Fw: How Far Can we Go Back?

[Leo van de Pas]

It is fascinating how opinions can vary. Sir Iain Moncreiffe was a reputable
if somewhat flamboyant genealogist, on the same page 49 he starts the
segment "The Ancient World" with "Because we haven't got records of all the
marriages of ancient royal houses, the furthest back HRH's (Prince William)
ancestry can be traced at present is to Pharnabazus or Pharnavaz I, King of
Iberia in 299 B.C., who was born during the lifetime of Alexander The
Great....(snip)... His descendant, Pharasmenes III, King of Iberia 135-185,
was father of the princess who married Vologaeses V.
Leo van de Pas



----- Original Message -----
From: "pj.evans" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: How Far Can we Go Back?


On Feb 16, 11:35 am, "Leo van de Pas" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Sir Iain Moncreiffe was an flamboyant and fascinating genealogist. I do
not know how many have seen his "Royal Highness", publishhed before Prince
William was born, but on page 48 and 49 is information which I wonder
whether we can extend even further.

Page 48 gives a genealogical line which starts with Vologaeses V, Grand
King of Parthia, including Persia and Babylonia, he appears to have been
born in the year 145, died about 208.

Page 49 The Great King Vologaeses V himself was the 36th monarch of the
male line of the mighty Arsacid dynasty, founded in 249 BC etc.

The above sentence does not mean there were 36 generations before him,
just 36 monarchs of that family, but can we find his father, grandfather,
and so on?

And yes, amongst his descendants are Gateway Ancestors,
Capt John West, Hon. George Percy, Herbert Pelham, Elizabeth Bosville,
Hon. Ann Arundell, Col. Edward Digges, Katherine St.Leger, Francis
Champernoun, Jean Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur comtedeRochambeau, Anne
Humphrey, Anne Boteler, Charles Calvert Lord Baltimore, Edward Nott,
Warham Horsmanden, St.Leger Codd, Maria Joanna Somerset, James Clifton,
Joshua Henshaw, Thomas Hamilton, Susan Felton, Thomas Wingfield, Thomas
Lechmere, Wiseman Clagett, William Tryon, Hon. Robert Monckton, John
Nelson, Margaret Nelson, William Bladen, Lady Christina Stewart, Charles
Stirling, Archibald Dunlop James Boyd and more.

Even by using genealogics it would be quite a task to establish how each
of these descends from Vologaeses V, and therefor if you want to know,
just ask me and with my own computer I will be able to make a lineage to
him.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia .

You might want to look at _Nos ancetres de l'antiquite_ by Settipani,
which covers this possible line. He indicates, if I understand
correctly, that it's probable but not proven (and likely not provable).

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[Gjest]

On Feb 16, 1:17 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <[email protected]> wrote:

It is fascinating how opinions can vary. Sir Iain Moncreiffe was a reputable
if somewhat flamboyant genealogist, on the same page 49 he starts the
segment "The Ancient World" with "Because we haven't got records of all the
marriages of ancient royal houses, the furthest back HRH's (Prince William)
ancestry can be traced at present is to Pharnabazus or Pharnavaz I, King of
Iberia in 299 B.C., who was born during the lifetime of Alexander The
Great....(snip)... His descendant, Pharasmenes III, King of Iberia 135-185,
was father of the princess who married Vologaeses V.

When trying to trace ancient lines, even reputable scholars seem to
drop their standards precipitously. The Scandinavian material
Moncreiffe showed in the same source follow lines that are completely
unsupportable, in one case simply taking a man named Halfdan from the
Orkneyinga Saga, cropping his pedigree and deciding he must be
identical to a completely distinct man named Halfdan from
Heimskringla. There can be no possible justification for this as each
is known only from their own source, and their descriptions in the two
have nothing in common, so there is no basis but name for combining
them, and iven that there is no other evidence, if one decides the
generation before Halfdan is to be rejected, then there is no reason
to suggest that Halfdan is valid, as he is based on the same source.
Simply put, the pedigree was doctored to fit the goal, rather than
deriving from the evidence.

taf

[dn27176]

Hello Leo, As a direct Calvert descendant I am very interested in this “deep” Calvert ancestry line and would like a copy of the lineage you have found. My email address is:
[email protected]
Regards, Teresa