Hi,
I've been trying for some time to untangle aspects of the medieval
English Swynford pedigree. It seems that there were two
contemporaneous Thomas Swynfords in the 1340s/50s, each of whom was
sheriff for one or more counties (R E G Cole discusses this at some
length in "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe" if you can find it;
he treats them as one individual, but I suspect they were two separate
individuals as I shall relate shortly).
Cole has the single individual sheriff of both Bedford and
Buckinghamshire ca. 1344 and has him siring the Hugh Swynford whose
arms were comprised of three boars' heads couped.
However, the Thomas Swynford who was sheriff of Buckingham for two
years in 19 Edward III has assigned to him the arms "paly of Six
Argent and Sable" (http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Documents/ ... ingham.htm).
Very different arms than those recorded for the Thomas Swynford
(boars heads couped on a chevron) who passes on ownership in the
manors of Coleby and Kettlethorpe ca. 1360s to the Hugh Swynford who
marries Katheryn Roet, later mistress of John of Gaunt .
But variants of both arms are found connected with the families
holding portions of the Burgate (Suffolk) Estate. A Sir Peter de
Burgate in 1311 bore arms that Farrer (SIA, Vol. XXI, part I)
describes as "an unusual coat of Burgate, viz., 'Three pales' instead
of the usual coat 'Paly of six'; but if, as I think, it is intended
for canting heraldry, the pales wherewith to make a gate would be the
more suitable. The legend of this seal is 'S. Petri de Burgate' and
the date 5 Ed. II (1311). The land dealt with ... was granted by
'Peter de Burgate Dns de Burgate to Sir John de Swynford militi et
Agnet fil mei, et heridibus Johi et Agnet.'"
Farrer also notes what he calls "an unknown Burgate coat of arms. On
the shield is 'Paly of six; on a chief three trefoils' and it was used
by Richard de Burgate, probably of a junior branch in 1343."
I find this interesting because Farrer also notes other Burgate
seals, associated with the Swynford family, showing "'a chevron
between three boars heads couped' for Swynford. Argent a chevron
between three boars heads couped sable..." for "Robtus de Swinford
miles to Dno Rico de Tendryngge p'sone ecclie de Burgate..."
Would I be tentatively correct in assuming that perhaps either a
junior or a senior branch of the Swynford family marrying a Burgate
heiress then took on the Burgate arms instead of those of Swynford?
The 'paly of six' arms are found carried down via marriage to the
Tyrrells to I think the 16th century (The Jane Ingleton brass), while
the boars' heads couped on a chevron for Swynford dies out with the
end of the direct male line of Hugh Swynford only two or three
generations later.
Any thoughts?
Kindest thanks,
Judy Perry
http://www.katherineswynford.net
Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gordon Kirkemo
RE: Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Judy,
I'm sorry that I cannot help you with your query, but something you
mentioned caught my eye. In discussing the coat of arms below, you mention
one of them descending by marriage to the Tyrrells. I have a very uncertain
secondary source that identifies Alice Swinford as the wife of James Tyrrell
(d. 1343). James is said to be the son of Hugh Tyrrell and Joan Flambard.
James and Alice are said to be the parents of Thomas Tyrrell who married
Alice Blaund.
I checked your website and it appears the Swinford genealogy is not yet
available. As you are aware of a Swinford/Tyrrell marriage, I'm wondering
if it matches the information I have, and, if so, can you link Alice to the
Swinford line?
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Gordon Kirkemo
-----Original Message-----
From: judy perry [mailto:katheryn_swynford@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:58 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Hi,
I've been trying for some time to untangle aspects of the medieval
English Swynford pedigree. It seems that there were two
contemporaneous Thomas Swynfords in the 1340s/50s, each of whom was
sheriff for one or more counties (R E G Cole discusses this at some
length in "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe" if you can find it;
he treats them as one individual, but I suspect they were two separate
individuals as I shall relate shortly).
Cole has the single individual sheriff of both Bedford and
Buckinghamshire ca. 1344 and has him siring the Hugh Swynford whose
arms were comprised of three boars' heads couped.
