Dear All:
According to Weiss (151-22) and ES III:676, Alice de Roucy, daughter
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu....
Does anyone know if the unsourced information is simply wrong or
whether she did marry twice?
Thanks in advance,
Roger
Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
"According to Weiss (151-22) and ES III:676, Alice de Roucy, daughter
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu...."
Well the Ancestral File agrees with Weiss and is probably derivative from that work. Interestingly it gives both Alice and Hildouin dying in 1063, but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
Will
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu...."
Well the Ancestral File agrees with Weiss and is probably derivative from that work. Interestingly it gives both Alice and Hildouin dying in 1063, but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
Will
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
ES III 676 (and 677) have quite a string of sources displayed. Could they
have the answer?
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
have the answer?
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
"According to Weiss (151-22) and ES III:676, Alice de Roucy, daughter
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu...."
Well the Ancestral File agrees with Weiss and is probably derivative from
that work. Interestingly it gives both Alice and Hildouin dying in 1063,
but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
Will
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
I think another ES Tafel may clean up this problem, at least a little 
ES III/4 729A This Tafel covers the Counts of Bar-sur-Aube and Soissons
In the fourth generations Nocher II Count of Bar-sur-Aube "could be" the
father of Renaud I Count of Soissons, he died 1057, no wife is displayed for
Renaud I and he has two children :
1.Guy II Count of Soissons also dies in 1057 not married, no children
2.Adele Countes of Soissons (died probably 1105) married in 1057/1059
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, and Count of Soissons.
No doubt, there are the Renaud I, Adele and William/Guillaume referred to.
Underneath Adele and Guillaume is a reference to ES VII Tafel 15.
The reduced version of that tafel is
Richard I, Duke of Normandy had an unnamed mistress and by her
was father of
Guillaume I Count d'Jiemois and Eu, married Lesceline
they are parents of
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, Count of Soissons, married Adele Countess
of Soissons.
They had five children
1. Renaud II, Count of Soissons 1082/1084 not married
2. Jean Count of Soissons, married his son married but died childless
3. Manasses, Bishop of Cambrai and Soissons
4. (Ramentrudis) who married Ives de Nesle
5.daughter
2.Jean was the father of Renaud III, Count of Soissons, who in 1141 becomes
a monk and passes the County of Soissons to Ives II de Nesle.
To find out who Ives II is we go to same ES Tafel 16
Ives de Nesle, married (Ramentrudis) de Soissons
parents of
Radulf, Seigneur de Nesle 1103/1125 married Rainarde
parents of
1.Ives II de Nesle who married Yolande of Hainault, inherited Soissons died
childless
3. Radulf de Nesle Viscount of Brugge, his first and then third son becomes
Count of Soissons
This part of the genealogy can be found on my website
http://www.genealogics.org with the appropriate secondary sources
references. Sadly, it is impossible for me to record the sources used in ES
Hope this helps.
Best wshes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
ES III/4 729A This Tafel covers the Counts of Bar-sur-Aube and Soissons
In the fourth generations Nocher II Count of Bar-sur-Aube "could be" the
father of Renaud I Count of Soissons, he died 1057, no wife is displayed for
Renaud I and he has two children :
1.Guy II Count of Soissons also dies in 1057 not married, no children
2.Adele Countes of Soissons (died probably 1105) married in 1057/1059
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, and Count of Soissons.
No doubt, there are the Renaud I, Adele and William/Guillaume referred to.
Underneath Adele and Guillaume is a reference to ES VII Tafel 15.
The reduced version of that tafel is
Richard I, Duke of Normandy had an unnamed mistress and by her
was father of
Guillaume I Count d'Jiemois and Eu, married Lesceline
they are parents of
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, Count of Soissons, married Adele Countess
of Soissons.
