FW: Re: FW: Re: Jesus, his brother and his nephew

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John Parsons

FW: Re: FW: Re: Jesus, his brother and his nephew

Legg inn av John Parsons » 20 nov 2004 17:01:02

The Talmud is of undoubted historical value, but it does not fall within the
meanings of the term "Gospel genealogies," which restricts the comment
quoted below to the NT. Both the 'Luke' and 'Matthew' genealogies purport
to be Joseph's male-line descent from Abraham ('Matthew') and from Adam
('Luke'), both through David.

The NT identifies neither of Mary's parents. Christian churches have not
historically accepted the Talmudic testimony: if Christian sources do speak
of Mary's parents, the names Joachim and Anna are commonly used. The names
are from uncanonical sources and are regarded as traditional; the Catholic
Church commemorates both Joachim and Anna as saints. Protestant churches
reject the historical existence of either Joachim or Anna as Mary's parents.

Regards

John P.


From: matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com (Matthew Rockefeller)
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: FW: Re: Jesus, his brother and his nephew
Date: 19 Nov 2004 22:30:50 -0800

Precisely. Both Gospel genealogies for Joseph are (like all Biblical
genealogies, OT and NT) only through the male line. It's impossible for
Joseph to have had TWO different male-line descents from David--so one
of
the two must be in some way false, whether by fabrication or by error.


Mary was the daughter of Heli, and Joseph the son of Jacob. One
lineage is Joseph and the other Mary's. The Jerusalem Talmud Chagigah
77:4 mentions Mary the daughter of Heli in a very, very negative
light.

Matthew

JG

Re: Re: FW: Re: Jesus, his brother and his nephew

Legg inn av JG » 21 nov 2004 18:23:56

The genealogy of Christ as related in Matthew 1:2-16 is his paternal
ancestry, or the line of his step-father Joseph thru Abraham. The genealogy
given in Luke 3:23-38 is that of Christ's mother, Mary.

Hard for people in our politically correct era of today to understand that
the man, Joseph, as the head of the household and the head of the woman, had
a legal right to claim her inheritance (in other words, this substituting of
Joseph as the son of Heli was the same legally as the fact he was the
son-in-law of Heli). In ancient Hebrew literature, this was a common device,
since the man had a right of possession of all the woman had.

(As a note: the Hebrews assigned definite rights to women too...unlike many
of their kindred and surrounding folk).

This interpretation of the two genealogies has been the accepted conclusion
of Biblical scholars "from the beginning" (!!!).

Regards

JG

""John Parsons"" <carmi47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:BAY7-F182DB7A4D936290755A127B2C40@phx.gbl...
The Talmud is of undoubted historical value, but it does not fall within
the
meanings of the term "Gospel genealogies," which restricts the comment
quoted below to the NT. Both the 'Luke' and 'Matthew' genealogies purport
to be Joseph's male-line descent from Abraham ('Matthew') and from Adam
('Luke'), both through David.

The NT identifies neither of Mary's parents. Christian churches have not
historically accepted the Talmudic testimony: if Christian sources do
speak
of Mary's parents, the names Joachim and Anna are commonly used. The
names
are from uncanonical sources and are regarded as traditional; the Catholic
Church commemorates both Joachim and Anna as saints. Protestant churches
reject the historical existence of either Joachim or Anna as Mary's
parents.

Regards

John P.


From: matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com (Matthew Rockefeller)
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: FW: Re: Jesus, his brother and his nephew
Date: 19 Nov 2004 22:30:50 -0800

Precisely. Both Gospel genealogies for Joseph are (like all Biblical
genealogies, OT and NT) only through the male line. It's impossible
for
Joseph to have had TWO different male-line descents from David--so one
of
the two must be in some way false, whether by fabrication or by error.


Mary was the daughter of Heli, and Joseph the son of Jacob. One
lineage is Joseph and the other Mary's. The Jerusalem Talmud Chagigah
77:4 mentions Mary the daughter of Heli in a very, very negative
light.

Matthew


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