The future for Legacy?

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Paul Blair

The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 16 des 2005 09:47:55

It is probably time for the folk at Millennia to have a good long look
at their genealogy products, and think hard about where they might take
them, if they are to have a future.

I bought v4. When v5 came along, there seemed so little change that it
would have been daylight robbery to pay for so little. The same with v6.
The product has caught the Detroit Disease - a new model every year, but
when you look under the bonnet...you don't find anything really
different. And we know where Detroit is headed...

About a week before v6 was posted, a number of us were posted a user
name and password from a remailer, which proved ample to unlock the
standard program. I asked around my friends and acquaintances, and they
had either found out about the relatively simple protection on the
program, or had had the info passed along. I don't know what that cost
Millennia in sales, but this small town alone would have cost it more
than $6000. So they obviously need to protect their income, and not rely
on annual model changes of limited value to make a buck. If they make
the best product, they will get the best sales, and people will happily
part with their money. When people discuss Legacy, it always get
mentioned as "free"...not a happy association for a software house.

The present situation seems to me to reflect discontent by some -
perhaps the minority, but majority or minority, profit is profit.

Then they need to look at their product. I quite like it, even if it is
limited. Using MS Access is a one-size fits all solution, and with it
comes the best and worst of the product.

But Millennia aren't doing meaningful improvements - have a look at
Help/What's New in Legacy in v6, and all you will find is the difference
between standard and deluxe. So they really had nothing to tell us.

I did post my Christmas wish list a few days ago...and there are some
ideas there. As well, they need to look at their web page production
module, and redesign the output pages to match the accepted way that
people scan computer "pages".

They need some simple graphical flags to indicate "never married" (a
screen-only bar or symbol in the partners box would be simple to
design), and the same for no children.

A common complaint I hear about Legacy is the difficulty of showing
connections, hence 2 of my earlier Christmas list suggestions. Many
people find it difficult to visualise mildly complex family
relationships. All you usually need is a snippet - here is John, there
is Mary, and the connections are... All the free PHP programs can do it!

Some will agree, others disagree...but I offer this in the hope that a
reasonable product doesn't continue losing its way.

Have a happy Christmas.

Paul Blair
Australia

singhals

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av singhals » 16 des 2005 16:44:22

Paul Blair wrote:

It is probably time for the folk at Millennia to have a good long look
at their genealogy products, and think hard about where they might take
them, if they are to have a future.


And they _might_ also wish to consider whether moving to the bleeding
edge of technology is what all their customers wish to do. Many won't.



part with their money. When people discuss Legacy, it always get
mentioned as "free"...not a happy association for a software house.

This would be because of the fully functional old-version download one
can use -- free -- before committing to the purchase. Here I go again,
but not everyone has a spare $whatever it is to invest in one lump in
his/her hobby, regardless of how good an investment it might be over the
long run. (Not everyone wishes to spend $250,000 for a Lamborghini,
although it is custom built, well built and will last practically
forever; but the $12,000 for a whatsit is do-able.


Then they need to look at their product. I quite like it, even if it is
limited. Using MS Access is a one-size fits all solution, and with it
comes the best and worst of the product.

Doesn't work real well, I'm told, on Macs or *IX systems.


I did post my Christmas wish list a few days ago...and there are some
ideas there. As well, they need to look at their web page production
module, and redesign the output pages to match the accepted way that
people scan computer "pages".

The web-output is a lot less important than other factors, such as easy
of data-entry or speed of searches.

They need some simple graphical flags to indicate "never married" (a
screen-only bar or symbol in the partners box would be simple to
design), and the same for no children.

Gawd; please, no more graphical icons I have to decipher, and PLEASE not
so small that I need a magnifying glass to figure out if it's two
overlapped circles, an 8, or two triangles.

No Issue sounds like a fine thing to show, but only if you are 100%
certain it's true. I've found a whole bunch of people who were in 1937
noted as "They had no children" but in 1995, I turned them up on the
1900 census with 6 children.

A common complaint I hear about Legacy is the difficulty of showing
connections, hence 2 of my earlier Christmas list suggestions. Many
people find it difficult to visualise mildly complex family
relationships. All you usually need is a snippet - here is John, there
is Mary, and the connections are... All the free PHP programs can do it!

I don't have the problem, don't even quite know what Legacy does about
it or shows it now, but I doubt throwing more technology at it will
help. Remember, paper charts were replaced by electronics to do the
same thing: make it easier to see connections.


Some will agree, others disagree...but I offer this in the hope that a
reasonable product doesn't continue losing its way.

I suppose it depends on whether one agrees that Legacy IS losing its
way. There is no perfect program, and each of us given the tools and
the chance would design a different version of the "perfect" program.
There's something to recommend the advice my gggf gave my gf: if it's
still working, don't fool with it.

Cheryl

Gjest

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 des 2005 19:35:03

Hello guys an gals , I am not a user of that program , BUT i have a
comment , Where is it written " you must make changes in your product "
or is it really just to fool the people into thinking this is " Better Now "
, we have ' fooled ' with it , Will people buy or stop buying when they
find the change was mostly superficial ??? , an analogy is the Ford
Thunderbird , do you remember the 1955-6 edition ? , the 1957-8 ? or that
bloated thing that came later , People DID NOT buy it ! , now look at the
2005 Thunderbird , I piece of ART , best thing out of Ford in years , Does
it sell ???? My question to Legacy
is :
Are you changing the prog for the sake of change OR to actually make it
better ? , Phil

----- Original Message -----
From: "singhals" <singhals@erols.com>
To: <GENCMP-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: The future for Legacy?


Paul Blair wrote:


It is probably time for the folk at Millennia to have a good long look
at their genealogy products, and think hard about where they might take
them, if they are to have a future.

big snip ...

if it's
still working, don't fool with it.

