Armenian Saints

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Armenian Saints

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 13 nov 2004 04:41:02

Sir Iain Moncreiffe in his book HRH page 48 shows a line of ancestry from James de Lusignan, King of Cyprus and titular King of Armenia all the way back to Vologaeses V, Great King of Parthia, who lived around 200 AD.

This line gives three uncertain connections.

In this line is shown St. Narses the Great, hereditary Bishop and Primate of Armenia 355-373, and his son St. Isaac the Great, also hereditary Bishop and Primate of Armenia. It also shows several generations earlier how Tiran Tiridates IV was the first Christian king of Armenia as he was converted by St. Gregory.

In 1965 Donald Attwater published a book called A Dictionary of Saints, I have the Penguin paper back edition. This gives biographical details for both, father and son, St. Narses and St.Isaac. In the biography of St. Narses it is mentioned that he is a descendant of St. Gregory the Enlightener, who was born about 240.

In the biography of St. Gregory is mentioned that he had converted King Tiridates (Tradt) III , not the IVth. but this could be an oversight. There are other tantalising bits in the line of Sir Iain, especially when combining information with what is recorded in this Dictionary.

Here is that line

Vologaeses V, Great King of Parthia, including Persia and Babylonia 191-208 AD
/
Chosroes I, King of Armenia 191-216, client kingdom of Persian empire
/
Tiridates II, King of Armenia 216-252, maintained pagan Zoroastrian fire-alters
/
Chosroes II the Valiant, King of Western Armenia, slain by bros.287
/
Tiran (Helios) Tiridates IV, first Christian King of Armenia, 298-339 (Converted by St. Gregory)
/
Chosroes III, King of Armenia 330-339
/
Bambishn, married Athenogenes, son of Hesychius, Primate of Armenia 343-348
/
St.Narses
/
St. Isaac the Great

In the biography of St. Gregory the Enlightener is mentioned that he was the son "of a Partian who murdered King Khosrov I of Armenia. And was taken to Caesarea for safety where Gregory was baptised."

Sir Iain does not indicate that Chosroes I was murdered, but Chosroes II was-----
and what is more he was "slain by brothers" in 287. And here things start to muddle up. Gregory was supposed to be born about 240 and was the son of a Parthian who had murdered Khosrov. The dates don't fit, as he was about 47 when Chosroes II was slain by "bros."
Is this an indication that, perhaps, Gregory's father was a brother of the murdered Chosroes, being it number I or II? But Chosroes I died in 216 some 24 years before Gregory was born,
and he wasn't murdered, does this make Chosroes II the murdered one, as Sir Ian tells?

If Gregory's father is a brother of the murdered Chosroes II, forget for a moment the dates don't work out, then he was a first cousin of Tiran (Helios) Tiridates IV, whom he converted to Christianity.

Now another puzzle. Re-writing Sir Iain's lineage a little, we have

Hesychius, Primate of Armenia 345-348
/
Athenogenes, married Bambishn of Armenia (see above)

Extracting from the Dictionary of Saints

St. Gregory the Enlightener
born circa 240- died circa 326
/
Aristakes, chief Bishop (katholikos) of the Armenian Church
is he father of Hesychius, mentioned above?

Can anyone enlighten what the real situation is----and how reliable it all is?
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Don Stone

Re: Armenian Saints

Legg inn av Don Stone » 14 nov 2004 19:12:17

Leo van de Pas wrote:
Sir Iain Moncreiffe in his book HRH page 48 shows a line of ancestry from
James de Lusignan, King of Cyprus and titular King of Armenia all the way
back to Vologaeses V, Great King of Parthia, who lived around 200 AD.

This line gives three uncertain connections.

In this line is shown St. Narses the Great, hereditary Bishop and Primate
of Armenia 355-373, and his son St. Isaac the Great, also hereditary
Bishop and Primate of Armenia. It also shows several generations earlier
how Tiran Tiridates IV was the first Christian king of Armenia as he was
converted by St. Gregory.

In 1965 Donald Attwater published a book called A Dictionary of Saints, I
have the Penguin paper back edition. This gives biographical details for
both, father and son, St. Narses and St.Isaac. In the biography of St.
Narses it is mentioned that he is a descendant of St. Gregory the
Enlightener, who was born about 240.

In the biography of St. Gregory is mentioned that he had converted King
Tiridates (Tradt) III , not the IVth. but this could be an oversight.

Robert Hewsen proposed a revision of the earlier Armenian royal line,
resulting in Tiran Tiridates the Great being renumbered from III to IV.
Toumanoff accepted this revision, but Settipani is skeptical of it, as I
recall. (Except for the numbering of Tiridates the Great, this revision
doesn't affect the line as you present it.)

There are other tantalising bits in the line of Sir Iain, especially when
combining information with what is recorded in this Dictionary.

Here is that line

Vologaeses V, Great King of Parthia, including Persia and Babylonia
191-208 AD / Chosroes I, King of Armenia 191-216, client kingdom of
Persian empire / Tiridates II, King of Armenia 216-252, maintained pagan
Zoroastrian fire-alters / Chosroes II the Valiant, King of Western
Armenia, slain by bros.287 / Tiran (Helios) Tiridates IV, first Christian
King of Armenia, 298-339 (Converted by St. Gregory) / Chosroes III, King
of Armenia 330-339 / Bambishn, married Athenogenes, son of Hesychius,
Primate of Armenia 343-348 / St.Narses / St. Isaac the Great

This looks good to me, except that Tiran Tiridates IV (III) d. 330/1.
(Note: putting III in parentheses following the IV may help avoid
confusion.) St. Narses is also referred to as St. Narses the Great; he was
responsible for significant reforms and reorganization of the Armenian church.

In the biography of St. Gregory the Enlightener is mentioned that he was
the son "of a Partian who murdered King Khosrov I of Armenia. And was
taken to Caesarea for safety where Gregory was baptised."

Sir Iain does not indicate that Chosroes I was murdered, but Chosroes II
was----- and what is more he was "slain by brothers" in 287. And here
things start to muddle up. Gregory was supposed to be born about 240 and
was the son of a Parthian who had murdered Khosrov. The dates don't fit,
as he was about 47 when Chosroes II was slain by "bros." Is this an
indication that, perhaps, Gregory's father was a brother of the murdered
Chosroes, being it number I or II? But Chosroes I died in 216 some 24
years before Gregory was born, and he wasn't murdered, does this make
Chosroes II the murdered one, as Sir Ian tells?

There are two different murders:

Tiridates II (sometimes called Chosroes I) was murdered in 252 by Anak
Pahlavi, possible/probable father of St. Gregory the Illuminator.

Chosroes II the Valiant was murdered in 287.

Now another puzzle. Re-writing Sir Iain's lineage a little, we have
Hesychius, Primate of Armenia 345-348 / Athenogenes, married Bambishn of
Armenia (see above)

Extracting from the Dictionary of Saints

St. Gregory the Enlightener born circa 240- died circa 326 / Aristakes,
chief Bishop (katholikos) of the Armenian Church is he father of
Hesychius, mentioned above?

Correct. And the father of Hesychius's wife (her name is unknown) was Tiran
Tiridates IV (III).

Can anyone enlighten what the real situation is----and how reliable it
all is? With many thanks. Leo van de Pas Canberra, Australia

I think that the portion of the lineage that you have presented is not
controversial (except for the numbering of Tiridates the Great).

-- Don Stone

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»