Sorry to have to reply in a different post, but the newsgroup server I
post on seems to have erased the thread, but I saw the replies on a
different medium.
First of all, WJhonson, I am about sick and tired of reading your
tactless responses to my messages and the messages of many others as
well. Would it kill you to treat people with a little respect? We're
kind enough to respond to your messages, but it's getting out of hand.
Once again, you have not researched something before you spoke.
Jason, the ambassador, was the son of Eleazar:
In Josephus 12 Chapter 10:6 we read "He therefore sent to Rome some of
his friends, Eupolemus the son of John, and Jason the son of Eleazar,
and by them desired the Romans that they would assist them, and be
their friends, and would write to Demetrius that he would not fight
against the Jews."
Antipater, also an ambassador, was the son of Jason:
In Josephus 13 Chapter 5:8 we read "But since we have now overcome our
enemies, and have occasion to send Numenius the son of Antiochus, and
Antipater the son of Jason, who are both honorable men belonging to
our senate, to the Romans, we gave them this epistle to you also, that
they might renew that friendship which is between us."
1 Maccabees 12:26 we read "For this cause we chose Numenius the son of
Antiochus, and Antipater the son of Jason, and sent them unto the
Romans, to renew the amity that we had with them, and the former
league."
Herod was a Jew:
In Josephus 20 Chapter 8:7 we read "for the Jews claimed the
pre-eminence, because Herod their king was the builder of Cesarea, and
because he was by birth a Jew."
The legend that Antipater I was kidnaped by the Idumaeans may be
false. It doesn't seem to be verified by the ancient sources. Idumaea
was in fact conquered by Hasmonaean King John Hyrcanus I. It was
Hasmonaean King Alexander Jannaeus who appointed Antipater I as
Governor of Idumaea, so it is my theory that he remained in Judea
until his appointment, after which he may have taken a Idumaean wife.
Matthew
The Herodians were Hasmonaeans 2
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans 2
In a message dated 11/20/2004 1:24:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com writes:
However Antipater the son of Jason was NOT "Antipater" the father of Herod.
Address directly my quote from Josephus where he says categorically that
Herod was NOT a Jew by descent. By birth a Jew does not mean by descent a Jew.
Does it strike you to wonder exactly why Josephus says it quite this way?
And I'm just as sick of people making up relationships that are fictional
and without proper documentation, in fact with direct, counter-documentation.
So get off your high horse. And have a nice day!!
Will
matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com writes:
Herod was a Jew:
In Josephus 20 Chapter 8:7 we read "for the Jews claimed the
pre-eminence, because Herod their king was the builder of Cesarea, and
because he was by birth a Jew."
However Antipater the son of Jason was NOT "Antipater" the father of Herod.
Address directly my quote from Josephus where he says categorically that
Herod was NOT a Jew by descent. By birth a Jew does not mean by descent a Jew.
Does it strike you to wonder exactly why Josephus says it quite this way?
And I'm just as sick of people making up relationships that are fictional
and without proper documentation, in fact with direct, counter-documentation.
So get off your high horse. And have a nice day!!
Will
-
Matthew Rockefeller
Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans 2
This is my last post on this matter, period. You are trying to change
the wording and make sense out of nonsense, it's really sad.
Does it strike me to wonder exactly why he said it that way?
That's a perfectly sane way to say it. It's means what it says. Stop
trying to make it saying something it doesn't say. If it does not fit
you must acquit.
If you continue on this rampage of rudeness I'll just stop responding
to you altogether. You've been rude to everyone here and I haven't
seen you contribute anything. All you do is make uninformed comments,
because you haven't researched something before you post. Just like
with High Priest Jeshua III. la la IF he existed, then you go out and
prove me right when you finally take the time to read. Don't act like
you know everything, especially when you haven't even researched a
topic.
The End
Matthew
the wording and make sense out of nonsense, it's really sad.
Does it strike me to wonder exactly why he said it that way?
That's a perfectly sane way to say it. It's means what it says. Stop
trying to make it saying something it doesn't say. If it does not fit
you must acquit.
If you continue on this rampage of rudeness I'll just stop responding
to you altogether. You've been rude to everyone here and I haven't
seen you contribute anything. All you do is make uninformed comments,
because you haven't researched something before you post. Just like
with High Priest Jeshua III. la la IF he existed, then you go out and
prove me right when you finally take the time to read. Don't act like
you know everything, especially when you haven't even researched a
topic.
The End
Matthew
However Antipater the son of Jason was NOT "Antipater" the father of Herod.
Address directly my quote from Josephus where he says categorically that
Herod was NOT a Jew by descent. By birth a Jew does not mean by descent a Jew.
Does it strike you to wonder exactly why Josephus says it quite this way?
And I'm just as sick of people making up relationships that are fictional
and without proper documentation, in fact with direct, counter-documentation.
So get off your high horse. And have a nice day!!
Will
-
Gjest
Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans 2
In a message dated 11/21/2004 3:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com writes:
This is my last post on this matter, period
Well, it's about time.
Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas
matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com writes:
This is my last post on this matter, period
Well, it's about time.
Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas
-
Gjest
Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans 2
"This is my last post on this matter, period. You are trying to change the wording and make sense out of nonsense, it's really sad. Does it strike me to wonder exactly why he said it that way? That's a perfectly sane way to say it. It's means what it says. Stop trying to make it saying something it doesn't say. If it does not fit you must acquit."
If you actually READ Josephus' Antiquities than you would KNOW that the Iduamaeans were converted. This conversion happened prior to Herod the Great's birth and so he "was born a Jew" i.e. he was circumcized and followed the Law, etc. It does not mean that he was descended through any Jewish line prior to this conversion of his entire "people/nation".
Your lack of grounding in the subject just shows that you are merely doing a third-rate cut-and-paste job off someone else who has a specific axe to grind. Your "appeal to authority" only works for people ignorant of the facts. If anything is sad, it's that. You post "facts", from documents that disprove what you say, and are easily ripped to shreds by anyone who takes the time to truly understand the source.
All your posturing and blustering doesn't cover over this fundamental error. Sorry.
Will
If you actually READ Josephus' Antiquities than you would KNOW that the Iduamaeans were converted. This conversion happened prior to Herod the Great's birth and so he "was born a Jew" i.e. he was circumcized and followed the Law, etc. It does not mean that he was descended through any Jewish line prior to this conversion of his entire "people/nation".
Your lack of grounding in the subject just shows that you are merely doing a third-rate cut-and-paste job off someone else who has a specific axe to grind. Your "appeal to authority" only works for people ignorant of the facts. If anything is sad, it's that. You post "facts", from documents that disprove what you say, and are easily ripped to shreds by anyone who takes the time to truly understand the source.
All your posturing and blustering doesn't cover over this fundamental error. Sorry.
Will