Cheryl

Charlie Hoffpauir

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Charlie Hoffpauir » 16 des 2005 19:37:08

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:42 +0000 (UTC), joe2phil@drizzle.com wrote:

Hello guys an gals , I am not a user of that program , BUT i have a
comment , Where is it written " you must make changes in your product "
or is it really just to fool the people into thinking this is " Better Now "
, we have ' fooled ' with it , Will people buy or stop buying when they
find the change was mostly superficial ??? , an analogy is the Ford
Thunderbird , do you remember the 1955-6 edition ? , the 1957-8 ? or that
bloated thing that came later , People DID NOT buy it ! , now look at the
2005 Thunderbird , I piece of ART , best thing out of Ford in years , Does
it sell ???? My question to Legacy
is :
Are you changing the prog for the sake of change OR to actually make it
better ? , Phil


Well, I don't use Legacy either... but in my opinion, it's very "good"
for genealogy program vendors to make minor changes in their programs
every year or so. Most if not all of these changes are fairly
superficial, but they are the "tweaks" to the program that the heavy
users of the programs have requested. If the vendor continues to tweak
the program to meet the needs of the heavy users, it will continuously
evolve into a better program for all users. Those who don't need or
appreciate the perhaps subtle changes, don't need to upgrade every
year.... but those who do appreciate the changes can upgrade and
benefit from the changes.I see it as a win-win situation. In fact, I
can't see why anyone would see it any differently, since no one is
forced to upgrade, and in fact, many users go for years without
upgrading, and are perfectly happy.

OTOH, would any serious user of any genealogy program like it if the
vendor made a "drastic" change to the program? My bet would be that
the vendor would lose a large portion of the users, who would simply
decide to stay with what they were comfortable with. (like I did years
ago when PAF decided to make a Windows version)



Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 17 des 2005 04:45:44

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:47:55 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

But Millennia aren't doing meaningful improvements - have a look at
Help/What's New in Legacy in v6, and all you will find is the difference
between standard and deluxe. So they really had nothing to tell us.

I'm fairly happy with Legacy.

I started using it with v3, very experimentally, and when v4 came out I began
to use it seriously.

I did not switch to v5 immediately, because I was using it on a latop with
32Mb memory, and each successive version seemed to require more memory. My
desktop machine had more memory, but I swapped the data between the desktop
and the laptop when I went to archives etc. When my old laptop died, and I got
a new one with more memory, I got v5, and then decided to register and pay for
the Deluxe version, as I'd be likely to continue using it as my main genealogy
program.

Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

I did post my Christmas wish list a few days ago...and there are some
ideas there. As well, they need to look at their web page production
module, and redesign the output pages to match the accepted way that
people scan computer "pages".

My wish list for Legacy (or any other program) is two things:

1) A biography field, separate from the general notes one.

I realise that one can put biographies in general notes, and other notes in
"Research notes", but it would be nice to have something for a connected
narrative, and another for notes.

2) Events to which different people can be linked.

I think TMG has this. It seems to be breaking one of Codd's Laws to have to
duplicate event information for each participant in an event.

I'd actually like a different program designed specifically for events, and to
include not just family but other people as well. But that's a separate issue,
and trying to include that in Legacy would be too much of a "one size fits
all" solution.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 00:59:17

Steve Hayes wrote:

Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Paul

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 20 des 2005 02:12:25

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:59:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:


Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Haven't seen one yet.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 20 des 2005 04:37:02

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:12:25 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:59:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:


Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Haven't seen one yet.

One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

Hugh

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 20 des 2005 06:41:29

sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
news:43a77cf4.66192589@news1.news.adelphia.net:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:12:25 +0200, Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:59:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:


Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0
standard, or pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is
what new features there are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does
not have that make it worth paying for the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Haven't seen one yet.

One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

Hugh



Did I hear my name??? I don't want to be a sales person on the list <g>
I remember the slams that poor Paul Birchfield got when he tried to help
FTM users so for the most part, I try to stay quiet.

Hugh, your suggestion to go to our website is excellent. I don't think
anyone else can indicate whether new features are worth the upgrade price
for another person. Another suggestion would be to join the Legacy User
Group mailing list and ask the users there what they think of the new
features. The sign up page is at
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp.

Paul mentioned "But Millennia aren't doing meaningful improvements" - The
Research Guidance, Publishing Center and the Legacy Home tab, to name a
few, may not be meaningful to one person (they've done all their research
or they have no need to publish a book or they don't want quick access to
our website, daily issues of Legacy News, To-Do reminders or Birthday &
Anniversay reminders),but they might be to the next. The response to
Legacy v6 has been overwhelming for all of us so the upgrade has been
meaningful for thousands of users! Of course, there is always the option
to use the free Standard Edition and if you decide that you want the
Deluxe features, it's easy enough to purchase and enter your customer
number to unlock them!

Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 06:47:03

Sherry wrote:
sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
news:43a77cf4.66192589@news1.news.adelphia.net:


On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:12:25 +0200, Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:59:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:


Steve Hayes wrote:


Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0
standard, or pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is
what new features there are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does
not have that make it worth paying for the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Haven't seen one yet.

One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

Hugh




Did I hear my name??? I don't want to be a sales person on the list <g
I remember the slams that poor Paul Birchfield got when he tried to help
FTM users so for the most part, I try to stay quiet.

Hugh, your suggestion to go to our website is excellent. I don't think
anyone else can indicate whether new features are worth the upgrade price
for another person. Another suggestion would be to join the Legacy User
Group mailing list and ask the users there what they think of the new
features. The sign up page is at
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp.

Paul mentioned "But Millennia aren't doing meaningful improvements" - The
Research Guidance, Publishing Center and the Legacy Home tab, to name a
few, may not be meaningful to one person (they've done all their research
or they have no need to publish a book or they don't want quick access to
our website, daily issues of Legacy News, To-Do reminders or Birthday &
Anniversay reminders),but they might be to the next. The response to
Legacy v6 has been overwhelming for all of us so the upgrade has been
meaningful for thousands of users! Of course, there is always the option
to use the free Standard Edition and if you decide that you want the
Deluxe features, it's easy enough to purchase and enter your customer
number to unlock them!

Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com


Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research guidance....yawn.


Paul

Charani

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Charani » 20 des 2005 10:34:02

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair wrote:

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research guidance....yawn.

Since you don't like Legacy, why don't you use something else.

I find Legacy very good and very easy to use. Support's good and if
there are features that I don't want to use, I don't use them, but I
don't moan about them because whilst I might not have a use for some
features, I'm intelligent enough to know that other people might find
them both useful and helpful.

As far as I'm concerned, Legacy has a great future, especially as they
take note of what their users want.

