CP - Another Turton mystery? - FitzGerald Cogan

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Leo van de Pas

CP - Another Turton mystery? - FitzGerald Cogan

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 23 nov 2004 02:31:01

The Complete Paaerage Volume X page 15
Here we find Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly, "he is said to have married Juliane."
Volume XIV does not add or change anything to this.

Burke's Peerage 1999 page 1679 "he allegedly married Juliane".

Turton on page 137 makes Juliane to be Juliane de Cogan, daughter of Sir John de Cogan and Marie Prendergast. The Cogans will lead to Gerald of Windsor and his wife Nest of Wales, mistress of Henry I, King of England.

Marlyn Lewis, in "The Ancestry of Elizabeth of York"
700 = Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly
701 = Juliana de Cogan

Does anyone know a source which establishes that "allegedly Juliane" is the same person as Juliana de Cogan?


Juliane may have interesting ancestors, but she certainly has interesting descendants, here are a few of her Gateway Ancestor Descendants

Robert Abel III
John Alston
William Asfordby
Anne Batt
Essex Beville
Capt. James Blount
Elizabeth Bosvile
Col. Giles Brent
Margaret Brent
Charles Calvert, 3rd Lord Baltimore
Edward Carleton
Capt. Francis Champernoun
Kenelm Cheseldyne
William Clopton
Mary Drake
Anne Dudley
Rev. Samuel Dudley
Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord Fairfax
John Fenwicj
Elizabeth Hagburne
Elizabeth Harleston
Jane Haviland
Edward Hutchinson
Hon. Edmund Jennings
Joseph Kirkbride
Mary Launce
Samuel Levis
Judith Lewis
Mary Lewis
Bridget Lisle
Nathaniel Littleton
Gov. Thomas Lloyd
Anne Marbury
Catherine Marbury
Anne Mauleverer
John Nelson
Capt, Philip Nelson
Thomas Nelson
Dr. Richard Palgrave
Herbert Pelham
Hon. George Percy
Robert Peyton
William Randolph
Edward Raynsford
Charles Rodes
Richard Saltonstall
Maj. Nicholas Sewall
Sir Grey Skipwith, 4th Bart.
Maria Johanna Somerset
Nicholas Spencer
William Strother
William Tryon
George Yate

And many more.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Stewart Baldwin

Re: CP - Another Turton mystery? - FitzGerald Cogan

Legg inn av Stewart Baldwin » 26 nov 2004 05:02:45

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27:21 +0000 (UTC), leovdpas@netspeed.com.au
("Leo van de Pas") wrote:

The Complete Paaerage Volume X page 15
Here we find Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly,
"he is said to have married Juliane."
Volume XIV does not add or change anything to this.

Burke's Peerage 1999 page 1679 "he allegedly
married Juliane".

Turton on page 137 makes Juliane to be Juliane de Cogan,
daughter of Sir John de Cogan and Marie Prendergast.
The Cogans will lead to Gerald of Windsor and his wife
Nest of Wales, mistress of Henry I, King of England.

Marlyn Lewis, in "The Ancestry of Elizabeth of York"
700 = Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly
701 = Juliana de Cogan

Does anyone know a source which establishes that
"allegedly Juliane" is the same person as
Juliana de Cogan?

[snip]

Turton is not a very good source for something like this, and Lewis is
even less reliable. However, a close examination of Turton will
sometimes reveal the source of his information, and give you another
place to look.

Stewart Baldwin

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: CP - Another Turton mystery? - FitzGerald Cogan

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 26 nov 2004 11:23:30

In message of 23 Nov, leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:

The Complete Peerage Volume X page 15 Here we find Maurice
FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly, "he is said to have married Juliane."
Volume XIV does not add or change anything to this.

Burke's Peerage 1999 page 1679 "he allegedly married Juliane".

Turton on page 137 makes Juliane to be Juliane de Cogan, daughter of
Sir John de Cogan and Marie Prendergast. The Cogans will lead to
Gerald of Windsor and his wife Nest of Wales, mistress of Henry I,
King of England.

Marlyn Lewis, in "The Ancestry of Elizabeth of York"
700 = Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Lord Offaly
701 = Juliana de Cogan

Does anyone know a source which establishes that "allegedly Juliane"
is the same person as Juliana de Cogan?

She was included in the article in the first edition of DNB so the new
second Oxford DNB might give some more information.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Stewart Baldwin

Re: CP - Another Turton mystery? - FitzGerald Cogan

Legg inn av Stewart Baldwin » 26 nov 2004 18:06:14

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:23:30 GMT, Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org>
wrote:

Does anyone know a source which establishes that "allegedly Juliane"
is the same person as Juliana de Cogan?

She was included in the article in the first edition of DNB so the new
second Oxford DNB might give some more information.

More specifically, it states that "According to the later genealogists
(Earls of Kildare, p. 15), Fitzgerald's wife was Juliana, daughter of
John de Cogan." (vol. 7, pp. 138-9). Thus we not only get DNB's
source for this statement, but we learn that the author was apparently
unaware of any early source for the statement. This source is "The
Earls of Kildare and their Ancestors: from 1057 to 1773" by the
Marquis of Kildare (Dublin 1858). I had made copies from this work
because it is one of the sources naming Alice de Montgomery as the
wife of an earlier Maurice Fitzgerald, but unfortunately the copies I
made only go from pages 4 to 11. However, this book is available at
the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, so maybe somebody there
could check to see if it provides a further source.

Stewart Baldwin

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