Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage, Volume 9, page 610, note d, states that "the coheirs
[of Anne, suo jure Countess of Norfolk (d. 1481)] were the
representatives of her great-grand-aunts, the two daughters of Thomas
(de Mowbray), 1st Duke of Norfolk, whose seniority is not certainly
known: Margaret, who married Sir Robert Howard, by whom she was mother
of John, Lord Howard, cr. in 1483, Duke of Norfolk [and Isabel]."
There has been much discussion on the newsgroup as to the marriage
date of Margaret Mowbray and Sir Robert Howard. Mr. Howard of Corby's
Memorials alleges that this couple were married about 1419. This
estimate is doubtless in error. Margaret was clearly unmarried on 13
September 1420, when she was mentioned in the will of her step-father,
Gerard Usflete (special thanks go to Chris Phillips for providing a
translation of the Latin text of this will). And, a communication to
the newsgroup by the noted historian, Anne Crawford, relayed by David
Mowbray, indicates that an account roll of Margaret's brother dated
1420-1 indicates that Margaret was still unmarried as of that date.
Yet another record which indicates that Margaret Mowbray was unmarried
in 1421 is an account of the coronation banquet of Queen Katherine of
France, wife of King Henry V of England, which event took place 21
February 1420/1. Margaret's presence at the banquet is noted in a
contemporary chronicle, where she is styled "Dame Margarete the dukys
doughter of Northefolke and suster to the Erle Marchalle" [Reference:
Gregory's Chronicle in Historical Collections of a London Citizen, ed.
by J. Gairdner (Camden Soc. n.s. 17) (1876): 140]. Since no mention
is made of a husband on this occasion, it seems obvious that Margaret
Mowbray was still unmarried as of 21 February 1420/1.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
Marriage Date of Margaret Mowbray and Robert Howard
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Brad Verity
Re: Marriage Date of Margaret Mowbray and Robert Howard
Douglas Richardson wrote:
I had the opportunity to discuss this topic with Anne Crawford at the
Triennial Research Conference of the Richard III Society at Queen's
College, Cambridge. Ms. Crawford gave a wonderful presentation on the
Howards in which she discussed the marriage in detail.
Margaret Mowbray was definitely the youngest child of the 1st Duke of
Norfolk and his wife Elizabeth of Arundel. Early in 1420, she was
chosen - no doubt due to her suitable age and unmarried status - to be
a lady-in-waiting to new Queen Katherine of Valois, and went to France
to join her household there. This is why she is stated to be overseas
and not in England in the will of her stepfather Gerard Usflete, dated
September 1420.
She returned to England with new queen Katherine in early 1421, as the
entry that Douglas found below states.
Margaret was born in the late 1390s, and so was in her early-to-mid
twenties in 1421. Ms. Crawford feels its possible that Margaret
refused a marriage that her mother and/or brother tried to arrange for
her. She found a letter, which she has been unable yet to precisely
date, from Elizabeth, duchess of Norfolk, to her son John, where
Elizabeth refuses to pay for Margaret's upkeep, and states that John
should do so, or the king himself. This may be nothing more than part
of a larger quarrel the duchess had with her son over money, or it may
be indicative of displeasure on the duchess's part toward her daughter.
Ms. Crawford feels the marriage of Margaret to Sir Robert Howard took
place about 1422. She could find no definite evidence that Robert was
a member of the household of Margaret's brother the earl of Norfolk,
but there is much circumstantial evidence to place him there. She also
feels, due to Margaret and Robert's ages, that they likely chose each
other, rather than the match being arranged. The earl of Norfolk, fond
of Howard, agreed to it, as it was also a way to not have to pay for
his sister's upkeep. Ms. Crawford feels that the fact that Margaret's
two elder sisters, Elizabeth and Isabel, were given manors at their
marriages, and Margaret did not receive any, also is evidence that
Margaret likely chose her own husband and received a cash maritagium.
On a related note, Henry Howard, younger brother of Sir Robert Howard,
was murdered by servants of Lord Scrope of Bolton in 1446, but Ms.
Crawford has not yet discovered the reasons behind this act.
And Catherine Howard, younger daughter of Robert and Margaret, had
quite interesting circumstances surrounding her own marriage. She was
likely a goddaughter of Katherine Neville, duchess of Norfolk, wife of
Margaret's brother, and was placed in the household of her aunt at a
young age. There, she met Edward Nevill, Lord Abergavenny, youngest
brother of the duchess, and allowed herself to be seduced by him while
his wife, Elizabeth Beauchamp of Abergavenny, was still alive. Young
Catherine Howard was very lucky that after Lady Abergavenny's death,
Edward Nevill did the right thing and married his young mistress. This
is how Catherine came to make such a grander match than her elder
sister Margaret, and indeed grander than that of her brother John
Howard (later 1st duke of Norfolk). Ms. Crawford likes to think of
Catherine as the 15th-century predecessor laying the groundwork for the
exploits of her famous Tudor nieces Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.