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 10:59:44

Charani wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair wrote:


Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research guidance....yawn.


Since you don't like Legacy, why don't you use something else.

I find Legacy very good and very easy to use. Support's good and if
there are features that I don't want to use, I don't use them, but I
don't moan about them because whilst I might not have a use for some
features, I'm intelligent enough to know that other people might find
them both useful and helpful.

As far as I'm concerned, Legacy has a great future, especially as they
take note of what their users want.

Someone has asked if it is worth the price of the "upgrade". I contend
that the "upgrade" is cosmetic. We know you're vote...thank you.

Paul

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 11:08:06

Charani wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair wrote:


Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research guidance....yawn.


Since you don't like Legacy, why don't you use something else.

I find Legacy very good and very easy to use. Support's good and if
there are features that I don't want to use, I don't use them, but I
don't moan about them because whilst I might not have a use for some
features, I'm intelligent enough to know that other people might find
them both useful and helpful.

As far as I'm concerned, Legacy has a great future, especially as they
take note of what their users want.

Someone has asked if it is worth the price of the "upgrade". I contend
that the "upgrade" is cosmetic. We know your vote...thank you.

Paul

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 20 des 2005 14:56:02

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au>
wrote:

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research guidance....yawn.

Paul

To quote Sherry: "I don't think anyone else can indicate whether new
features are worth the upgrade price for another person."

I believe Paul just said it wasn't worth the upgrade price to him.
Sobeit!

Sherry - I didn't know you were here when Paul Burchfield was here
representing Banner Blue (remember that company?) and FTM. You must
have been a young child and allowed to read news groups but not post.
Cheryl was here.

You know better than to be abrasive so you encourage tact.

Hugh

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 20 des 2005 17:44:47

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:40:48 GMT, sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:12:25 +0200, Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:59:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:


Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

What was the reply, Steve?

Haven't seen one yet.

One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

Not really -- they are not discussed there, only described.

They could be discussed here if people who have begun using v 6.0 can say
what, IN THEIR EXPERIENCE, works better than v 5.0.




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 20 des 2005 18:30:49

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:44:47 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

Hugh responded:
One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

They could be discussed here if people who have begun using v 6.0 can say
what, IN THEIR EXPERIENCE, works better than v 5.0.

Well, Steve, you did not ask for a discussion of features in the post
to which I responded (printed above), you only wanted to know the
features that made it worth the upgrade.

The web site gives an accounting of the added features so I directed
you there. Had you asked for a discussion I would have let others
respond.

Hugh

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 20 des 2005 20:19:59

sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
news:43a80b5a.4538345@news1.news.adelphia.net:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research
guidance....yawn.

Paul

To quote Sherry: "I don't think anyone else can indicate whether new
features are worth the upgrade price for another person."

I believe Paul just said it wasn't worth the upgrade price to him.
Sobeit!

Sherry - I didn't know you were here when Paul Burchfield was here
representing Banner Blue (remember that company?) and FTM. You must
have been a young child and allowed to read news groups but not
post. Cheryl was here.

You know better than to be abrasive so you encourage tact.

Hugh



Hugh,

I do remember Banner Blue and I've been doing newsgroups for quite some
time now. I had a lot of "personal" correspondence with Paul about
problems and features. FTM v2 DOS was the first genealogy program I
used (bought it in 1993 and would you believe I still have it although
not installed). I switched to Legacy in 1997 when I first saw it
presented at our local genealogy society's computer interest group
(which I was coordinator of at the time) in Bellevue, Washington. When
they started working on web pages (1999), Ken asked if I wanted to be a
beta tester and a couple of years later asked if I wanted to work for
them. I was trying to get vested in my medical records job so I could
get full retirement benefits so at that time I didn't want to switch
jobs. In 2002 when I retired Ken found out about this later that
summer, he said "ok, you can work for us now! No excuses!"

I'm not as young as you think!!!

Sherry

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 20 des 2005 20:24:14

Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a79ad5$0$17703$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

<snip>

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research
guidance....yawn.

Paul


Paul,

What kind of features would you like to see?

The Publishing Center has been much requested. Research Guidance
probably not needed if you have GenSmarts (although a lot of our users
think that the Research Guidance and GenSmarts complement each other
because of the different focuses). A survey of users who bought Legacy
at the FGS conference, before the release, showed that the Legacy Home
tab was the most popular new feature.


Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 20 des 2005 20:35:25

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:19:59 -0600, Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote:

sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
news:43a80b5a.4538345@news1.news.adelphia.net:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:03 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research
guidance....yawn.

Paul

To quote Sherry: "I don't think anyone else can indicate whether new
features are worth the upgrade price for another person."

I believe Paul just said it wasn't worth the upgrade price to him.
Sobeit!

Sherry - I didn't know you were here when Paul Burchfield was here
representing Banner Blue (remember that company?) and FTM. You must
have been a young child and allowed to read news groups but not
post. Cheryl was here.

You know better than to be abrasive so you encourage tact.

Hugh



Hugh,

I do remember Banner Blue and I've been doing newsgroups for quite some
time now. I had a lot of "personal" correspondence with Paul about
problems and features. FTM v2 DOS was the first genealogy program I
used (bought it in 1993 and would you believe I still have it although
not installed). I switched to Legacy in 1997 when I first saw it
presented at our local genealogy society's computer interest group
(which I was coordinator of at the time) in Bellevue, Washington. When
they started working on web pages (1999), Ken asked if I wanted to be a
beta tester and a couple of years later asked if I wanted to work for
them. I was trying to get vested in my medical records job so I could
get full retirement benefits so at that time I didn't want to switch
jobs. In 2002 when I retired Ken found out about this later that
summer, he said "ok, you can work for us now! No excuses!"

I'm not as young as you think!!!

Sherry

I sorta stood up for Paul (most of the time). I thought he was doing
what a sales rep for the company ought to do. OTOH I didn't think FTM
was a very good program and I told him so (probably too often). With
the company changes Paul changed careers faster than he changed his
shorts (not that I have any inside info)! His picture was published a
few years ago and not on the Post Office Board. 8-)

A lot of people on that group wanted to be the Bulls of the Pasture.
8-) Now I think most of us are out to pasture.

