I have been trying to wrap my mind around all the ct Williams of
Provence, but apparently no sleep and many other factors have thuis
far hindered my efforts. So I appeal to members of SGM if anyone out
there would be so kind so as to post the years of birth and death, the
parents and spouses of any or all of these Williams, including the
numerology that distinguishes them from their namesakes. Any help is
most appreciated here.-AM
the Guillaumes/Williams/Guilhelms of Provence: total confusi
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
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Adalbertus Magnus
Re: the Guillaumes/Williams/Guilhelms of Provence: total con
Let me rephrase the question. Is there any concrete info on how many
ct Williiams of Provence there actually were? I have five so far, and
that includes the William I who did not belong to the family that all
the later Williams were a part of.-AM
ct Williiams of Provence there actually were? I have five so far, and
that includes the William I who did not belong to the family that all
the later Williams were a part of.-AM
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Peter Stewart
Re: the Guillaumes/Williams/Guilhelms of Provence: total con
Adalbertus Magnus wrote:
I'm not sure what you are thinking of here - maybe you are confusing
this family with the dukes of Aquitaine, where the first two Williams
belonged to one lineage and the rest to another.
In Provence the six Williams were all of the same family, but some were
counts at Arles, some at Avignon and some (often titling themselves
marquis) of all Provence. Their conventional numbering today is not
strictly regular by chronology.
The following relationships and numbers are as given by Jean-Pierre Poly
in his _La Provence et la société féodale (879-1166): Contribution à
l’étude des structures dites féodales dans le Midi_ (Paris, 1976), the
standard study:
1. William I was count by 962, at Avignon. He was son of Rotbald I,
count of Arles.
2. William II, called the Liberator, was count at Arles from 968, count
or marquis of Provence from 972, and died as a monk at Avignon between
29 August 993 & 11 May 994. He was a nephew of #1, son of Count Boso II.
3. William III succeeded him as count from 992, and was killed in battle
on 4 March 1019. He was son of #2.
4. William IV was count from 1030 to 1037. He was a nephew of #2, son of
Count Rotbald II.
5. William V was count in 1013-14 and died before August 1031. He was
son of #3.
6. William VI Bertrand was count by 1053 and died after May 1065. He was
a nephew of #5, son of Count (Fulco) Bertrand.
Peter Stewart
Let me rephrase the question. Is there any concrete info on how many
ct Williiams of Provence there actually were? I have five so far, and
that includes the William I who did not belong to the family that all
the later Williams were a part of.-AM
I'm not sure what you are thinking of here - maybe you are confusing
this family with the dukes of Aquitaine, where the first two Williams
belonged to one lineage and the rest to another.
In Provence the six Williams were all of the same family, but some were
counts at Arles, some at Avignon and some (often titling themselves
marquis) of all Provence. Their conventional numbering today is not
strictly regular by chronology.
The following relationships and numbers are as given by Jean-Pierre Poly
in his _La Provence et la société féodale (879-1166): Contribution à
l’étude des structures dites féodales dans le Midi_ (Paris, 1976), the
standard study:
1. William I was count by 962, at Avignon. He was son of Rotbald I,
count of Arles.
2. William II, called the Liberator, was count at Arles from 968, count
or marquis of Provence from 972, and died as a monk at Avignon between
29 August 993 & 11 May 994. He was a nephew of #1, son of Count Boso II.
3. William III succeeded him as count from 992, and was killed in battle
on 4 March 1019. He was son of #2.
4. William IV was count from 1030 to 1037. He was a nephew of #2, son of
Count Rotbald II.
5. William V was count in 1013-14 and died before August 1031. He was
son of #3.
6. William VI Bertrand was count by 1053 and died after May 1065. He was
a nephew of #5, son of Count (Fulco) Bertrand.
Peter Stewart
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Peter Stewart
Re: the Guillaumes/Williams/Guilhelms of Provence: total con
Peter Stewart wrote:
I hit the "send" button too soon - Poly goes on to number another two
Williams of Provence, but as counts of Forcalquier. These are:
7. William I, count from 1090 to 1129, grandson of #6 above through his
daughter Azalais.
8. William II, count from 1149 to 1162, grandson of #7 through his son
Bertrand I.
Peter Stewart
Adalbertus Magnus wrote:
Let me rephrase the question. Is there any concrete info on how many
ct Williiams of Provence there actually were? I have five so far, and
that includes the William I who did not belong to the family that all
the later Williams were a part of.-AM
I'm not sure what you are thinking of here - maybe you are confusing
this family with the dukes of Aquitaine, where the first two Williams
belonged to one lineage and the rest to another.
In Provence the six Williams were all of the same family, but some were
counts at Arles, some at Avignon and some (often titling themselves
marquis) of all Provence. Their conventional numbering today is not
strictly regular by chronology.
The following relationships and numbers are as given by Jean-Pierre Poly
in his _La Provence et la société féodale (879-1166): Contribution à
l’étude des structures dites féodales dans le Midi_ (Paris, 1976), the
standard study:
1. William I was count by 962, at Avignon. He was son of Rotbald I,
count of Arles.
2. William II, called the Liberator, was count at Arles from 968, count
or marquis of Provence from 972, and died as a monk at Avignon between
29 August 993 & 11 May 994. He was a nephew of #1, son of Count Boso II.
3. William III succeeded him as count from 992, and was killed in battle
on 4 March 1019. He was son of #2.
4. William IV was count from 1030 to 1037. He was a nephew of #2, son of
Count Rotbald II.
5. William V was count in 1013-14 and died before August 1031. He was
son of #3.
6. William VI Bertrand was count by 1053 and died after May 1065. He was
a nephew of #5, son of Count (Fulco) Bertrand.
I hit the "send" button too soon - Poly goes on to number another two
Williams of Provence, but as counts of Forcalquier. These are:
7. William I, count from 1090 to 1129, grandson of #6 above through his
daughter Azalais.
8. William II, count from 1149 to 1162, grandson of #7 through his son
Bertrand I.
Peter Stewart