Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

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Richard van Schaik

Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 16. desember 2007 kl. 13.01

Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William Watson
and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as 17 years
old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen Watson (age 14 in
this same census and born in Russia) grandmother of my english uncle.
But how to find her birth is totally unclear to me (Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in Denmark
around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to search in the
Dänish baptism books in the hope to find him. The reason asking this is
that the surname of the mother is not known with certainty and I would
like to pinpoint her in the english census. It might very well be that
she is called Betsy (Elizabeth) Deboo, but further proof on that is needed.

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 16. desember 2007 kl. 19.10

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William Watson
and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as 17 years
old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen Watson (age 14 in
this same census and born in Russia) grandmother of my english uncle.
But how to find her birth is totally unclear to me (Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in Denmark
around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to search in the
Dänish baptism books in the hope to find him. The reason asking this is
that the surname of the mother is not known with certainty and I would
like to pinpoint her in the english census. It might very well be that
she is called Betsy (Elizabeth) Deboo, but further proof on that is needed.

yes DK online and free up to 1892
continuation t0 1925 is being prepared

the bad news is they are images filed by parish

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/default.aspx

so you need a location and a date

I am in DK just now
but ISP probelems so cannot help

Hugh W




--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 16. desember 2007 kl. 20.14

Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William
Watson and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as
17 years old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen Watson
(age 14 in this same census and born in Russia) grandmother of my
english uncle. But how to find her birth is totally unclear to me
(Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in
Denmark around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to
search in the Dänish baptism books in the hope to find him. The reason
asking this is that the surname of the mother is not known with
certainty and I would like to pinpoint her in the english census. It
might very well be that she is called Betsy (Elizabeth) Deboo, but
further proof on that is needed.


yes DK online and free up to 1892
continuation t0 1925 is being prepared

the bad news is they are images filed by parish

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/default.aspx

so you need a location and a date

I am in DK just now
but ISP probelems so cannot help

You helped already a lot Hugh, the baptism site for DK is known thanks
to you. But as it is huge I would like to limit to make search feasable.
Its still even then a needle in the haystack (even not knowing whether
the needle was hidden in this particular haystack) but to get prove I've
to start somewhere on this two childs family (both foreign born as
regarding to England).

Cheers,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Art

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Art » 17. desember 2007 kl. 3.53

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William
Watson and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as
17 years old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen Watson
(age 14 in this same census and born in Russia) grandmother of my
english uncle. But how to find her birth is totally unclear to me
(Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in
Denmark around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to
search in the Dänish baptism books in the hope to find him. The
reason asking this is that the surname of the mother is not known
with certainty and I would like to pinpoint her in the english
census. It might very well be that she is called Betsy (Elizabeth)
Deboo, but further proof on that is needed.


yes DK online and free up to 1892
continuation t0 1925 is being prepared

the bad news is they are images filed by parish

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/default.aspx

so you need a location and a date

I am in DK just now
but ISP probelems so cannot help

You helped already a lot Hugh, the baptism site for DK is known thanks
to you. But as it is huge I would like to limit to make search feasable.
Its still even then a needle in the haystack (even not knowing whether
the needle was hidden in this particular haystack) but to get prove I've
to start somewhere on this two childs family (both foreign born as
regarding to England).

There only appears to be one record in the online census database
(http://www.ddd.dda.dk) with the name William Watson, but it is probably
too early to be either of the William Watsons you are looking for.

Name: William Watson
Sex: M
Age: 16
Marital status: Unverheir.
Census year: FT-1803
County: Holsten
District:
Parish: Altona Købstad
Title no /address: jo241
Household-/ family no: 4199
Source entry no: C1592
Record no: 21525

Art

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 17. desember 2007 kl. 10.48

Art wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William
Watson and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as
17 years old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen
Watson (age 14 in this same census and born in Russia) grandmother
of my english uncle. But how to find her birth is totally unclear to
me (Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in
Denmark around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to
search in the Dänish baptism books in the hope to find him. The
reason asking this is that the surname of the mother is not known
with certainty and I would like to pinpoint her in the english
census. It might very well be that she is called Betsy (Elizabeth)
Deboo, but further proof on that is needed.



yes DK online and free up to 1892
continuation t0 1925 is being prepared

the bad news is they are images filed by parish

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/default.aspx

so you need a location and a date

I am in DK just now
but ISP probelems so cannot help


You helped already a lot Hugh, the baptism site for DK is known
thanks to you. But as it is huge I would like to limit to make search
feasable. Its still even then a needle in the haystack (even not
knowing whether the needle was hidden in this particular haystack) but
to get prove I've to start somewhere on this two childs family (both
foreign born as regarding to England).