However, the Thomas Swynford who was sheriff of Buckingham for two
years in 19 Edward III has assigned to him the arms "paly of Six
Argent and Sable"
(http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Documents/ ... ingham.htm).
Very different arms than those recorded for the Thomas Swynford
(boars heads couped on a chevron) who passes on ownership in the
manors of Coleby and Kettlethorpe ca. 1360s to the Hugh Swynford who
marries Katheryn Roet, later mistress of John of Gaunt .
But variants of both arms are found connected with the families
holding portions of the Burgate (Suffolk) Estate. A Sir Peter de
Burgate in 1311 bore arms that Farrer (SIA, Vol. XXI, part I)
describes as "an unusual coat of Burgate, viz., 'Three pales' instead
of the usual coat 'Paly of six'; but if, as I think, it is intended
for canting heraldry, the pales wherewith to make a gate would be the
more suitable. The legend of this seal is 'S. Petri de Burgate' and
the date 5 Ed. II (1311). The land dealt with ... was granted by
'Peter de Burgate Dns de Burgate to Sir John de Swynford militi et
Agnet fil mei, et heridibus Johi et Agnet.'"
Farrer also notes what he calls "an unknown Burgate coat of arms. On
the shield is 'Paly of six; on a chief three trefoils' and it was used
by Richard de Burgate, probably of a junior branch in 1343."
I find this interesting because Farrer also notes other Burgate
seals, associated with the Swynford family, showing "'a chevron
between three boars heads couped' for Swynford. Argent a chevron
between three boars heads couped sable..." for "Robtus de Swinford
miles to Dno Rico de Tendryngge p'sone ecclie de Burgate..."
Would I be tentatively correct in assuming that perhaps either a
junior or a senior branch of the Swynford family marrying a Burgate
heiress then took on the Burgate arms instead of those of Swynford?
The 'paly of six' arms are found carried down via marriage to the
Tyrrells to I think the 16th century (The Jane Ingleton brass), while
the boars' heads couped on a chevron for Swynford dies out with the
end of the direct male line of Hugh Swynford only two or three
generations later.
Any thoughts?
Kindest thanks,
Judy Perry
http://www.katherineswynford.net
I'm sorry that I cannot help you with your query, but something you
mentioned caught my eye. In discussing the coat of arms below, you mention
one of them descending by marriage to the Tyrrells. I have a very uncertain
secondary source that identifies Alice Swinford as the wife of James Tyrrell
(d. 1343). James is said to be the son of Hugh Tyrrell and Joan Flambard.
James and Alice are said to be the parents of Thomas Tyrrell who married
Alice Blaund.
I checked your website and it appears the Swinford genealogy is not yet
available. As you are aware of a Swinford/Tyrrell marriage, I'm wondering
if it matches the information I have, and, if so, can you link Alice to the
Swinford line?
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Gordon Kirkemo
-----Original Message-----
From: judy perry [mailto:katheryn_swynford@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:58 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Hi,
I've been trying for some time to untangle aspects of the medieval
English Swynford pedigree. It seems that there were two
contemporaneous Thomas Swynfords in the 1340s/50s, each of whom was
sheriff for one or more counties (R E G Cole discusses this at some
length in "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe" if you can find it;
he treats them as one individual, but I suspect they were two separate
individuals as I shall relate shortly).
Cole has the single individual sheriff of both Bedford and
Buckinghamshire ca. 1344 and has him siring the Hugh Swynford whose
arms were comprised of three boars' heads couped.
However, the Thomas Swynford who was sheriff of Buckingham for two
years in 19 Edward III has assigned to him the arms "paly of Six
Argent and Sable"
(http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Documents/ ... ingham.htm).
Very different arms than those recorded for the Thomas Swynford
(boars heads couped on a chevron) who passes on ownership in the
manors of Coleby and Kettlethorpe ca. 1360s to the Hugh Swynford who
marries Katheryn Roet, later mistress of John of Gaunt .
