Paternal grandparents of Ranulf, 1st Earl of Chester, who m.

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Doug McDonald

Paternal grandparents of Ranulf, 1st Earl of Chester, who m.

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 20 des 2004 23:19:49

The question is the subject line:

who are the paternal grandparents of Ranulf, 1st Earl of Chester, who
m. the infamous Countess Lucy (this Ranulf m Lucy)

Some say the paternal grandmother is Alice, son
of Richard, Duke of Normandy, by an unknown wife,
which said Richard was son of Richard, Duke of the
Normans and Judith of Brittany.

Others leave this position blank. I find nothing
conclusive in the archives, nor in the "most reputable"
of secondary sources.

Doug McDonald

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Paternal grandparents of Ranulf, 1st Earl of Chester, wh

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 21 des 2004 05:10:29

Doug McDonald wrote:
The question is the subject line:

who are the paternal grandparents of Ranulf, 1st Earl of Chester, who m.
the infamous Countess Lucy (this Ranulf m Lucy)

Some say the paternal grandmother is Alice, son
of Richard, Duke of Normandy, by an unknown wife,
which said Richard was son of Richard, Duke of the
Normans and Judith of Brittany.

Others leave this position blank. I find nothing
conclusive in the archives, nor in the "most reputable"
of secondary sources.

This connection is based on the Norman chronicler Robert of
Torigny, who states that Duke Richard III had son Nicholas and
two daughters: Alice, married to Ranulf, vicount of Bayeux, and
Papia, married to Walter de St. Valery. Unfortunately, this is
seriously confused as to the latter, who married Gilbert of St.
Valery, grandfather of Walter, and was daughter of Richard I,
grandfather of Richard III. There are no similar obvious
problems with Alice, but the error with the other sister makes me
somewhat cautious. (Just as a note, Torigny never says that they
are legitimate, so perhaps "by an unknown woman" would be better
than "by an unknown wife".)

In compiling the line for Ancestral Roots, Douglas Richardson
supplied the following further references -

Douglas, _Wm the Conq_, pp. 92-3; Douglas, _The Rise of Norm._,
pp. 127-8; Gallia Christiana, XI, Instrumenta, 70; Chr. Rob.
Torigny, (ed Delisle) 1:34; and Rec. des Actes des Ducs de Norm.,
(Faroux) no. 111.

Of these, the Douglas references simply cites the other
references in the list, while we have seen what Robert de Torigny
had to say. Perhaps Mr. Richardson can fill us in on the
relevance of the Gallia Christiana and Rec. des Actes references
to the question.

taf

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