There only appears to be one record in the online census database
(http://www.ddd.dda.dk) with the name William Watson, but it is probably
too early to be either of the William Watsons you are looking for.

Name: William Watson
Sex: M
Age: 16
Marital status: Unverheir.
Census year: FT-1803
County: Holsten
District:
Parish: Altona Købstad
Title no /address: jo241
Household-/ family no: 4199
Source entry no: C1592
Record no: 21525

yes which is why I did not súggest dda


this is railway building time
so 185oies 1860ies
foriegn experts in Denmark

the father's contract should be in the National Archives
the BSB daniush state railways

I will have a dig around soon
The Railway Museum in Odense might know

several locomotives built in England there


Hugh W


--


http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 18. desember 2007 kl. 0.36

Art wrote:

There only appears to be one record in the online census database
(http://www.ddd.dda.dk) with the name William Watson, but it is probably
too early to be either of the William Watsons you are looking for.

Name: William Watson
Sex: M
Age: 16
Marital status: Unverheir.
Census year: FT-1803
County: Holsten
District:
Parish: Altona Købstad
Title no /address: jo241
Household-/ family no: 4199
Source entry no: C1592
Record no: 21525

Thanks Art,

It is however as you already noted some 60 years early. My William
wasn't even born then (he was born around 1840). And its also I think a
little bit early to think of railway construction as Hugh also mentioned.

Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 18. desember 2007 kl. 2.29

Hugh Watkins wrote:

yes which is why I did not súggest dda

I do have that link however, no problem in reading them. Just no
relevant data found there on my question as far as my search went.

Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 18. desember 2007 kl. 10.22

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hugh Watkins wrote:

yes which is why I did not súggest dda


I do have that link however, no problem in reading them. Just no
relevant data found there on my question as far as my search went.


my posting to the dnish group produced a reply

he was in Odense in 1865
and signed a testimonial for one of his workers

I have requested a copy
it will also make my search of the Rigsarkiv easier


http://daisy.sa.dk/ is the search engine

1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner vis
1867 1881 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Anlægget << construction - may be drawings
1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Baneafdelingen

track

1865 1949 Journalsager
1865 1949 Registratur

where I shall enter to old system looking for corresponndance
it would be possible to make a historical model of the railway as he
built it

regards

Hugh W


--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 19. desember 2007 kl. 19.10

Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

yes which is why I did not súggest dda

I do have that link however, no problem in reading them. Just no
relevant data found there on my question as far as my search went.

my posting to the dnish group produced a reply
he was in Odense in 1865
and signed a testimonial for one of his workers

I have requested a copy
it will also make my search of the Rigsarkiv easier

That is fine news! I tried a bit with the material from Odense but
haven't found them yet. It was however a very quick and dirty try so I
really should extend on this during my two week holiday.

http://daisy.sa.dk/ is the search engine
1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner vis
1867 1881 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Anlægget << construction -
may be drawings
1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Baneafdelingen
track
1865 1949 Journalsager
1865 1949 Registratur

Thanks, saw the whole index on this subject. Regretfully they didn't
bring the originals to my home for me to view 8-) (its a mere 1000 km).

where I shall enter to old system looking for corresponndance
it would be possible to make a historical model of the railway as he
built it

I still have my model train in the attick ........ could give it a try.

Thanks Hugh,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 19. desember 2007 kl. 19.59

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

yes which is why I did not súggest dda


I do have that link however, no problem in reading them. Just no
relevant data found there on my question as far as my search went.


my posting to the dnish group produced a reply
he was in Odense in 1865
and signed a testimonial for one of his workers

I have requested a copy
it will also make my search of the Rigsarkiv easier


That is fine news! I tried a bit with the material from Odense but
haven't found them yet. It was however a very quick and dirty try so I
really should extend on this during my two week holiday.

http://daisy.sa.dk/ is the search engine
1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner vis
1867 1881 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Anlægget << construction -
may be drawings
1867 1885 Jysk-Fynske Jernbaner, Baneafdelingen track
1865 1949 Journalsager
1865 1949 Registratur