Hope this is of interest,
Cheers, ------Brad
There has been much discussion on the newsgroup as to the marriage
date of Margaret Mowbray and Sir Robert Howard. Mr. Howard of
Corby's
Memorials alleges that this couple were married about 1419. This
estimate is doubtless in error. Margaret was clearly unmarried on 13
September 1420, when she was mentioned in the will of her
step-father,
Gerard Usflete (special thanks go to Chris Phillips for providing a
translation of the Latin text of this will). And, a communication to
the newsgroup by the noted historian, Anne Crawford, relayed by David
Mowbray, indicates that an account roll of Margaret's brother dated
1420-1 indicates that Margaret was still unmarried as of that date.
I had the opportunity to discuss this topic with Anne Crawford at the
Triennial Research Conference of the Richard III Society at Queen's
College, Cambridge. Ms. Crawford gave a wonderful presentation on the
Howards in which she discussed the marriage in detail.
Margaret Mowbray was definitely the youngest child of the 1st Duke of
Norfolk and his wife Elizabeth of Arundel. Early in 1420, she was
chosen - no doubt due to her suitable age and unmarried status - to be
a lady-in-waiting to new Queen Katherine of Valois, and went to France
to join her household there. This is why she is stated to be overseas
and not in England in the will of her stepfather Gerard Usflete, dated
September 1420.
She returned to England with new queen Katherine in early 1421, as the
entry that Douglas found below states.
Yet another record which indicates that Margaret Mowbray was
unmarried
in 1421 is an account of the coronation banquet of Queen Katherine of
France, wife of King Henry V of England, which event took place 21
February 1420/1. Margaret's presence at the banquet is noted in a
contemporary chronicle, where she is styled "Dame Margarete the dukys
doughter of Northefolke and suster to the Erle Marchalle" [Reference:
Gregory's Chronicle in Historical Collections of a London Citizen,
ed.
by J. Gairdner (Camden Soc. n.s. 17) (1876): 140]. Since no mention
is made of a husband on this occasion, it seems obvious that Margaret
Mowbray was still unmarried as of 21 February 1420/1.
Margaret was born in the late 1390s, and so was in her early-to-mid
twenties in 1421. Ms. Crawford feels its possible that Margaret
refused a marriage that her mother and/or brother tried to arrange for
her. She found a letter, which she has been unable yet to precisely
date, from Elizabeth, duchess of Norfolk, to her son John, where
Elizabeth refuses to pay for Margaret's upkeep, and states that John
should do so, or the king himself. This may be nothing more than part
of a larger quarrel the duchess had with her son over money, or it may
be indicative of displeasure on the duchess's part toward her daughter.
Ms. Crawford feels the marriage of Margaret to Sir Robert Howard took
place about 1422. She could find no definite evidence that Robert was
a member of the household of Margaret's brother the earl of Norfolk,
but there is much circumstantial evidence to place him there. She also
feels, due to Margaret and Robert's ages, that they likely chose each
other, rather than the match being arranged. The earl of Norfolk, fond
of Howard, agreed to it, as it was also a way to not have to pay for
his sister's upkeep. Ms. Crawford feels that the fact that Margaret's
two elder sisters, Elizabeth and Isabel, were given manors at their
marriages, and Margaret did not receive any, also is evidence that
Margaret likely chose her own husband and received a cash maritagium.
On a related note, Henry Howard, younger brother of Sir Robert Howard,
was murdered by servants of Lord Scrope of Bolton in 1446, but Ms.
Crawford has not yet discovered the reasons behind this act.
And Catherine Howard, younger daughter of Robert and Margaret, had
quite interesting circumstances surrounding her own marriage. She was
likely a goddaughter of Katherine Neville, duchess of Norfolk, wife of
Margaret's brother, and was placed in the household of her aunt at a
young age. There, she met Edward Nevill, Lord Abergavenny, youngest
brother of the duchess, and allowed herself to be seduced by him while
his wife, Elizabeth Beauchamp of Abergavenny, was still alive. Young
Catherine Howard was very lucky that after Lady Abergavenny's death,
Edward Nevill did the right thing and married his young mistress. This
is how Catherine came to make such a grander match than her elder
sister Margaret, and indeed grander than that of her brother John
Howard (later 1st duke of Norfolk). Ms. Crawford likes to think of
Catherine as the 15th-century predecessor laying the groundwork for the
exploits of her famous Tudor nieces Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.
Hope this is of interest,
Cheers, ------Brad