Hugh

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 20:39:48

Sherry wrote:
Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a79ad5$0$17703$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

snip

Sherry has amply demonstrated my point. Home tab, Research
guidance....yawn.

Paul



Paul,

What kind of features would you like to see?

The Publishing Center has been much requested. Research Guidance
probably not needed if you have GenSmarts (although a lot of our users
think that the Research Guidance and GenSmarts complement each other
because of the different focuses). A survey of users who bought Legacy
at the FGS conference, before the release, showed that the Legacy Home
tab was the most popular new feature.


Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com



5 of the 6 panels in Legacy Home were already available in v5 and v4!
The other one is just company blurb. Where's the big deal there?

See my Christmas wishlist - further up....

Not the FTM Paul :-)

singhals

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av singhals » 20 des 2005 20:52:56

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:

Sherry - I didn't know you were here when Paul Burchfield was here
representing Banner Blue (remember that company?) and FTM. You must
have been a young child and allowed to read news groups but not post.
Cheryl was here.

And I've still got your welcome message!

Cheryl

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 20 des 2005 21:50:52

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:30:49 GMT, sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:44:47 +0200, Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

Hugh responded:
One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

They could be discussed here if people who have begun using v 6.0 can say
what, IN THEIR EXPERIENCE, works better than v 5.0.

Well, Steve, you did not ask for a discussion of features in the post
to which I responded (printed above), you only wanted to know the
features that made it worth the upgrade.

The web site gives an accounting of the added features so I directed
you there. Had you asked for a discussion I would have let others
respond.

I DID ask for a discussion. Asking what makes it "worth the upgrade" is asking
people who have upgraded to say why they are glad they did, or not glad they
did.

I was not asking for a list of features, I was asking for a value judgement on
how useful people found them. That implies a discussion.

So, do you have anything to say about how useful you find the new features in
Legacy 6.0?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 20 des 2005 22:37:42

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:50:52 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:30:49 GMT, sull1927@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:44:47 +0200, Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:

Now comes v6.0, and the alternative is to use v5.0 deluxe or v6.0 standard, or
pay again for the upgrade. So what I want to know is what new features there
are in 6.0 deluxethaty 5.0 deluxe does not have that make it worth paying for
the difference.

Hugh responded:
One way would be to visit the Millennia web site where the new
features are discussed. And I expect Sherry will be here any moment
now.

They could be discussed here if people who have begun using v 6.0 can say
what, IN THEIR EXPERIENCE, works better than v 5.0.

Well, Steve, you did not ask for a discussion of features in the post
to which I responded (printed above), you only wanted to know the
features that made it worth the upgrade.

The web site gives an accounting of the added features so I directed
you there. Had you asked for a discussion I would have let others
respond.

I DID ask for a discussion. Asking what makes it "worth the upgrade" is asking
people who have upgraded to say why they are glad they did, or not glad they
did.

I was not asking for a list of features, I was asking for a value judgement on
how useful people found them. That implies a discussion.

So, do you have anything to say about how useful you find the new features in
Legacy 6.0?

Not really. I keep two genealogy programs on the computer and keep
them upgraded. I could probably be satisfied with 3 versions earlier
of either program though. No worry, it's the kids inheritance I'm
spending.

My thought is that I'm willing to pay $50-$60 per year to stay up to
speed. I read the posts to both user groups every day and it's nice to
know what they are talking about. My preference though is one-on-ones
with an accomplished user instead of the group.

I do wait to upgrade until most of the bugs in upgrades have been
cleaned up. However I think many of the bugs are in the user vice the
program based on the comments. Win 98 just isn't the best OS any more.

In my opinion it is impossible to satisfy everyone. Each person can't
have his personalized tailor-made program for $29.95. So Legacy and
RootsMagic win a few and lose a few.

Hugh

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 20 des 2005 23:25:18

Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a85e0b$0$18198$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

<snip>
5 of the 6 panels in Legacy Home were already available in v5 and
v4! The other one is just company blurb. Where's the big deal there?

See my Christmas wishlist - further up....

Not the FTM Paul :-)

Paul,

The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new -
never before available. Options for other reminders are on the way.
The Statistics information was previously found (and still is) under
Help > General Information. More statistics are on the way. The
Updates was previously found under Internet > Check for Legacy Updates.
The Support links are entirely new (although the link to the Home Page
was and still is under the Internet menu) - never before have those
links been available through Legacy. The Legacy News shows all sorts
of genealogy news as well as information about updates and other Legacy
products. This will eventually replace the Legacy News mailing. The
current edition of the Legacy News has articles on Technology's Answer
to Time Capsules, Genealogy Numbering Systems Explained, Tips for
Getting Past Genealogy Burnout,City in Brazil Proposes Ban on Dying
(yeah, good luck!), Probate Sources, Legacy Tip: Organizing Sources,
FGS Early Bird Discount,Genealogy Guys Podcast, Legacy Tip: Backup and
File Restoration, Inflation Calculator for Genealogists.....(Ok, I'm
tired of typing the genealogy news and tips list - there are a bunch
more articles in the latest news)


Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 20 des 2005 23:56:58

Sherry wrote:
Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a85e0b$0$18198$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

snip

5 of the 6 panels in Legacy Home were already available in v5 and
v4! The other one is just company blurb. Where's the big deal there?

See my Christmas wishlist - further up....

Not the FTM Paul :-)


Paul,

The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new -
never before available.

To do was on the v5 menu bar. The next 2 were in v5. Legacy News has
been around in one form or another for a long time, only the delivery
mode has changed.

I see little hope for improvement, other than cosmetics, despite
"listening" to users.

Paul

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 21 des 2005 01:42:07

Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in news:43a88c41$0$17704$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:

<snip>

Paul,

The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new -
never before available.

To do was on the v5 menu bar. The next 2 were in v5. Legacy News has
been around in one form or another for a long time, only the delivery
mode has changed.

I see little hope for improvement, other than cosmetics, despite
"listening" to users.

