalty. And I am
certainly NOT anti-American. What concerns me is the way in which
Americans (mostly) always seem to have to publicise the fact that
someone in the public eye (i.e. Presidents etc.,) have descent from
some far-flung British monarch, It is not the case that they can show
their ancestry at all (good luck to them if they can), just why do we
all need to have it rammed down our throats!
What I was saying was that this does not happen in Britain. I don't
think anyone really cares or knows who Tony Blair's or David
Beckham's ancestors were. To the British it is not important and very
often played down. I am certainly not knocking those many, many
fortunate people who can show Royalty descent.

Rose

D. Spencer Hines

Re: America And Royal Heritage

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 23 des 2004 18:31:01

Truly the lady doth protest too much.

What she describes is simply Reverse Classism in Britain --- part of the
British pretense that classes do not exist -- whereas we all know the
Brits have a highly-developed, complex and most amusing Class System.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Rose" <maytree4@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1103819617.388313.281690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

| Joy,
|
| I am begining to think my original message has been taken out of
| context. It does not bother me in the slightest Americans or anyone
| else tracing their ancestry back to British Royalty. And I am
| certainly NOT anti-American. What concerns me is the way in which
| Americans (mostly) always seem to have to publicise the fact that
| someone in the public eye (i.e. Presidents etc.,) have descent from
| some far-flung British monarch, It is not the case that they can show
| their ancestry at all (good luck to them if they can), just why do we
| all need to have it rammed down our throats!
| What I was saying was that this does not happen in Britain. I don't
| think anyone really cares or knows who Tony Blair's or David
| Beckham's ancestors were. To the British it is not important and very
| often played down. I am certainly not knocking those many, many
| fortunate people who can show Royalty descent.
|
| Rose

Peter A. Kincaid

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Peter A. Kincaid » 23 des 2004 22:01:01

Then how does one explain the House of Lords?

To me there are a lot of titles in Britain that lets one know
where they fit in society. In North America, when money or
higher education are not obtained by those who need it
to feel elevated above the rest, one can only look to their
pedigree to be fulfilled.

Merry Christmas!

Peter


At 12:33 PM 23/12/2004, you wrote:
Joy,

I am begining to think my original message has been taken out of
context. It does not bother me in the slightest Americans or anyone
else tracing their ancestry back to British Royalty. And I am
certainly NOT anti-American. What concerns me is the way in which
Americans (mostly) always seem to have to publicise the fact that
someone in the public eye (i.e. Presidents etc.,) have descent from
some far-flung British monarch, It is not the case that they can show
their ancestry at all (good luck to them if they can), just why do we
all need to have it rammed down our throats!
What I was saying was that this does not happen in Britain. I don't
think anyone really cares or knows who Tony Blair's or David
Beckham's ancestors were. To the British it is not important and very
often played down. I am certainly not knocking those many, many
fortunate people who can show Royalty descent.

Rose

John Steele Gordon

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av John Steele Gordon » 23 des 2004 23:06:59

As the social historian Cleveland Amory once explained, "A good family is
one that used to be better." In other words, they have "breeding" but no
money or other distinctions any more.

JSG


""Peter A. Kincaid"" <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:6.2.0.14.1.20041223164131.01ce0aa8@pop1.nb.sympatico.ca...
Then how does one explain the House of Lords?

To me there are a lot of titles in Britain that lets one know
where they fit in society. In North America, when money or
higher education are not obtained by those who need it
to feel elevated above the rest, one can only look to their
pedigree to be fulfilled.

Gjest

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 des 2004 00:31:02

In a message dated 23/12/04 22:08:59 GMT Standard Time,
ancestry@optonline.net writes:

As the social historian Cleveland Amory once explained, "A good family is
one that used to be better." In other words, they have "breeding" but no
money or other distinctions any more.


Yes, I like this one.

My family were once described as 'living in Genteel poverty in Lichfield'.
Needless to say they had lost the family fortunes and lands and had to succumb
to working for a living. Ah, well.

Norm

Gjest

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 des 2004 07:03:55

Yes, well, the message to which you were responding did not appear on
my list and, assuming that this is true of other readers as well, it is
highly probable that your original message has been taken out of
context (since we have no context for it). Some posters, most notably
one from Britain, have attempted to make the point that having royal
ancestors somehow predisposes a person to excellence and leadership.
Most of us, I believe, find that viewpoint repugnant and easily
disproved.

John Steele Gordon

Re: America and Royal Heritage

Legg inn av John Steele Gordon » 24 des 2004 22:46:47

It seems to me that this is just a quirk of the American psyche, and I am
not about to enter the tulgey woods of psycho-history in order to speculate
on how it arose.

Genealogists investigate the ancestry of presidential candidates, because
that is what genealogists do, and then, because of this quirk, the media
make a big deal out of what they find, which is usually not very interesting
from a genealogical standpoint.

The fact that George Bush and John Kerry are distant cousins several times
over, for instance, was reported everywhere, although as everyone on this
list knows, it would be far more unusual for two men with substantial
colonial New England ancestry NOT to be distant cousins several times over.
And most people, including journalists, think provable descent from medieval
royalty is unusual, when, in fact, it is about as unusual as being
left-handed.

Journalistic ignorance of genealogy is often vast and the result is that
they often play genealogical commonplaces as big-deal stories. A few years
ago--on what was obviously a *very* slow news day--the New York Times, no
less, ran a front page story revealing the less-than-stunning news that a
descendant of Miles Standish was marrying a descendant of John Alden and
Priscilla Mullin, reuniting the famous Pilgrim romantic triangle of
Longfellow's poem. Too bad the NYTimes reporter never bothered to check with
a genealogist. He might have learned that the triangle was reunited in the
second generation, when John and Priscilla's daughter Sarah married Miles's
son Alexander, and Alden and Standish descendants have intermarried
hundreds, perhaps thousands of times since.

JSG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rose" <maytree4@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: America and Royal Heritage



"Rose" <maytree4@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1103819617.388313.281690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Joy,

I am begining to think my original message has been taken out of
context. It does not bother me in the slightest Americans or anyone
else tracing their ancestry back to British Royalty. And I am
certainly NOT anti-American. What concerns me is the way in which
Americans (mostly) always seem to have to publicise the fact that
someone in the public eye (i.e. Presidents etc.,) have descent from
some far-flung British monarch, It is not the case that they can show
their ancestry at all (good luck to them if they can), just why do we
all need to have it rammed down our throats!
What I was saying was that this does not happen in Britain. I don't
think anyone really cares or knows who Tony Blair's or David
Beckham's ancestors were. To the British it is not important and very
often played down. I am certainly not knocking those many, many
fortunate people who can show Royalty descent.

Rose

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