They had five children
1. Renaud II, Count of Soissons 1082/1084 not married
2. Jean Count of Soissons, married his son married but died childless
3. Manasses, Bishop of Cambrai and Soissons
4. (Ramentrudis) who married Ives de Nesle
5.daughter
2.Jean was the father of Renaud III, Count of Soissons, who in 1141 becomes
a monk and passes the County of Soissons to Ives II de Nesle.
To find out who Ives II is we go to same ES Tafel 16
Ives de Nesle, married (Ramentrudis) de Soissons
parents of
Radulf, Seigneur de Nesle 1103/1125 married Rainarde
parents of
1.Ives II de Nesle who married Yolande of Hainault, inherited Soissons died
childless
3. Radulf de Nesle Viscount of Brugge, his first and then third son becomes
Count of Soissons
This part of the genealogy can be found on my website
http://www.genealogics.org with the appropriate secondary sources
references. Sadly, it is impossible for me to record the sources used in ES
Best wshes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
"According to Weiss (151-22) and ES III:676, Alice de Roucy, daughter
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu...."
Well the Ancestral File agrees with Weiss and is probably derivative from
that work. Interestingly it gives both Alice and Hildouin dying in 1063,
but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
Will
-
Roger Tansey
Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
Thank you both for responding and a special thanks to Mr. Van de Pas
for the super website......
Best wishes,
Roger
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote in message news:<002401c4d266$8737e160$c3b4fea9@email>...
for the super website......
Best wishes,
Roger
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote in message news:<002401c4d266$8737e160$c3b4fea9@email>...
I think another ES Tafel may clean up this problem, at least a little
ES III/4 729A This Tafel covers the Counts of Bar-sur-Aube and Soissons
In the fourth generations Nocher II Count of Bar-sur-Aube "could be" the
father of Renaud I Count of Soissons, he died 1057, no wife is displayed for
Renaud I and he has two children :
1.Guy II Count of Soissons also dies in 1057 not married, no children
2.Adele Countes of Soissons (died probably 1105) married in 1057/1059
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, and Count of Soissons.
No doubt, there are the Renaud I, Adele and William/Guillaume referred to.
Underneath Adele and Guillaume is a reference to ES VII Tafel 15.
The reduced version of that tafel is
Richard I, Duke of Normandy had an unnamed mistress and by her
was father of
Guillaume I Count d'Jiemois and Eu, married Lesceline
they are parents of
Guillaume II Bussac, Count d'Eu, Count of Soissons, married Adele Countess
of Soissons.
They had five children
1. Renaud II, Count of Soissons 1082/1084 not married
2. Jean Count of Soissons, married his son married but died childless
3. Manasses, Bishop of Cambrai and Soissons
4. (Ramentrudis) who married Ives de Nesle
5.daughter
2.Jean was the father of Renaud III, Count of Soissons, who in 1141 becomes
a monk and passes the County of Soissons to Ives II de Nesle.
To find out who Ives II is we go to same ES Tafel 16
Ives de Nesle, married (Ramentrudis) de Soissons
parents of
Radulf, Seigneur de Nesle 1103/1125 married Rainarde
parents of
1.Ives II de Nesle who married Yolande of Hainault, inherited Soissons died
childless
3. Radulf de Nesle Viscount of Brugge, his first and then third son becomes
Count of Soissons
This part of the genealogy can be found on my website
http://www.genealogics.org with the appropriate secondary sources
references. Sadly, it is impossible for me to record the sources used in ESHope this helps.
Best wshes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Husband(s) of Alice de Roucy?
"According to Weiss (151-22) and ES III:676, Alice de Roucy, daughter
of Ebles I, Count de Roucy (d. 11 May 1033) & Beatrix of Hainault
married Hildouin IV, Count of Montdidier.
According to other (unsourced) information, she married Renaud I,
Count of Soissons (d. 1057), parents of Aelis de Soissons who married
William, Count of Troyes and of Eu...."
Well the Ancestral File agrees with Weiss and is probably derivative from
that work. Interestingly it gives both Alice and Hildouin dying in 1063,
but no deathplace or burial to indicate what source this might be from.
Will