But variants of both arms are found connected with the families
holding portions of the Burgate (Suffolk) Estate. A Sir Peter de
Burgate in 1311 bore arms that Farrer (SIA, Vol. XXI, part I)
describes as "an unusual coat of Burgate, viz., 'Three pales' instead
of the usual coat 'Paly of six'; but if, as I think, it is intended
for canting heraldry, the pales wherewith to make a gate would be the
more suitable. The legend of this seal is 'S. Petri de Burgate' and
the date 5 Ed. II (1311). The land dealt with ... was granted by
'Peter de Burgate Dns de Burgate to Sir John de Swynford militi et
Agnet fil mei, et heridibus Johi et Agnet.'"
Farrer also notes what he calls "an unknown Burgate coat of arms. On
the shield is 'Paly of six; on a chief three trefoils' and it was used
by Richard de Burgate, probably of a junior branch in 1343."
I find this interesting because Farrer also notes other Burgate
seals, associated with the Swynford family, showing "'a chevron
between three boars heads couped' for Swynford. Argent a chevron
between three boars heads couped sable..." for "Robtus de Swinford
miles to Dno Rico de Tendryngge p'sone ecclie de Burgate..."
Would I be tentatively correct in assuming that perhaps either a
junior or a senior branch of the Swynford family marrying a Burgate
heiress then took on the Burgate arms instead of those of Swynford?
The 'paly of six' arms are found carried down via marriage to the
Tyrrells to I think the 16th century (The Jane Ingleton brass), while
the boars' heads couped on a chevron for Swynford dies out with the
end of the direct male line of Hugh Swynford only two or three
generations later.
Any thoughts?
Kindest thanks,
Judy Perry
http://www.katherineswynford.net
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Dear Judy ~
Thank you for your good post.
The Swinfords, Burgates, and Tyrrells descend from a certain Galiena
de Dammartin, daughter of William de Dammartin, which William was the
son of Manasser de Dammartin (died 1178/9), of Mendlesham and Cotton,
Suffolk, Norton
Mandeville, Essex, etc., by his wife, Galiena de Gournay (living c.
1170). Galiena de Gournay in turn was the granddaughter of an
unplaced William de Gournay, of Addington, Kent, whose gift to the see
of Rochester she confirmed by her own undated charter.
My files show that Galiena de Dammartin married three times, her
husbands being named Brewes, Burgate, and Mandeville. She had issue
by her Burgate and Mandeville marriages. I believe Galiena's two
Mandeville sons died without issue. However, there are living
descendants of her Burgate marriage.
The sources listed below should be helpful to you:
Hasted, 4 (1798): 544-545.
W. A. Copinger, Manors of Suffolk, 3 (1909): 277-278.
Lewis C. Loyd and Doris M. Stenton, eds., Sir Christopher Hatton's
Book of Seals (1958), pp. 229-230, 239-240.
VCH Essex, 4 (1956): 151-152.
Genealogist, 15 (1965): 53-63 (article on Dammartin family).
J. G. Jenkins, ed., Cartulary of Missenden Abbey, 1: 70-75.
Michael Gervers, Cartulary of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem in
England
(19__): 216.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
katheryn_swynford@yahoo.com (judy perry) wrote in message news:<b471b39a.0411102058.76522d19@posting.google.com>...
Thank you for your good post.
The Swinfords, Burgates, and Tyrrells descend from a certain Galiena
de Dammartin, daughter of William de Dammartin, which William was the
son of Manasser de Dammartin (died 1178/9), of Mendlesham and Cotton,
Suffolk, Norton
Mandeville, Essex, etc., by his wife, Galiena de Gournay (living c.
1170). Galiena de Gournay in turn was the granddaughter of an
unplaced William de Gournay, of Addington, Kent, whose gift to the see
of Rochester she confirmed by her own undated charter.
My files show that Galiena de Dammartin married three times, her
husbands being named Brewes, Burgate, and Mandeville. She had issue
by her Burgate and Mandeville marriages. I believe Galiena's two
Mandeville sons died without issue. However, there are living
descendants of her Burgate marriage.