Thanks, saw the whole index on this subject. Regretfully they didn't
bring the originals to my home for me to view 8-) (its a mere 1000 km).

where I shall enter to old system looking for corresponndance
it would be possible to make a historical model of the railway as he
built it


I still have my model train in the attick ........ could give it a try.

yes I was a train fan too until I became a musician and need to be
single minded

his employer was Peto, Brassey and Betts
my notes
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/pet ... betts.html
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/jys ... hives.html

but with the banking crisis the failed
and 14.3.1867 the danish state took over the line


looking at the census your guy became a clergyman so check him out in
Crockfords - ask on SGB of course

his father signerd a testimonial

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/indiv ... n_2007.ged


Note: Anbefalingsskrivelse fra Danish Railways Constructors hvori det er
anført hvad Niels Askholm har lavet af stenhuggerarbejde for selskabet.
stone cutter = mason -- or sculptor >?

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/media ... faling.png


enjoy

Hugh W

Hugh W



--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 21. desember 2007 kl. 0.57

Hugh Watkins wrote:

his employer was Peto, Brassey and Betts
my notes
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/pet ... betts.html
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/jys ... hives.html

but with the banking crisis the failed
and 14.3.1867 the danish state took over the line

Very nice, that gives some background on "my" William Watson also. Only
the reason for him to go to Russia is not yet clearcut (might pertain to
this banking crisis), but maybe the documents about this Danish Railway
do clarify this.

looking at the census your guy became a clergyman so check him out in
Crockfords - ask on SGB of course

I ofcourse remain a bit more interested in his sister (the Russia born
one). But solving this will tell a whole lot about the faring of this
family. I do have their 1881 census registration and onwards to the
deaths of his parents (couldn't find them yet in the 1871, but they
still could be abroad in that year). But also I did see that death certs
are not to helpfull in determining the surname of the mother. Just a bit
of luck needed there in the form of the informant.

his father signerd a testimonial

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/indiv ... n_2007.ged

Note: Anbefalingsskrivelse fra Danish Railways Constructors hvori det er
anført hvad Niels Askholm har lavet af stenhuggerarbejde for selskabet.
stone cutter = mason -- or sculptor >?

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/media ... faling.png

You did sent that, and a huge thanks to you and Børge Askholm for
finding this for me.

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 21. desember 2007 kl. 20.10

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hi,

I'm trying to find the birth of William H. Watson, son of William Watson
and Betsy. In the english census of 1881 this son is given as 17 years
old and born in Denmark. He is brother of Annie Ellen Watson (age 14 in
this same census and born in Russia) grandmother of my english uncle.
But how to find her birth is totally unclear to me (Russia being vast).

The father William had as occupation railway contractor, so I'm
interested in finding some connection to railway construction in Denmark
around 1864. Maybe that way there is some possibility to search in the
Danish baptisms chirch books in the hope to find him. The reason
asking this is
that the surname of the mother is not known with certainty and I would
like to pinpoint her in the english census. It might very well be that
she is called Betsy (Elizabeth) Deboo, but further proof on that is
needed.


Yaxley parish registers??



5 March 1860 Peto arrived with his managers and foremen on their own
ship Swallow at Aarhus where they set up their Danish Railway
Contractors Office and they sailed on to Randers and started aworkshop
there
they were there for 13 years

the Dano Prussian war of 1864 cost them a years work
but they wer able to pay 4% + to the shareholders inall other years

BUT there is no reason to suppose a british national would be christend
in the local danish church

His birth *may* have been registered at consulate or embassy and I would
expect him to be christened later in England and confirmed when he was
at boarding school


1881 England Census
about Henry W. Watson
Name: Henry W. Watson
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Brit Subj, Denmark

Civil Parish: Cheltenham
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address: 2 Royal Parade
Education:

Employment status:

View Image

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/vi ... rc=&zp=100

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Cheltenham
Sub-registration district: Cheltenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page

Elizabeth Watson abt 1837 Ireland Head St John The Baptist
Gloucestershire

Household Members:
Name Age
Anne Carter 55 servant cook
Emma Puffett 15 Housemaid

Elizth. Watson 43
Henry W. Watson 15


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2575; Folio: 16; Page: 27; Line: ;
GSU roll: 1341621.


