A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore 1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide? Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was the mother of
Sennacherib-John's children, David and Maria? Does anyone know of any
evidence on this?
I note from Wagner that Gagik II, son of Ashot IV, married a daughter of
David Artsruni. If the above conclusions are true, they would make this
couple first cousins once removed.
Also, if the conclusions are true, there is an apparent line of descent
of the later kings of Georgia from the Sassanids.
Thanks.
-- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd-gm@earthlink.net]
Khoushoush of Armenia
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Don Stone
Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
Paul K Davis wrote:
Toumanoff (1990, Table 16, p. 122) gives the following children of King
Gagik I and Kotramide:
1. Jean-Smbat III (XI)
2. Aschot IV (IX)
3. Abas
and, with a dashed line, indicating uncertainty:
4. Khouschousch, m. Sennacherib-Jean I, King of Vaspourakan.
He doesn't link his tables to his references, so it is not easy to tell the
basis for this latter tentative connection.
Toumanoff, Cyrille. 1990. _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne de
l'Antiquité jusqu'au XIXe siècle. Tables généalogiques et chronologiques_.
Rome, 1990.
-- Don Stone
A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore 1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide? Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Toumanoff (1990, Table 16, p. 122) gives the following children of King
Gagik I and Kotramide:
1. Jean-Smbat III (XI)
2. Aschot IV (IX)
3. Abas
and, with a dashed line, indicating uncertainty:
4. Khouschousch, m. Sennacherib-Jean I, King of Vaspourakan.
He doesn't link his tables to his references, so it is not easy to tell the
basis for this latter tentative connection.
Toumanoff, Cyrille. 1990. _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne de
l'Antiquité jusqu'au XIXe siècle. Tables généalogiques et chronologiques_.
Rome, 1990.
-- Don Stone
-
norenxaq
Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
Paul K Davis wrote:
what would this lineage be?
A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore 1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide? Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was the mother of
Sennacherib-John's children, David and Maria? Does anyone know of any
evidence on this?
I note from Wagner that Gagik II, son of Ashot IV, married a daughter of
David Artsruni. If the above conclusions are true, they would make this
couple first cousins once removed.
Also, if the conclusions are true, there is an apparent line of descent
of the later kings of Georgia from the Sassanids.
what would this lineage be?
-
Robert
Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
pkd-gm@earthlink.net ("Paul K Davis") wrote in message news:<410-22004110720497761@earthlink.net>...
I feel the website might be in error.
I found Xošuš, wife of John-Senek'erim, in Robert Hewsen's Armenia
Historical Atlas. In as early as 981 she founded the monastery of
Varag.
Her husband John-Senek'erim ruled Vaspurakan 1003-1021, but in 1021
exchanged his lands for some in Cappadocia.
Ashot IV and his brother Smbat III John, "Smbat who was called
Yovhannes", sons of Gagik I of Ani, fought around 1020.
In 1018 John-Senek'erim's son, Davit, was already old enough to have
fought, and lost, in battle against the Seljuks. I don't see
John-Senek'erim's wife Xošuš being a sister of Ashot IV and Smbat III
of Ani. She's of a generation earlier.
Now, there is a connection in the families: Gagik II of Ani, son of
Ashot IV, married an Arcruni: the daughter of Dawit', son of
(John-)Senek'erim. (Aristakes Lastivertc'i's History Regarding the
Sufferings Occasioned by Foreign Peoples Living Around Us (describing
the events of 1000-1071 in Armenia))
A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore 1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide? Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was the mother of
Sennacherib-John's children, David and Maria? Does anyone know of any
evidence on this?
I note from Wagner that Gagik II, son of Ashot IV, married a daughter of
David Artsruni. If the above conclusions are true, they would make this
couple first cousins once removed.
Also, if the conclusions are true, there is an apparent line of descent
of the later kings of Georgia from the Sassanids.
Thanks.
-- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd-gm@earthlink.net]
I feel the website might be in error.
I found Xošuš, wife of John-Senek'erim, in Robert Hewsen's Armenia
Historical Atlas. In as early as 981 she founded the monastery of
Varag.
Her husband John-Senek'erim ruled Vaspurakan 1003-1021, but in 1021
exchanged his lands for some in Cappadocia.
Ashot IV and his brother Smbat III John, "Smbat who was called
Yovhannes", sons of Gagik I of Ani, fought around 1020.
In 1018 John-Senek'erim's son, Davit, was already old enough to have
fought, and lost, in battle against the Seljuks. I don't see
John-Senek'erim's wife Xošuš being a sister of Ashot IV and Smbat III
of Ani. She's of a generation earlier.
Now, there is a connection in the families: Gagik II of Ani, son of
Ashot IV, married an Arcruni: the daughter of Dawit', son of
(John-)Senek'erim. (Aristakes Lastivertc'i's History Regarding the
Sufferings Occasioned by Foreign Peoples Living Around Us (describing
the events of 1000-1071 in Armenia))
-
Paul K Davis
Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
[Original Message]
From: norenxaq <norenxaq@san.rr.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Date: 11/7/2004 9:02:06 PM
Subject: Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
Paul K Davis wrote:
A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by
Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take
the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore
1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his
brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George
I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full
sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide?
Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was the mother of
Sennacherib-John's children, David and Maria? Does anyone know of any
evidence on this?
I note from Wagner that Gagik II, son of Ashot IV, married a
daughter of
David Artsruni. If the above conclusions are true, they would make this
couple first cousins once removed.
Also, if the conclusions are true, there is an apparent line of
descent
of the later kings of Georgia from the Sassanids.
what would this lineage be?
Such a lineage would be:
Bagrat IV Bagratid, king of Georgia 1027 - 1072,
son of
Giorgi I Bagratid, king of Georgia 1014 - 1027, and Mary Artsrunid,
daughter of
Sennacherib-John Artsrunid, king of Vaspurakan 1003 - 1021, and possibly
Khoushoush,
daughter of
Gagik I Bagratid, king of Armenia 989 - 1019, and probably Katramite,
daughter of
Vasak VI of Siunia,
son of
Smbat of Siunia,
son of
Sahak of Siunia,
son of
Ashot of Siunia,
son of
Philipos of Siunia,
son of
Vasak of Siunia,
son of
Grigor of Siunia, and apparently a Persian princess,
daughter of
Khosrov "Parviz" (the Victorious) Sassandi, emperor of Persia 590 - 628.
This list of Siunian noblemen seems inadequate for the length of time, but
not impossible.
-- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd-gm@earthlink.net]
-
Don Stone
Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
Paul K Davis wrote:
Toumanoff (1990), Table 41, pp. 248-9, has the last Vasak, above, not as son
of Gregoire but as perhaps/probably son of Kourd II, perhaps/probably son of
Babgen III, perhaps/probably son of Kourd I, son of Jean II, son of Hrahat
I, son of Gregoire II Novirak, d. 636/7, who married a daughter of Chosroes II.
-- Don Stone
[Original Message]
From: norenxaq <norenxaq@san.rr.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Date: 11/7/2004 9:02:06 PM
Subject: Re: Khoushoush of Armenia
Paul K Davis wrote:
A web site titled "Armenian Continuing History", identified as by
Aram
Orchanian, says that "Ashod received supplemental support from his
brother-in-law, (husband of his sister Khoushoush) king Senekerim of
Vasbouragan, and came to besiege the city of Ani" in an attempt to take
the
crown from his brother "Hovanness-Sempad".
Consulting "Pedigree and Progress", by Anthony Wagner, Phillimore
1975,
pedigree 39 on page 198, I see "Ashot IV anti-king 1021-39" and his
brother
"John Smbat 1020-1040" as sons of "Gagik I Shahashah 989-1020" and
"Kotramide dau. of Vasak VI of Siunia". In the same chart I see
"Sennacherib John, K. of Vaspurakan 1003/4-1021, d. 1027" the father of
"David Artsruni, at Sebaste 1027-37" and of "Maria" who married "George
I,
K. of Georgia 1014-27".
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was a full
sister of
Ashot and John-Smbat, and thus a daughter of Gagik I and Kotramide?
Does
anyone know of any evidence on this?
Is it reasonable for me to conclude that Khoushoush was the mother of
Sennacherib-John's children, David and Maria? Does anyone know of any
evidence on this?
I note from Wagner that Gagik II, son of Ashot IV, married a
daughter of
David Artsruni. If the above conclusions are true, they would make this
couple first cousins once removed.
Also, if the conclusions are true, there is an apparent line of
descent
of the later kings of Georgia from the Sassanids.
what would this lineage be?
Such a lineage would be:
Bagrat IV Bagratid, king of Georgia 1027 - 1072,
son of
Giorgi I Bagratid, king of Georgia 1014 - 1027, and Mary Artsrunid,
daughter of
Sennacherib-John Artsrunid, king of Vaspurakan 1003 - 1021, and possibly
Khoushoush,
daughter of
Gagik I Bagratid, king of Armenia 989 - 1019, and probably Katramite,
daughter of
Vasak VI of Siunia,
son of
Smbat of Siunia,
son of
Sahak of Siunia,
son of
Ashot of Siunia,
son of
Philipos of Siunia,
son of
Vasak of Siunia,
son of
Grigor of Siunia, and apparently a Persian princess,
daughter of
Khosrov "Parviz" (the Victorious) Sassandi, emperor of Persia 590 - 628.
This list of Siunian noblemen seems inadequate for the length of time, but
not impossible.
Toumanoff (1990), Table 41, pp. 248-9, has the last Vasak, above, not as son
of Gregoire but as perhaps/probably son of Kourd II, perhaps/probably son of
Babgen III, perhaps/probably son of Kourd I, son of Jean II, son of Hrahat
I, son of Gregoire II Novirak, d. 636/7, who married a daughter of Chosroes II.
-- Don Stone