The sources listed below should be helpful to you:
Hasted, 4 (1798): 544-545.
W. A. Copinger, Manors of Suffolk, 3 (1909): 277-278.
Lewis C. Loyd and Doris M. Stenton, eds., Sir Christopher Hatton's
Book of Seals (1958), pp. 229-230, 239-240.
VCH Essex, 4 (1956): 151-152.
Genealogist, 15 (1965): 53-63 (article on Dammartin family).
J. G. Jenkins, ed., Cartulary of Missenden Abbey, 1: 70-75.
Michael Gervers, Cartulary of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem in
England
(19__): 216.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
katheryn_swynford@yahoo.com (judy perry) wrote in message news:<b471b39a.0411102058.76522d19@posting.google.com>...
Hi,
I've been trying for some time to untangle aspects of the medieval
English Swynford pedigree. It seems that there were two
contemporaneous Thomas Swynfords in the 1340s/50s, each of whom was
sheriff for one or more counties (R E G Cole discusses this at some
length in "The Manor and Rectory of Kettlethorpe" if you can find it;
he treats them as one individual, but I suspect they were two separate
individuals as I shall relate shortly).
Cole has the single individual sheriff of both Bedford and
Buckinghamshire ca. 1344 and has him siring the Hugh Swynford whose
arms were comprised of three boars' heads couped.
However, the Thomas Swynford who was sheriff of Buckingham for two
years in 19 Edward III has assigned to him the arms "paly of Six
Argent and Sable" (http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Documents/ ... ingham.htm).
Very different arms than those recorded for the Thomas Swynford
(boars heads couped on a chevron) who passes on ownership in the
manors of Coleby and Kettlethorpe ca. 1360s to the Hugh Swynford who
marries Katheryn Roet, later mistress of John of Gaunt .
But variants of both arms are found connected with the families
holding portions of the Burgate (Suffolk) Estate. A Sir Peter de
Burgate in 1311 bore arms that Farrer (SIA, Vol. XXI, part I)
describes as "an unusual coat of Burgate, viz., 'Three pales' instead
of the usual coat 'Paly of six'; but if, as I think, it is intended
for canting heraldry, the pales wherewith to make a gate would be the
more suitable. The legend of this seal is 'S. Petri de Burgate' and
the date 5 Ed. II (1311). The land dealt with ... was granted by
'Peter de Burgate Dns de Burgate to Sir John de Swynford militi et
Agnet fil mei, et heridibus Johi et Agnet.'"
Farrer also notes what he calls "an unknown Burgate coat of arms. On
the shield is 'Paly of six; on a chief three trefoils' and it was used
by Richard de Burgate, probably of a junior branch in 1343."
I find this interesting because Farrer also notes other Burgate
seals, associated with the Swynford family, showing "'a chevron
between three boars heads couped' for Swynford. Argent a chevron
between three boars heads couped sable..." for "Robtus de Swinford
miles to Dno Rico de Tendryngge p'sone ecclie de Burgate..."
Would I be tentatively correct in assuming that perhaps either a
junior or a senior branch of the Swynford family marrying a Burgate
heiress then took on the Burgate arms instead of those of Swynford?
The 'paly of six' arms are found carried down via marriage to the
Tyrrells to I think the 16th century (The Jane Ingleton brass), while
the boars' heads couped on a chevron for Swynford dies out with the
end of the direct male line of Hugh Swynford only two or three
generations later.
Any thoughts?
Kindest thanks,
Judy Perry
http://www.katherineswynford.net
-
judy perry
Re: Swynford<-> Burgate family?
Dear Douglas,
Thank you for your information. The intermarriage with Brewes is
interesting also, inasmuch as the Sir Norman Swynford of Brancewell
(Lincs) ca. 1346 whom R E G Cole tentatively identifies as the brother
or other close relative of Thomas father of Hugh Swynford married (as
her second husband) Margaret de Trehampton who had married firstly Sir
John de Brewes and by whom had an only son, John, who had been
declared an idiot such that Norman Swynford had the enjoyment of his
(the idiot Brewes') inheritance.