Paul


Paul,

Correct, but there was no *reminder* list for the To-Dos. There wasn't
even a "Reminder date" as there is now on the window where you enter your
To-Do. You can set the reminder for any length of time out and then it
will pop up in the window "Oh, I need to have that researched by next
Tuesday" (Or "oh, our anniversary is in two weeks - better get the
flowers ordered" <rbg>)

Birthday and Anniversary *reminders* are totally new - take another look
at the Individual Information window in v5 and tell me if you see an
option there for "Birthday Reminder" or for "Anniversary Reminder" on the
Marriage Information window. Nor was there ever any reminders of any kind
for birthdays or anniversaries in previous versions of Legacy. The dates
were there, but nothing to pop up and let you know that the even is
drawing nigh.

True, Legacy News has been around for a long time - it's so much better
to have the highlights right there on the "front page" of Legacy and with
*daily* news rather than once a month!



Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 21 des 2005 02:31:10

Sherry wrote:
Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in news:43a88c41$0$17704$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:

snip


Paul,

The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new -
never before available.

To do was on the v5 menu bar. The next 2 were in v5. Legacy News has
been around in one form or another for a long time, only the delivery
mode has changed.

I see little hope for improvement, other than cosmetics, despite
"listening" to users.

Paul



Paul,

Correct, but there was no *reminder* list for the To-Dos. There wasn't
even a "Reminder date" as there is now on the window where you enter your
To-Do. You can set the reminder for any length of time out and then it
will pop up in the window "Oh, I need to have that researched by next
Tuesday" (Or "oh, our anniversary is in two weeks - better get the
flowers ordered" <rbg>)

Birthday and Anniversary *reminders* are totally new - take another look
at the Individual Information window in v5 and tell me if you see an
option there for "Birthday Reminder" or for "Anniversary Reminder" on the
Marriage Information window. Nor was there ever any reminders of any kind
for birthdays or anniversaries in previous versions of Legacy. The dates
were there, but nothing to pop up and let you know that the even is
drawing nigh.

True, Legacy News has been around for a long time - it's so much better
to have the highlights right there on the "front page" of Legacy and with
*daily* news rather than once a month!



Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com


And that's worth a full upgrade? So let's have a reminder for the
reminders, a to-do that logs itself, a pop-up that sets itself...sorry,
it doesn't cut the ice. You could do all this before in a report. All
you've done is alter the functionality.

Interesting that no-one else (except a company rep) seems to be voting
favourably here, in response to Steve's question about the *worth* of
the upgrade.

Paul

Laurence E Stephenson

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Laurence E Stephenson » 21 des 2005 04:30:09

On 21/12/05, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:
Interesting that no-one else (except a company rep) seems to be voting
favourably here, in response to Steve's question about the *worth* of
the upgrade.

Paul



Hi All,
As a tightwad Legacy 5 free user when Legacy 6 came out I upgraded to
version 6 Deluxe. The only way Steve to know if it is for you is to
suck it and see.

You and Paul and I all have different taste, needs, and abilities, so
what I like you may not.
Steve download the free version look around and play with it, read the
information on Legacy's web site and see what others say. Then make
your own decision.

I find the birthday and anniversary reminder great just to get an idea
of who shares what. The home page also at a glance lets you know of
your important To do's and gives ideas and information and news at a
glance. The update notification I also find handy. Most of these
things have been around in one form or another for some time, but now
they have been bought together to make life easier and means you don't
have to search for them.
There have been some new things added like the publishing centre and
others have been updated.
Don't be influenced by ONE persons idea of what makes a perfect
program, it doesn't exist.
--
Regards,
Laurence E Stephenson

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/steppayne

I am Researching:-
Butcher..............Stroud, Gloucestershire, England.................>1856
Fortune..............Berwickshire, Scotland................................>1858
Garlick...............Liverpool, Lancashire, England.....................>1863
Mee...................Kilflyn, Limerick, Ireland (Palatine)................>1884
Payne................Washingborough, Lincolnshire, England........>1863
Ritchie...............Bonhill, Dunbartonshire, Scotland.................>1860
Stephenson........Pickering, Yorkshire, England .....................>1856
Wittick...... .......(Convict) Walsall, Staffordshire, England........>1822

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 21 des 2005 04:31:12

Laurence E Stephenson wrote:
On 21/12/05, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Interesting that no-one else (except a company rep) seems to be voting
favourably here, in response to Steve's question about the *worth* of
the upgrade.

Paul




Hi All,
As a tightwad Legacy 5 free user when Legacy 6 came out I upgraded to
version 6 Deluxe. The only way Steve to know if it is for you is to
suck it and see.

Have you never suggested improvements to software to overcome perceived
shortcomings?

Paul

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 21 des 2005 06:08:59

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:25:18 -0600, Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote:

Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a85e0b$0$18198$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

snip

5 of the 6 panels in Legacy Home were already available in v5 and
v4! The other one is just company blurb. Where's the big deal there?

See my Christmas wishlist - further up....

And see mine too... and I have a few more.

I'm a very happy user of Legacy 5.0 deluxe, and I think it is a very good
program. I'm also grateful for your participation in this newsgroup, and for
the help you have given to usders, including me.

But like Paul, I am concerned that Legacy seems to be losing its focus, adding
bells and whistles instead of the important stuff. One can see this in lots of
programs that lose sight odf their core business. The latest version of MS
Word has some defects in its abilty to process words, and lacks some features
that are in XyWrite III+, a program over 15 years old that got it right the
first time. Word has more bells and whistles, but it comes short in processing
words. Please don't let that happen to Legacy.

The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new -
never before available. Options for other reminders are on the way.

Aye, but Legacy is supposed to be a genealogy program, not a personal
information manager. If I want birthday reminders I use a PIM like MS Outlook,
or Yahoo Calendar (and synchronise between them).

My Legacy v.5 already prints calendars with birthdays, and I can use that to
choose which ones to put in my PIM. I need reminders for the birthdays of my
friends and people I see frequently, who are not directly related and aren't
in Legacy, and I don't need them for my 8th cousin in Australia whom I've
never met, and never responded to the family letter I sent her 3 years ago
asking for updates on family info.

I already listed some of the things I would like to see that enhance the
*genealogical* capabilities of Legacty, but here are some of them again, and a
few more for good measure:

1) A biography field, in addition to the "General Notes" field.

2) Provision for linking documents like family letters or news items to
reports, perhaps by OLE.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

the_verminator@comcast.ne

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av the_verminator@comcast.ne » 21 des 2005 07:40:01

Steve Hayes wrote:

Aye, but Legacy is supposed to be a genealogy program, not a personal
information manager. If I want birthday reminders I use a PIM like MS Outlook,
or Yahoo Calendar (and synchronise between them).