1891

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?ht ... d=17186082

now he is a cleric in Holy Orders
so Crockfords is a must

and should be

data base Category Places Name Count Estimate

Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900 Directories & Member Lists
England; United Kingdom; Cambridgeshire; Europe 151,053

Oxford University Alumni, 1500-1886 Directories & Member Lists
England; United Kingdom; Oxfordshire; Europe 6,136,300
BINGO

Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
about Henry Wilmot Watson

Name: Henry Wilmot Watson
College: PEMBROKE
Entered: Michs. 1885
Died: 30 Jan 1940
More Information: Adm. pens. (age 20) at PEMBROKE, Oct. 1, 1885. S. of
Thomas Parker [civil-engineer], deceased [of The Cape of Good Hope]

B. [Mar. 3, 1866], at Odense, Isle of Funen, Denmark.

School, Cheltenham College. Matric. Michs. 1885; B.A. 1888; M.A. 1892.
Ord. deacon (Gloucester and Bristol) 1889;

priest, 1890; C. of St Michael's, Gloucester, 1889-91. C. of St Paul's,
Cambridge, 1891-1900. C. of Erith with St Paul's, Northumberland Heath,
Kent, 1900-5. V. of St Paul's, 1905-24. R. of Feniton, Devon, 1927-32.
Publ. Pr., dio. of Exeter, 1939-40. Died Jan. 30, 1940, at Teignmouth.
(Cheltenham Coll. Reg.; Crockford; J. T. Rule; The Times, Feb. 1, 1940.)

so his widowed mother remarried ??

BTW the engineering firm also built railways in South Africa as wellas
Canada

======================

or


1881 England Census
about William H. Watson
Name: William H. Watson
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Betsy
Gender: Male
Where born: Denmark

Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: 2 Colgrave Terrace Dunmow Rd


Occupation: Clerk

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick G. Cox 18
Annie N. Watson 14
Betsy Watson 49 Where born: Yaxley, Huntingdon, England
William Watson 50 Occupation: Railway Contractor Where born:
Thurlton, Norfolk, England
William H. Watson 17


View original image

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?ht ... id=4735281


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1707; Folio: 41; Page: 18; Line: ;
GSU roll: 1341408.



in 1851

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/vi ... rc=&zp=100


1851 England Census
about William Watson
Name: William Watson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich THURLTON

Civil Parish: Norwich Heigham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address: ???

Occupation: Smith


Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: West Wymer
ED, institution, or vessel: 8h
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Watson 21
William Watson 21



Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1816; Folio: 403; Page: 3; GSU
roll: 207469.


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

1891


1891 England Census
about Betsy Watson
Name: Betsy Watson
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Yaxley, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Stratford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England


Condition as to marriage: widow



Employment status: living on own means


Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Annie Cotton 27 visitor
Emma J Cotton 29 visitor
Mary Steel 61 visitor
Betsy Watson 59

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx ... d=18565938

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1314; Folio 78; Page 44; GSU roll:
6096424.






Richard van Schaik wrote:

Hugh Watkins wrote:

his employer was Peto, Brassey and Betts
my notes
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/pet ... betts.html
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2007/12/jys ... hives.html

but with the banking crisis the failed
and 14.3.1867 the danish state took over the line


Very nice, that gives some background on "my" William Watson also. Only
the reason for him to go to Russia is not yet clearcut (might pertain to
this banking crisis), but maybe the documents about this Danish Railway
do clarify this.

looking at the census your guy became a clergyman so check him out in
Crockfords - ask on SGB of course


I ofcourse remain a bit more interested in his sister (the Russia born
one). But solving this will tell a whole lot about the faring of this
family. I do have their 1881 census registration and onwards to the
deaths of his parents (couldn't find them yet in the 1871, but they
still could be abroad in that year). But also I did see that death certs
are not to helpfull in determining the surname of the mother. Just a bit
of luck needed there in the form of the informant.

his father signerd a testimonial

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/indiv ... n_2007.ged

Note: Anbefalingsskrivelse fra Danish Railways Constructors hvori det
er anført hvad Niels Askholm har lavet af stenhuggerarbejde for
selskabet.
stone cutter = mason -- or sculptor >?

http://www.baskholm.dk/phpgedview/media ... faling.png


You did sent that, and a huge thanks to you and Børge Askholm for
finding this for me.

Regards,
Richard


YAXLEY is critical
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SFK/Yaxley/index.html

Hugh W

--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

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