Cole also states that the supposedly (later declared null) idiot
Brewes heir married an Anna or Joan Swynford whom he identifies as
Hugh's aunt and Thomas Swynford's daughter...
This Norman Swynford's arms, citing Excerpta Historica, pp. 152-9, as
Argent, on a chevron, sable, three boars' heads or, differenced by a
cinquefoil as a mark of cadency. (Cole, pp. 52-3). I believe the
individuals (Margaret Trehampton at least) is commemorated in stained
glass at a Lincolnshire church (don't have the reference handy but
could track it down if anyone wished).
I shall enjoy chasing down your references to determine whether/when
the family tree split into the branches bearing the paly of six,
argent and sable versus any combination of boars' heads couped on a
chevron, as well as why, as well as the specifics of the
Tyrrell/Swynford/Burgate intermarriages.
Kindest thanks again,
Judy
http://www.katherineswynford.net
douglasrichardson@royalancestry.net (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<2619efc9.0411110930.452c27ce@posting.google.com>...
Thank you for your information. The intermarriage with Brewes is
interesting also, inasmuch as the Sir Norman Swynford of Brancewell
(Lincs) ca. 1346 whom R E G Cole tentatively identifies as the brother
or other close relative of Thomas father of Hugh Swynford married (as
her second husband) Margaret de Trehampton who had married firstly Sir
John de Brewes and by whom had an only son, John, who had been
declared an idiot such that Norman Swynford had the enjoyment of his
(the idiot Brewes') inheritance.
Cole also states that the supposedly (later declared null) idiot
Brewes heir married an Anna or Joan Swynford whom he identifies as
Hugh's aunt and Thomas Swynford's daughter...
This Norman Swynford's arms, citing Excerpta Historica, pp. 152-9, as
Argent, on a chevron, sable, three boars' heads or, differenced by a
cinquefoil as a mark of cadency. (Cole, pp. 52-3). I believe the
individuals (Margaret Trehampton at least) is commemorated in stained
glass at a Lincolnshire church (don't have the reference handy but
could track it down if anyone wished).
I shall enjoy chasing down your references to determine whether/when
the family tree split into the branches bearing the paly of six,
argent and sable versus any combination of boars' heads couped on a
chevron, as well as why, as well as the specifics of the
Tyrrell/Swynford/Burgate intermarriages.
Kindest thanks again,
Judy
http://www.katherineswynford.net
douglasrichardson@royalancestry.net (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<2619efc9.0411110930.452c27ce@posting.google.com>...
Dear Judy ~
Thank you for your good post.
The Swinfords, Burgates, and Tyrrells descend from a certain Galiena
de Dammartin, daughter of William de Dammartin, which William was the
son of Manasser de Dammartin (died 1178/9), of Mendlesham and Cotton,
Suffolk, Norton
Mandeville, Essex, etc., by his wife, Galiena de Gournay (living c.
1170). Galiena de Gournay in turn was the granddaughter of an
unplaced William de Gournay, of Addington, Kent, whose gift to the see
of Rochester she confirmed by her own undated charter.
My files show that Galiena de Dammartin married three times, her
husbands being named Brewes, Burgate, and Mandeville. She had issue
by her Burgate and Mandeville marriages. I believe Galiena's two
Mandeville sons died without issue. However, there are living
descendants of her Burgate marriage.
The sources listed below should be helpful to you:
Hasted, 4 (1798): 544-545.
W. A. Copinger, Manors of Suffolk, 3 (1909): 277-278.
Lewis C. Loyd and Doris M. Stenton, eds., Sir Christopher Hatton's
Book of Seals (1958), pp. 229-230, 239-240.
VCH Essex, 4 (1956): 151-152.
Genealogist, 15 (1965): 53-63 (article on Dammartin family).
J. G. Jenkins, ed., Cartulary of Missenden Abbey, 1: 70-75.
Michael Gervers, Cartulary of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem in
England
(19__): 216.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah