The Herodians were Hasmonaeans

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Matthew Rockefeller

The Herodians were Hasmonaeans

Legg inn av Matthew Rockefeller » 20 nov 2004 07:43:53

A few posts have mentioned how Herod the Great was trying to rid
himself of the Hasmonaean heirs, but he in fact was a Hasmonaean
cousin himself, which is clearly demonstrated for those who have read
Josephus. His line is as follow, and his Armenian descendants included
for someone who mentioned it in a post.

Mattathias ben Johanan, Priest (ca 225 BC – 165 BC), he revolted after
the Seleucid Emperor Antiochus IV Epiphanies forbade the Jewish
religion and said that altars for the Greek gods should be set up
instead, he killed a royal officer and a Jew who got in his way of
revolting and he and his followers fled to the mountains where they
went on to lead a rebellion which they later won, he soon died
afterward being of old age and his son Judas Maccabee took control of
the revolt

Eleazar "Avaran" (ca 200 BC – 163 BC)

Jason, Judaic Ambassador to Rome (ca 180 BC – uncertain)

Antipater I, Governor of Idumaea (ca 145 BC – 76 BC), kidnaped as a
youth by the Idumaeans

Antipater II, Governor of Judea (ca 110 BC – 43 BC) = Cypros I of
Arabia

Herod the Great, King of Judea (73 BC – 4 BC) = Mariamme I Hasmonaean
(d 29 BC), daughter of Alexander II Hasmonaean, King of Judea &
Alexandra II Hasmonaean, Queen of Judea

Alexander IV, Prince of Judea (ca 36 BC – 7 BC) = Glaphyra IV,
daughter of Archelaus IV Philopatris, King of Cappadocia & Pythadoris,
Princess of Tralles

Alexander VI, Prince of Judea, Prince of Armenia (ca 10 BC – 26),
younger brother of the childless Tigranes V who was appointed King of
Armenia by Emperor Nero

Gaius Julius Tigranes VI, King of Armenia (ca 25 – 62) = Julia,
daughter of Herod IV, King of Chalcis & Berenice III, Princess of
Judea who was the mistress of Emperor Titus

Gaius Julius Alexander IV, King of Cilicia, Consul of Rome (ca 60 –
after 108), he had a long reign as was attested as being king 105 and
consul in 108 = Julia Iotape VII, daughter of Gaius Julius Antiochus
IV Epiphanies, King of Commagene & Julia Iotape VI Philadelphos,
Princess of Commagene, they had descendants

Matthew

Gjest

Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2004 19:41:01

In a message dated 11/19/2004 10:54:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com writes:

Eleazar "Avaran" (ca 200 BC – 163 BC)

Jason, Judaic Ambassador to Rome (ca 180 BC – uncertain)

Antipater I, Governor of Idumaea (ca 145 BC – 76 BC), kidnaped as a
youth by the Idumaeans

Antipater II, Governor of Judea (ca 110 BC – 43 BC) = Cypros I of
Arabia

Herod the Great, King of Judea (73 BC – 4 BC) = Mariamme I Hasmonaean

Josephus says no such thing. It is true that Herod was the son of Antipater
who was made governor of Judea. His father was also named Antipater, but I'm
sure you can find a citation that he was "Governor of Idumaea" whatever that
is supposed to mean.
And it's completely fallacious that this person was a descendent of the
Maccabeans.
Will

Francisco Antonio Doria

Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans

Legg inn av Francisco Antonio Doria » 20 nov 2004 19:51:01

A. R. Wagner seems to doubt it.

fa

--- Matthew Rockefeller
<matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com> escreveu:
A few posts have mentioned how Herod the Great was
trying to rid
himself of the Hasmonaean heirs, but he in fact was
a Hasmonaean
cousin himself, which is clearly demonstrated for
those who have read
Josephus. His line is as follow, and his Armenian
descendants included
for someone who mentioned it in a post.

Mattathias ben Johanan, Priest (ca 225 BC – 165 BC),
he revolted after
the Seleucid Emperor Antiochus IV Epiphanies forbade
the Jewish
religion and said that altars for the Greek gods
should be set up
instead, he killed a royal officer and a Jew who got
in his way of
revolting and he and his followers fled to the
mountains where they
went on to lead a rebellion which they later won, he
soon died
afterward being of old age and his son Judas
Maccabee took control of
the revolt

Eleazar "Avaran" (ca 200 BC – 163 BC)

Jason, Judaic Ambassador to Rome (ca 180 BC –
uncertain)

Antipater I, Governor of Idumaea (ca 145 BC – 76
BC), kidnaped as a
youth by the Idumaeans

Antipater II, Governor of Judea (ca 110 BC – 43 BC)
= Cypros I of
Arabia

Herod the Great, King of Judea (73 BC – 4 BC) =
Mariamme I Hasmonaean
(d 29 BC), daughter of Alexander II Hasmonaean, King
of Judea &
Alexandra II Hasmonaean, Queen of Judea

Alexander IV, Prince of Judea (ca 36 BC – 7 BC) =
Glaphyra IV,
daughter of Archelaus IV Philopatris, King of
Cappadocia & Pythadoris,
Princess of Tralles

Alexander VI, Prince of Judea, Prince of Armenia (ca
10 BC – 26),
younger brother of the childless Tigranes V who was
appointed King of
Armenia by Emperor Nero

Gaius Julius Tigranes VI, King of Armenia (ca 25 –
62) = Julia,
daughter of Herod IV, King of Chalcis & Berenice
III, Princess of
Judea who was the mistress of Emperor Titus

Gaius Julius Alexander IV, King of Cilicia, Consul
of Rome (ca 60 –
after 108), he had a long reign as was attested as
being king 105 and
consul in 108 = Julia Iotape VII, daughter of Gaius
Julius Antiochus
IV Epiphanies, King of Commagene & Julia Iotape VI
Philadelphos,
Princess of Commagene, they had descendants

Matthew







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Gjest

Re: The Herodians were Hasmonaeans

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2004 20:21:02

Eleazar "Avaran" (ca 200 BC – 163 BC)

Jason, Judaic Ambassador to Rome (ca 180 BC – uncertain)

Antipater I, Governor of Idumaea (ca 145 BC – 76 BC), kidnaped as a
youth by the Idumaeans

Antipater II, Governor of Judea (ca 110 BC – 43 BC) = Cypros I of
Arabia

Herod the Great, King of Judea (73 BC – 4 BC) = Mariamme I Hasmonaean

Let me help you out here with your source quotation.
Josephus, "Antiquities of the Jews" Book XIV
Chapter 1
"3. But there was a certain friend of Hyrcanus, an Idumean, called Antipater,
who was very rich, and in his nature an active and a seditious man; who was
at enmity with Aristobulus, and had differences with him on account of his
good-will to Hyrcanus. It is true that Nicolatls of Damascus says, that Antipater
was of the stock of the principal Jews who came out of Babylon into Judea; but
that assertion of his was to gratify Herod, who was his son...."

Perhaps this will kill this claim. Not only does Josephus say Herod was not
a Hasmonaean, but he says he wasn't even a Jew of any stripe.
Will

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