One of the more interesting late 14th-century marriages of a wealthy
noble widow to a younger man of lesser social standing turns out to be
the second marriage of Elizabeth, countess of Atholl. CP gives only
the name of her second husband - John Malewayn - and no further
information.
Elizabeth was the younger daughter of Henry de Ferrers, baron of
Groby, by his wife Isabel de Verdun. She was born in the mid 1330s,
and named for her maternal grandmother Elizabeth de Burgh, lady of
Clare. Her grandmother had a major influence on young Elizabeth's
life, with her visiting the lady's household frequently as a young
girl, starting in 1341. In 1342, her father bought for 1,000 marks
the marriage of David de Strabogie, the 10-year-old heir to the late
earl of Atholl, and arranged the marriage of his younger daughter to
him. (He had arranged the marriage of his elder daughter, Philippa de
Ferrers, to Guy de Beauchamp, heir to the earldom of Warwick, in
1340.) Henry de Ferrers died the following year, after which
Elizabeth became a member of the household of her grandmother the lady
of Clare. Her betrothed David de Strabogie visited her there in
1344-45 and 1346-47. Elizabeth's mother Isabel de Verdun died of the
plague in 1349, leaving her three Ferrers children orphaned. It was
their grandmother of Clare who became their most prominent maternal
figure.
In 1355, David de Strabogie was of full age and allowed to enter the
English lands of his paternal inheritance. Elizabeth, on the verge of
age 20, had moved from her grandmother's to her husband's household by
then, though she stayed with her grandmother again in 1357-58 while
her husband was in France on a military expedition with the Black
Prince. The lady of Clare died in 1360, and the countess of Atholl,
already pregnant, named her firstborn child after her beloved
grandmother the following spring. Another child, daughter Philippa de
Strabogie, was born in 1362. The earl of Atholl never succeeded in
regaining his Scottish inheritance, and died in 1369, leaving
Elizabeth a widowed countess in her early 30s.
The countess must have been a well-liked figure at court, for even
before her husband's death, she was granted an annuity of 100 marks in
1365. Queen Philippa died the same year as the earl of Atholl, and
Elizabeth's last years coincided with the final years of the reign of
Edward III, when the monarch was under the influence of mistress Alice
Perrers. Unlike her grandmother and her elder sister Philippa de
Beauchamp, the countess of Atholl did not take a vow of chastity when
widowed. Instead, she married, within a couple years, an esquire of
the king who was nearly ten years younger than her.
John Malewayn was born in 1344, the only son of a rich London
merchant, also named John Malewayn, who had married well. The elder
John Malewayn had married Margery (born about 1322), young widow of
---- Turk (by whom she had a son John), and elder daughter of
Augustine and Maud Waleys, who held several properties in London and
surrounding counties. Augustine died in 1354, and his widow Maud the
following spring 1355, leaving their properties divided between their
two daughters. Though Margery Malewayn died sometime in the next five
years, her husband remained an influential London merchant, amassing
properties through wardships and mortgages. He died on 23 June 1361,
leaving his son John, aged 17, as his heir. As some of Malewayn's
properties were held in chief, the teenaged John Malewayn became a
ward of the crown. In October 1365, he proved his age before the
mayor of London and was allowed to enter his paternal inheritance
(properties in London, Middlesex, Kent, Southampton, Wiltshire,
Berkshire, Cambridgeshire and Essex). Though the properties were
spread out over an impressive array of counties, only six manors were
among the inheritance (three on the Isle of Wight), and the maternal
Waleys inheritance went to Malewayn's elder half-brother John Turk.
Luckily, Malewayn's wardship to the crown had exposed him to the
court, and he was held in high enough esteem to be made a king's
esquire. It was probably in the early 1370s that he came to the
attention of the widowed countess of Atholl (though she could have met
him while the earl was still alive), and they were married by 1373.
This was hardly a match of social equals - the countess was a royal
kinswoman and member of one of the most powerful baronial families.
Her husband, though well-off, was of merchant class, not even
knighted, and only in his late 20s. In the fall of 1373, the countess
of Atholl and Malewayn formally surrendered her 100 marks annuity to
Alice Perrers, which suggests that they owed something to the king's
mistress (perhaps she had encouraged the match of the countess with
the king's esquire).