My Legacy v.5 already prints calendars with birthdays, and I can use that to
choose which ones to put in my PIM. I need reminders for the birthdays of my
friends and people I see frequently, who are not directly related and aren't
in Legacy, and I don't need them for my 8th cousin in Australia whom I've
never met, and never responded to the family letter I sent her 3 years ago
asking for updates on family info.

BINGO !

I want to manage my genealogy- NOT have my genealogy program managing
my life!!

--
The Verminator

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 21 des 2005 15:19:02

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:31:12 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au>
wrote:

Have you never suggested improvements to software to overcome perceived
shortcomings?

Paul

I have had several lengthy private discussions with one
programmer/owner and each of my suggestions has been adopted. But I
never suggested anything that would not be beneficial to a majority of
users. I would not have expected a change that would have benefitted
only a few. I also understand the difference between genealogy and
family history - I lean toward the latter except it has to have some
basis in genealogy, i. e. the pursuit of bloodlines.

My general thought has been to make programs more flexible, i. e.,
have defaults but also have the ability to change most features to
accomodate one's personal tastes. A genealogy program is much like a
car - it needs an engine to operate but not everyone has a GPS
installed. I still use road maps but one son has a GPS in his
Navigator. I can even refold a road map properly. 8-)

I would never tell a programmer to look at my list of Christmas
wishes. I would prefer to discuss each request separately, one-on-one.
Okay, I like personal attention also. 8-) My purpose is to be
successful or have him explain why it can't be done. I have not found
a programmer who is unwilling to discuss reasonable requests.

I want a data base that will record what I input with the ability to
print that data in a format of my choosing. I want the printout to
have a very nice appearance and be editable without diminishing the
appearance. That's all I need. Well, I don't like cluttered screens.
If I wanted a more personalized data base I would pay a friend a thou
or two to write it for me.

My point is not to dictate what others need to have in a genealogy
program. Rather it is to allude to the wide range of needs and the
difficulty to program for everyone and sell at a reasonable cost.

RootsMagic has a demo and a pay for version; Legacy has a freebie and
a DeLuxe - that gives one three choices. The third is to use another
program if it allows you to tee the golf ball better for driving. Or
do as I do, use a souped up renegade ball for driving and another for
short shots and putting. 8-) I shot better than my age twice last
year.

Merry Christmas - and being in South Africa do you have a spare, LARGE
diamond you could send for my wife to use as a demo?

I trust you will see the attempt at humor in my response!

Hugh

Charani

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Charani » 21 des 2005 16:57:02

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:59:44 +1100, Paul Blair wrote:

Someone has asked if it is worth the price of the "upgrade". I contend
that the "upgrade" is cosmetic. We know you're vote...thank you.

I wasn't aware that this was a voting issue or that you would decide
the future of Legacy on the outcome.

The upgrade is cosmetic to you, but, as has also been noted by someone
else, may not be to others.

PS It's "your vote" not "you're vote" which is short for "you are
vote".

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 21 des 2005 20:38:30

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:31:12 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:


Have you never suggested improvements to software to overcome perceived
shortcomings?

Paul


I have had several lengthy private discussions with one
programmer/owner and each of my suggestions has been adopted. But I
never suggested anything that would not be beneficial to a majority of
users. I would not have expected a change that would have benefitted
only a few. I also understand the difference between genealogy and
family history - I lean toward the latter except it has to have some
basis in genealogy, i. e. the pursuit of bloodlines.

My general thought has been to make programs more flexible, i. e.,
have defaults but also have the ability to change most features to
accomodate one's personal tastes. A genealogy program is much like a
car - it needs an engine to operate but not everyone has a GPS
installed. I still use road maps but one son has a GPS in his
Navigator. I can even refold a road map properly. 8-)

I would never tell a programmer to look at my list of Christmas
wishes. I would prefer to discuss each request separately, one-on-one.
Okay, I like personal attention also. 8-) My purpose is to be
successful or have him explain why it can't be done. I have not found
a programmer who is unwilling to discuss reasonable requests.

I want a data base that will record what I input with the ability to
print that data in a format of my choosing. I want the printout to
have a very nice appearance and be editable without diminishing the
appearance. That's all I need. Well, I don't like cluttered screens.
If I wanted a more personalized data base I would pay a friend a thou
or two to write it for me.

My point is not to dictate what others need to have in a genealogy
program. Rather it is to allude to the wide range of needs and the
difficulty to program for everyone and sell at a reasonable cost.

RootsMagic has a demo and a pay for version; Legacy has a freebie and
a DeLuxe - that gives one three choices. The third is to use another
program if it allows you to tee the golf ball better for driving. Or
do as I do, use a souped up renegade ball for driving and another for
short shots and putting. 8-) I shot better than my age twice last
year.

Merry Christmas - and being in South Africa do you have a spare, LARGE
diamond you could send for my wife to use as a demo?

I trust you will see the attempt at humor in my response!

Hugh

Actually Hugh, I'm in Australia. Steve is in RSA. Oh to be in the USA,
where you're allowed to ask for improvements! :-)

Paul

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 21 des 2005 22:05:41

Charani wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:59:44 +1100, Paul Blair wrote:


Someone has asked if it is worth the price of the "upgrade". I contend
that the "upgrade" is cosmetic. We know you're vote...thank you.


I wasn't aware that this was a voting issue or that you would decide
the future of Legacy on the outcome.

The upgrade is cosmetic to you, but, as has also been noted by someone
else, may not be to others.

PS It's "your vote" not "you're vote" which is short for "you are
vote".

QED!

Paul

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 21 des 2005 22:44:10

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:38:30 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au>
wrote:

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:31:12 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:


Have you never suggested improvements to software to overcome perceived
shortcomings?

Paul


I have had several lengthy private discussions with one
programmer/owner and each of my suggestions has been adopted. But I
never suggested anything that would not be beneficial to a majority of
users. I would not have expected a change that would have benefitted
only a few. I also understand the difference between genealogy and
family history - I lean toward the latter except it has to have some
basis in genealogy, i. e. the pursuit of bloodlines.

