[OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

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John Parsons

[OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av John Parsons » 20 nov 2004 13:11:01

This is most emphatically OT, but I have to draw the line when anybody tries
to tell me what I meant to say. One last comment on sheep:

(1) The reproductive habits of sheep are part of their immemorial existence
as a species & have not changed since Jesus' time.

(2) Ewes always lamb in the spring.

(3) Ewes almost invariably lamb at night. Shepherds/farmers who spent their
lives working w/sheep would know this as a matter of course. Since most
husbandmen in Jesus' time followed their fathers' occupations, fathers or
grandfathers would pass on such knowledge to sons or grandsons by word of
mouth.

(4) To debate the existence of sheepfolds in the Holy Land in Jesus' day is
immaterial to the case under discussion. It is likely that sheepfolds, or at
least fenced enclosures, were used by shepherds/ farmers to protect their
animals at night--*except during lambing season.* Shepherds/farmers know
that all ewes lamb at the same time of year & the animals are allowed to do
so in open fields. This is common practice, knowledge born of millennia of
experience of the animals' reproductive habits. Allowing ewes to lamb
inside a fold or in a fenced enclosure, i.e. in a crowd of other animals,
poses the danger of having newborns trampled. Given the nervousness of
sheep as a species (see [4] below), moreover, ewes are allowed to lamb in
isolated privacy in the fields.

(4) Ewes are more skittish than, say, mares or cows & more prone to abandon
their newborn. This again is a tendency peculiar to the species, and
shepherds/farmers who work w/sheep know it as a matter of course. Hence
shepherds/farmers know to be up & about in the fields at night in lambing
season so they can rescue abandoned newborn.

All of which suggests that if at the time of Jesus' birth there *really
were* shepherds abiding in the fields watching over their flocks by night,
he would have been born in the spring.

Of course it is entirely possible that 'Luke' introduced the shepherds
merely to create an opening for the angelic birth announcement to some of
the most humble members of society. In that sense, at least, I concur that
no absolute proof exists that Jesus was born in the spring.

Regards

John P.

Gjest

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2004 18:31:02

In a message dated 11/20/2004 7:03:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
carmi47@msn.com writes:

(1) The reproductive habits of sheep are part of their immemorial existence
as a species & have not changed since Jesus' time.

(2) Ewes always lamb in the spring.




Yep, you have both of these ideas correct. Unfortunately you have forgotten
or ignored the fact that wolves, lions and other predators eat all year
long, and they would just as soon eat a full grown sheep as a lamb. The
shepherds mentioned in the Biblical myth were perhaps uneducated by today's standards
but they weren't stupid. They sat out there all year long the protect ALL
the sheep, not just the new born lamb.

Why don't you start a Bible Myth site, or a sheep site or some sort of site
and take this BS off this medieval genealogy site.

I have tolerated long enough having more than half of my emails subjects
such an OT item. As of now I will respond insultingly to each and every such
message. Stop it, damn it.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Gjest

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2004 19:21:01

In a message dated 11/20/2004 4:03:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
carmi47@msn.com writes:

(1) The reproductive habits of sheep are part of their immemorial existence

as a species &have not changed since Jesus' time.


irrelevant

(2) Ewes always lamb in the spring.


irrelevant

(3) Ewes almost invariably lamb at night. Shepherds/farmers who spent their

lives working w/sheep would know this as a matter of course. Since most
husbandmen in Jesus' time followed their fathers' occupations, fathers or
grandfathers would pass on such knowledge to sons or grandsons by word of
mouth.


irrelevant

(4) To debate the existence of sheepfolds in the Holy Land in Jesus' day is
immaterial to the case under discussion. It is likely that sheepfolds, or at

least fenced enclosures, were used by shepherds/ farmers to protect their
animals at night--*except during lambing season.* Shepherds/farmers know
that all ewes lamb at the same time of year &the animals are allowed to do
so in open fields. This is common practice, knowledge born of millennia of
experience of the animals' reproductive habits. Allowing ewes to lamb
inside a fold or in a fenced enclosure, i.e. in a crowd of other animals,
poses the danger of having newborns trampled. Given the nervousness of
sheep as a species (see [4] below), moreover, ewes are allowed to lamb in
isolated privacy in the fields.


You know no such thing and merely spouting off at greater length does not
prove anything except to those who believe in filibustering. If you have any
PROOF of the COMMON existence of sheepfolds for ALL persons of this time period
than display it. Otherwise you're just so dead-set in your preconceived notion
that you can't see that most shepherds were quite poor. They simply didn't
have nor did they need sheepfolds. I don't think they get much snow in
Palestine these days.

(4) Ewes are more skittish than, say, mares or cows &more prone to abandon
their newborn. This again is a tendency peculiar to the species, and
shepherds/farmers who work w/sheep know it as a matter of course. Hence
shepherds/farmers know to be up &about in the fields at night in lambing
season so they can rescue abandoned newborn.

irrelevant

Your argument is circular. You say it must be Spring because the shepherds
were abiding with their flocks and then you spout on at tireless length about
WHEN sheep have lambs which is completely circular. Go back to debate 101, you
are illogical.
Will

Terry

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Terry » 21 nov 2004 00:21:01

You first!
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: <GRHaleJr@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew


In a message dated 11/20/2004 7:03:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
carmi47@msn.com writes:

(1) The reproductive habits of sheep are part of their immemorial
existence
as a species & have not changed since Jesus' time.

(2) Ewes always lamb in the spring.




Yep, you have both of these ideas correct. Unfortunately you have
forgotten
or ignored the fact that wolves, lions and other predators eat all year
long, and they would just as soon eat a full grown sheep as a lamb. The
shepherds mentioned in the Biblical myth were perhaps uneducated by
today's standards
but they weren't stupid. They sat out there all year long the protect
ALL
the sheep, not just the new born lamb.

Why don't you start a Bible Myth site, or a sheep site or some sort of
site
and take this BS off this medieval genealogy site.

I have tolerated long enough having more than half of my emails subjects
such an OT item. As of now I will respond insultingly to each and every
such
message. Stop it, damn it.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas



Gjest

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 nov 2004 00:51:02

In a message dated 11/20/2004 6:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

You first!
Terry



I didn't start it, I won't be the first to stop., Let the mythology freaks
stop first.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Terry

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Terry » 21 nov 2004 03:01:01

Now that sounds all grown up to me.
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: <GRHaleJr@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew


In a message dated 11/20/2004 6:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

You first!
Terry



I didn't start it, I won't be the first to stop., Let the mythology
freaks
stop first.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas



Gjest

Re: [OT]: Jesus, his brother & nephew

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 nov 2004 04:01:01

In a message dated 11/20/2004 8:53:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

Now that sounds all grown up to me.
Terry




Being grown up is taking your personal beliefs in some mythological Christ
to a private male message rather than attempting to pound it into the study of
genealogy.

Your silly remark is something that first grade teachers might use. It
didn't work then and it won't work now. If you let idiots run over you without
resisting you deserve the horror you live in. I have always and will always
resist.
'
Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

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