This unequal match was sadly short-lived. The countess died two years
later, in October 1375, aged about 40. Her young husband did not long
survive her. He last appears in Chancery Rolls in March 1377, when he
was ordered to fortify his Isle of Wight estates in case of a naval
invasion. He died later that spring, aged only 32, the writs of diem
clausit extremum for him being issued 19 June 1377. Sadly, no IPMs
appear to have survived, so it's not known if he and the countess of
Atholl had any issue. I'll try and track down through the Close and
Fine Rolls (the relevant volumes were not on the Library shelf) what
happened to the Malewayn properties after John's death. He had at
least two sisters, so perhaps they inherited.
At any rate, it's an interesting match - a countess to a merchant's
son - and predates the marriages of the Welsh London merchant Lewis
John to two different widowed noblewomen by a few decades.
Cheers, -----------Brad
John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Atholl
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Ath
"Elizabeth was the younger daughter of Henry de Ferrers, baron of Groby, by his wife Isabel de Verdun. She was born in the mid 1330s, and named for her maternal grandmother Elizabeth de Burgh, lady of Clare. "
Thank you Brad for this useful biography of Elizabeth, Countess of Atholl 1334/5-1375
Just to add a bit from Leo's helpful site
Elizabeth died 22 Oct 1375 Ashford, Kent
Her father Henry, 3rd Lord Ferrers of Groby died 15 Sep 1343 Groby
Her mother Isabel de Verdun died 25 Jul 1349
Henry's parents were William, 2nd Lord Ferrers of Groby and Ellen de Seagrave
Isabel's parents were Theobald, Baron Verdun b 8 Sep 1278 and Elizabeth, Lady of Clare b 16 Sep 1295 Tewkesbury.
This Elizabeth was the daughter of Gilbert, 3rd Earl Gloucester 2 Sep 1243-7 Dec 1295 and Joan of Acre 1272-23 Apr 1307.
In my case, this tracking allowed me to tie this biography into people already in my database.
Will Johnson
Thank you Brad for this useful biography of Elizabeth, Countess of Atholl 1334/5-1375
Just to add a bit from Leo's helpful site
Elizabeth died 22 Oct 1375 Ashford, Kent
Her father Henry, 3rd Lord Ferrers of Groby died 15 Sep 1343 Groby
Her mother Isabel de Verdun died 25 Jul 1349
Henry's parents were William, 2nd Lord Ferrers of Groby and Ellen de Seagrave
Isabel's parents were Theobald, Baron Verdun b 8 Sep 1278 and Elizabeth, Lady of Clare b 16 Sep 1295 Tewkesbury.
This Elizabeth was the daughter of Gilbert, 3rd Earl Gloucester 2 Sep 1243-7 Dec 1295 and Joan of Acre 1272-23 Apr 1307.
In my case, this tracking allowed me to tie this biography into people already in my database.
Will Johnson
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Ath
In message of 3 Dec, batruth@hotmail.com (Brad Verity) wrote:
Should I put in "Thank you for your good post"? On the whole no, it
would be patronsing of me as it pretends that I know enough of the
subject to be a judge of this contribution. On the contrary I know so
little, that it makes no sense for me to evaluate what is presented.
That said, it seems to be a bloody marvellous post, full of detail that
could only have been obtained from hours of poring over illegible and
unintelligible ancient documents.
Now for a couple of points, one even a mote, remembering always the beam
in mine own eye...
But her mother was Isobel. And I have understood that Isobel and
Elizabeth were the same name?
<big snip of marvellous stuff>
There were, and indeed are, two features to a land-owner's life. He was
always short of money and the money-lenders were always after him or,
after his death, his heirs. So I am not surprised at these marriages,
much as they were rich city man to perhaps less cash-rich landowning
woman. A few years later in 1483 we have Maud Fraunceys marrying the
earl of Salisbury. It would be interesting to know when and how this
marrying practice developed and if it was caused by the short-term
convenience of throwing the money-lenders out of the country.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Should I put in "Thank you for your good post"? On the whole no, it
would be patronsing of me as it pretends that I know enough of the
subject to be a judge of this contribution. On the contrary I know so
little, that it makes no sense for me to evaluate what is presented.
That said, it seems to be a bloody marvellous post, full of detail that
could only have been obtained from hours of poring over illegible and
unintelligible ancient documents.
Now for a couple of points, one even a mote, remembering always the beam
in mine own eye...
One of the more interesting late 14th-century marriages of a wealthy
noble widow to a younger man of lesser social standing turns out to be
the second marriage of Elizabeth, countess of Atholl. CP gives only
the name of her second husband - John Malewayn - and no further
information.
Elizabeth was the younger daughter of Henry de Ferrers, baron of
Groby, by his wife Isabel de Verdun. She was born in the mid 1330s,
and named for her maternal grandmother Elizabeth de Burgh, lady of
Clare.
But her mother was Isobel. And I have understood that Isobel and
Elizabeth were the same name?
<big snip of marvellous stuff>
At any rate, it's an interesting match - a countess to a merchant's
son - and predates the marriages of the Welsh London merchant Lewis
John to two different widowed noblewomen by a few decades.
There were, and indeed are, two features to a land-owner's life. He was
always short of money and the money-lenders were always after him or,
after his death, his heirs. So I am not surprised at these marriages,
much as they were rich city man to perhaps less cash-rich landowning
woman. A few years later in 1483 we have Maud Fraunceys marrying the
earl of Salisbury. It would be interesting to know when and how this
marrying practice developed and if it was caused by the short-term
convenience of throwing the money-lenders out of the country.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
.:Nichol:.
Re: John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Ath
Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote in message news:<c703b8174d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>...
Isabel and Elizabeth were derived from the Hebrew Elisheba, but Isabel
is the Spanish variant. The names were often (but not always)
interchangeable in the medieval period. In this case, Isabel de Verdun
was named for Queen Isabella, a friend of her mother's. Her younger
half-sister was Elizabeth d'Amory, named for their mother.
In message of 3 Dec, batruth@hotmail.com (Brad Verity) wrote:
Elizabeth was the younger daughter of Henry de Ferrers, baron of
Groby, by his wife Isabel de Verdun. She was born in the mid 1330s,
and named for her maternal grandmother Elizabeth de Burgh, lady of
Clare.
But her mother was Isobel. And I have understood that Isobel and
Elizabeth were the same name?
Isabel and Elizabeth were derived from the Hebrew Elisheba, but Isabel
is the Spanish variant. The names were often (but not always)
interchangeable in the medieval period. In this case, Isabel de Verdun
was named for Queen Isabella, a friend of her mother's. Her younger
half-sister was Elizabeth d'Amory, named for their mother.
-
Chris Phillips
Re: John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Ath
Brad Verity wrote:
CP i 309 note a quotes from her inquisition post mortem: "Et dicunt quod
Elizabetha et Philippa filie David de Strabolgi nuper Comitis Atholie
quondam viri prefate Elizabethe que fuit uxor Johannis Malwayn sunt filie et
propinquiores heredes predicte Elizabethe."
Taking this at face value, it would imply that there was no surviving issue
of her marriage to John Malewayn.
Chris Phillips
This unequal match was sadly short-lived. The countess died two years
later, in October 1375, aged about 40. Her young husband did not long
survive her. He last appears in Chancery Rolls in March 1377, when he
was ordered to fortify his Isle of Wight estates in case of a naval
invasion. He died later that spring, aged only 32, the writs of diem
clausit extremum for him being issued 19 June 1377. Sadly, no IPMs
appear to have survived, so it's not known if he and the countess of
Atholl had any issue.
CP i 309 note a quotes from her inquisition post mortem: "Et dicunt quod
Elizabetha et Philippa filie David de Strabolgi nuper Comitis Atholie
quondam viri prefate Elizabethe que fuit uxor Johannis Malwayn sunt filie et
propinquiores heredes predicte Elizabethe."
Taking this at face value, it would imply that there was no surviving issue
of her marriage to John Malewayn.
Chris Phillips
-
Gjest
Re: John Malewayn, 2nd Husband of Elizabeth, countess of Ath
Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
Thanks, Tim. Apologies for the long delay in replying. I moved to
Palm Springs, California, and have not had regular Internet access for
the past few weeks. And of course during that time, Google decided to
go and change their newsgroup format. I'm still getting used to the
new style, and its taking me a little longer to find things.
I didn't spend hours poring over illegible ancient documents, however.
It merely took research in the published (in modern English) Calendars
of IPMs and Patent, Close and Fine Rolls.
They were interchangeable in earlier centuries, but I think by the 14th
and 15th centuries, they became distinctive. I've yet to come across a
record that has Elizabeth, Lady of Clare, with the given name 'Isabel',
for instance. But again, I'm not examing original 14th century
documents, merely relying on translations.
Not sure how true this was for the countess of Atholl. The
Strathbogies did not have vast estates in England (and the Scottish
ones had become forever lost), but there would seem to be enough to
make her comfortable. Still, the fact that she was granted an annuity
four years before her husband died may be an indication of a cash-poor
countess. It's also possible she performed a function at court (such
as lady-in-waiting to queen Philippa) that warranted the annuity. I'm
longing for the day when Philippa gets the modern biography treatment
that English queens Eleanor of Provence, Eleanor of Castile and
Isabella of France have been given. Then we'll know exactly who were
ladies and damsels to her throughout the 40 years she was queen.
I think you meant 1383 for the earl of Salisbury/Maud Fraunceys
marriage (which I had forgotten about). I agree that a study of these
late 14th century merchant/nobility marriages would be interesting.
Cheers and Happy Holidays, ----Brad
Should I put in "Thank you for your good post"? On the whole no, it
would be patronsing of me as it pretends that I know enough of the
subject to be a judge of this contribution. On the contrary I know
so
little, that it makes no sense for me to evaluate what is presented.
That said, it seems to be a bloody marvellous post, full of detail
that
could only have been obtained from hours of poring over illegible and
unintelligible ancient documents.
Thanks, Tim. Apologies for the long delay in replying. I moved to
Palm Springs, California, and have not had regular Internet access for
the past few weeks. And of course during that time, Google decided to
go and change their newsgroup format. I'm still getting used to the
new style, and its taking me a little longer to find things.
I didn't spend hours poring over illegible ancient documents, however.
It merely took research in the published (in modern English) Calendars
of IPMs and Patent, Close and Fine Rolls.
Now for a couple of points, one even a mote, remembering always the
beam
in mine own eye...
But her mother was Isobel. And I have understood that Isobel and
Elizabeth were the same name?
They were interchangeable in earlier centuries, but I think by the 14th
and 15th centuries, they became distinctive. I've yet to come across a
record that has Elizabeth, Lady of Clare, with the given name 'Isabel',
for instance. But again, I'm not examing original 14th century
documents, merely relying on translations.
There were, and indeed are, two features to a land-owner's life. He
was
always short of money and the money-lenders were always after him or,
after his death, his heirs.
Not sure how true this was for the countess of Atholl. The
Strathbogies did not have vast estates in England (and the Scottish
ones had become forever lost), but there would seem to be enough to
make her comfortable. Still, the fact that she was granted an annuity
four years before her husband died may be an indication of a cash-poor
countess. It's also possible she performed a function at court (such
as lady-in-waiting to queen Philippa) that warranted the annuity. I'm
longing for the day when Philippa gets the modern biography treatment
that English queens Eleanor of Provence, Eleanor of Castile and
Isabella of France have been given. Then we'll know exactly who were
ladies and damsels to her throughout the 40 years she was queen.
So I am not surprised at these marriages,
much as they were rich city man to perhaps less cash-rich landowning
woman. A few years later in 1483 we have Maud Fraunceys marrying the
earl of Salisbury. It would be interesting to know when and how this
marrying practice developed and if it was caused by the short-term
convenience of throwing the money-lenders out of the country.
I think you meant 1383 for the earl of Salisbury/Maud Fraunceys
marriage (which I had forgotten about). I agree that a study of these
late 14th century merchant/nobility marriages would be interesting.
Cheers and Happy Holidays, ----Brad