My general thought has been to make programs more flexible, i. e.,
have defaults but also have the ability to change most features to
accomodate one's personal tastes. A genealogy program is much like a
car - it needs an engine to operate but not everyone has a GPS
installed. I still use road maps but one son has a GPS in his
Navigator. I can even refold a road map properly. 8-)

I would never tell a programmer to look at my list of Christmas
wishes. I would prefer to discuss each request separately, one-on-one.
Okay, I like personal attention also. 8-) My purpose is to be
successful or have him explain why it can't be done. I have not found
a programmer who is unwilling to discuss reasonable requests.

I want a data base that will record what I input with the ability to
print that data in a format of my choosing. I want the printout to
have a very nice appearance and be editable without diminishing the
appearance. That's all I need. Well, I don't like cluttered screens.
If I wanted a more personalized data base I would pay a friend a thou
or two to write it for me.

My point is not to dictate what others need to have in a genealogy
program. Rather it is to allude to the wide range of needs and the
difficulty to program for everyone and sell at a reasonable cost.

RootsMagic has a demo and a pay for version; Legacy has a freebie and
a DeLuxe - that gives one three choices. The third is to use another
program if it allows you to tee the golf ball better for driving. Or
do as I do, use a souped up renegade ball for driving and another for
short shots and putting. 8-) I shot better than my age twice last
year.

Merry Christmas - and being in South Africa do you have a spare, LARGE
diamond you could send for my wife to use as a demo?

I trust you will see the attempt at humor in my response!

Hugh

Actually Hugh, I'm in Australia. Steve is in RSA. Oh to be in the USA,
where you're allowed to ask for improvements! :-)

Paul

I'm an old man and have a hard time keeping up. Would you have any
diamonds??? I don't need any roos or brown snakes.

Knowing Sherry I have the feeling that each person is a customer or a
potential customer and her treatment in every case would be identical.


I find it hard to believe I've never been to Australia. G'day, mate.

Hugh

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 21 des 2005 22:47:37

J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:38:30 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:


J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:31:12 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au
wrote:



Have you never suggested improvements to software to overcome perceived
shortcomings?

Paul


I have had several lengthy private discussions with one
programmer/owner and each of my suggestions has been adopted. But I
never suggested anything that would not be beneficial to a majority of
users. I would not have expected a change that would have benefitted
only a few. I also understand the difference between genealogy and
family history - I lean toward the latter except it has to have some
basis in genealogy, i. e. the pursuit of bloodlines.

My general thought has been to make programs more flexible, i. e.,
have defaults but also have the ability to change most features to
accomodate one's personal tastes. A genealogy program is much like a
car - it needs an engine to operate but not everyone has a GPS
installed. I still use road maps but one son has a GPS in his
Navigator. I can even refold a road map properly. 8-)

I would never tell a programmer to look at my list of Christmas
wishes. I would prefer to discuss each request separately, one-on-one.
Okay, I like personal attention also. 8-) My purpose is to be
successful or have him explain why it can't be done. I have not found
a programmer who is unwilling to discuss reasonable requests.

I want a data base that will record what I input with the ability to
print that data in a format of my choosing. I want the printout to
have a very nice appearance and be editable without diminishing the
appearance. That's all I need. Well, I don't like cluttered screens.
If I wanted a more personalized data base I would pay a friend a thou
or two to write it for me.

My point is not to dictate what others need to have in a genealogy
program. Rather it is to allude to the wide range of needs and the
difficulty to program for everyone and sell at a reasonable cost.

RootsMagic has a demo and a pay for version; Legacy has a freebie and
a DeLuxe - that gives one three choices. The third is to use another
program if it allows you to tee the golf ball better for driving. Or
do as I do, use a souped up renegade ball for driving and another for
short shots and putting. 8-) I shot better than my age twice last
year.

Merry Christmas - and being in South Africa do you have a spare, LARGE
diamond you could send for my wife to use as a demo?

I trust you will see the attempt at humor in my response!

Hugh

Actually Hugh, I'm in Australia. Steve is in RSA. Oh to be in the USA,
where you're allowed to ask for improvements! :-)

Paul


I'm an old man and have a hard time keeping up. Would you have any
diamonds??? I don't need any roos or brown snakes.

Knowing Sherry I have the feeling that each person is a customer or a
potential customer and her treatment in every case would be identical.


I find it hard to believe I've never been to Australia. G'day, mate.

Hugh

Forget diamonds. Go for opals....wonderful stones.

Sherry is not really listening, I feel. So be it...it's her future! Or
not...

Paul

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 22 des 2005 00:10:39

Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a9cd76$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

<snip>
Sherry is not really listening, I feel. So be it...it's her future!
Or not...

Paul

Ummm..... still waiting to hear what you think needs to be in a
genealogy program..... Unfortunately I missed the message that you
referred to.

Enhancements to Legacy are customer driven. Obviously, the programmers
can't include *all* enhancements that are requested, but all of the
requests received are logged and reviewed. Some unfortunately are just
not feasible in the program due to the background structure of the
database but the vast majority of enhancements are as a result of
suggestions from customers.

For example, the Publishing Center - we've had a *lot* of request for a
way to create a book that would include various types of reports with
one index and TOC for all of the reports - and that was a major new
feature in v6. Timelines were another much requested feature.

So if you're a Legacy user and have any great ideas for us, feel free
to email them to me directly to Support@MillenniaCorp.com and I'll add
them to the list.

Not surprisingly, many features requested are already in the program
and the users just haven't found them yet!

Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

Sherry

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Sherry » 22 des 2005 00:13:24

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:20ohq1to270t9lf0lf2ri6js3in7c05pbg@4ax.com:

<snip>
The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new
- never before available. Options for other reminders are on the
way.

Aye, but Legacy is supposed to be a genealogy program, not a
personal information manager. If I want birthday reminders I use a
PIM like MS Outlook, or Yahoo Calendar (and synchronise between
them).


This was a feature much requested by our users.

<snip>

I already listed some of the things I would like to see that enhance
the *genealogical* capabilities of Legacty, but here are some of
them again, and a few more for good measure:

1) A biography field, in addition to the "General Notes" field.

