married Count John I of Holland in 1297. This was around the same time the
Joan scandal erupted so the two incidents might be confused. Edward
evidently didn't like weddings. In 1290 he refused to attend that of the
earl of Norfolk, so the queen paid minstrels to play for him while he sat
alone during the ceremony. Also in 1290 on the day his daughter Margaret
married the duke of Brabant, he struck a man on the head with his staff and
paid him a considerable sum in damages. (Despite the violence suggested by
these incidents, there is no proof in the wardrobe records that Edward ever
threw anybody out the window. Sorry, Mel.)
IIRC, CP mentions one earlier "de Monte Hermerii" but cannot connect Ralph
with that individual.
Edward I was hoping in 1297 to marry Joan (widowed in 1295) to the count of
Savoy. There are two possible interpretations of what happened then: (1)
Joan became pregnant by Monthermer & had to marry him in secret, or (2) not
wishing to leave England for Savoy, she married Monthermer so the Savoy
marriage became impossible.
The marriage is generally assumed to have taken place early in 1297. Joan's
first child was born around October that year & that date may have been used
to calculate an assumed date for the marriage that would spare Joan's
reputation as much as possible. In fact we don't know the date of the
wedding, so either of the above interpretations remains plausible. Take
your pick.
When the news reached Edward, it appears that one of his counsellors
unwisely remarked that the marriage disparaged the king's dignity. Edward
exploded, had Monthermer clapped in prison & confiscated all the Clare
lands, of which Joan had become seised upon her first husband's death in
virtue of the highly advantageous marriage settlement Edward had forced on
Joan's late husband.
After some weeks Joan was permitted into her father's presence where,
according to a near-contemporary St Albans chronicler, she defended herself
with the unanswerable retort, "No one sees anything wrong if a great earl
marries a poor and lowly woman. Why should there be anything wrong if a
countess marries a young and promising man?" In the end, Edward had to
accept the situation &, according the terms of Joan's marriage settlement,
Ralph was recognized as earl of Gloucester, a title he retained until Joan
died in 1307.
Regards
John P.
From: Nichol_storm@yahoo.com (.:Nichol:.)
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Errata
Date: 10 Nov 2004 14:06:13 -0800
kirkemo@comcast.net ("Gordon Kirkemo") wrote in message
news:<JNEBIPBDPPDCGBKMKHOGEELIEMAA.kirkemo@comcast.net>...
This has been very helpful, but it raises a question for me. Do you
know
anything of the ancestry of Ralph Monthermer? I've not had much success
in
pursuing his line. Is anything further known about him?
Thanks,
Gordon Kirkemo
As far as I am aware, nothing is known of Ralph Monthermer's ancestry.
He seems to have been a pretty obscure individual. He was attached to
the household of Joan d'Acre before suddenly and secretly marrying her
in 1297, much to the ire of her father King Edward I (who threw his
coronet into the fire upon learning of his daughter's humiliatingly
lowly marriage). Ralph was styled Earl of Gloucester & Hertford in
right of his wife, but when she died in 1307 he was downgraded to the
rank of baron. He would later remarry to another highborn lady, Isabel
le Despenser, the widow of Gilbert de Clare of Thomond and John
Hastings, respectively.