That's the purpose of the General Notes - to create a biography of the
individual. Research notes are there for keeping track of research
details (maybe a "thinking on paper" process) and there are Medical
Notes for keeping track of medical history. I guess I don't understand
the need for a "Biography" field"?


2) Provision for linking documents like family letters or news items
to reports, perhaps by OLE.


This is very high on the list of things to do for the programmers.
Currently documents can be linked in the Picture Gallery using the
Sound or Video button.



Sherry
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
Support@MillenniaCorp.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 22 des 2005 00:24:17

Sherry wrote:
Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote in
news:43a9cd76$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

snip

Sherry is not really listening, I feel. So be it...it's her future!
Or not...

Paul


Ummm..... still waiting to hear what you think needs to be in a
genealogy program..... Unfortunately I missed the message that you
referred to.

It is mirrored all over....

Enhancements to Legacy are customer driven. Obviously, the programmers
can't include *all* enhancements that are requested, but all of the
requests received are logged and reviewed. Some unfortunately are just
not feasible in the program due to the background structure of the
database but the vast majority of enhancements are as a result of
suggestions from customers.

For example, the Publishing Center - we've had a *lot* of request for a
way to create a book that would include various types of reports with
one index and TOC for all of the reports - and that was a major new
feature in v6. Timelines were another much requested feature.

You've said this over and over...hardly a genealogy or family history
thing....was there anything else?

So if you're a Legacy user and have any great ideas for us, feel free
to email them to me directly to Support@MillenniaCorp.com and I'll add
them to the list.

Not surprisingly, many features requested are already in the program
and the users just haven't found them yet!


As a response, it would be hard to see that Legacy has a future. I no
longer recommend it to folk.

Paul

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 22 des 2005 01:34:07

Paul Blair wrote:
Sherry wrote:


For example, the Publishing Center - we've had a *lot* of request for
a way to create a book that would include various types of reports
with one index and TOC for all of the reports - and that was a major
new feature in v6. Timelines were another much requested feature.


BTW, it seems impossible to turn off RINs and MRINs on books (tick or
untick the box, it makes no difference...)

Paul

Dave Hinz

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Dave Hinz » 22 des 2005 01:34:52

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:24:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:
Sherry wrote:

Ummm..... still waiting to hear what you think needs to be in a
genealogy program..... Unfortunately I missed the message that you
referred to.

It is mirrored all over....

For what it's worth, I never saw any post from you with actual
suggestions either. Plenty of griping and criticism, but short on
actual useful suggestions.

So if you're a Legacy user and have any great ideas for us, feel free
to email them to me directly to Support@MillenniaCorp.com and I'll add
them to the list.

As a response, it would be hard to see that Legacy has a future. I no
longer recommend it to folk.

Based on what I've seen here, I'd be hesitant to take software advice
from you, Paul.

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 22 des 2005 02:15:57

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:24:17 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Sherry wrote:


Ummm..... still waiting to hear what you think needs to be in a
genealogy program..... Unfortunately I missed the message that you
referred to.


It is mirrored all over....


For what it's worth, I never saw any post from you with actual
suggestions either. Plenty of griping and criticism, but short on
actual useful suggestions.


So if you're a Legacy user and have any great ideas for us, feel free
to email them to me directly to Support@MillenniaCorp.com and I'll add
them to the list.


As a response, it would be hard to see that Legacy has a future. I no
longer recommend it to folk.


Based on what I've seen here, I'd be hesitant to take software advice
from you, Paul.


Let's be mannerly, Dave, shall we, and stick with the software?

Paul

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 22 des 2005 07:23:34

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:13:24 -0600, Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:20ohq1to270t9lf0lf2ri6js3in7c05pbg@4ax.com:

snip
The To-Do and Birthday and Anniversary reminders are completely new
- never before available. Options for other reminders are on the
way.

Aye, but Legacy is supposed to be a genealogy program, not a
personal information manager. If I want birthday reminders I use a
PIM like MS Outlook, or Yahoo Calendar (and synchronise between
them).

This was a feature much requested by our users.

Thanks very much for the reply.

I already listed some of the things I would like to see that enhance
the *genealogical* capabilities of Legacty, but here are some of
them again, and a few more for good measure:

1) A biography field, in addition to the "General Notes" field.

That's the purpose of the General Notes - to create a biography of the
individual. Research notes are there for keeping track of research
details (maybe a "thinking on paper" process) and there are Medical
Notes for keeping track of medical history. I guess I don't understand
the need for a "Biography" field"?

In the same way as I don't understand the need for a genealogy program to give
reminders of birthdays :-)

But seriously, I use the research notes field for my own research, thinking on
paper, as you suggest, which I don't always want to share with others.

But there are other notes that I *do* want to share with others -- personal
anecdotes, excerpts from letters and diaries, and so on. Some of them fit into
the "Events" category, but others don't. And they don't fit into a connected
biographical narrative either, except, perhaps, as footnotes, or as an
appendix.

2) Provision for linking documents like family letters or news items
to reports, perhaps by OLE.


This is very high on the list of things to do for the programmers.
Currently documents can be linked in the Picture Gallery using the
Sound or Video button.

Now I'd never have thought of looking there :-)

But I'm glad to here it's on the list.

And there's another thing on my wish list:

Linking different people to the same event, instead of having to enter the
event separately under each person (I'm sure that's against Codd's law!) A
census, for example. People present at a family reunion. People involved in a
car accident or plane crash.






--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

dn17613
Innlegg: 313
Registrert: 02 des 2004 21:10:00
Sted: TÅRNÅSEN

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av dn17613 » 22 des 2005 11:50:53

Paul Blair skrev:Paul Blair wrote:

BTW, it seems impossible to turn off RINs and MRINs on books (tick or
untick the box, it makes no difference...)

Paul


THen you need to upgrade to the latest version, because that does work.

André Reitan

Dave Hinz

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Dave Hinz » 22 des 2005 14:13:28

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:15:57 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

For what it's worth, I never saw any post from you with actual
suggestions either. Plenty of griping and criticism, but short on
actual useful suggestions.

Paul Blair wrote:

As a response, it would be hard to see that Legacy has a future. I no
longer recommend it to folk.

Based on what I've seen here, I'd be hesitant to take software advice
from you, Paul.

Let's be mannerly, Dave, shall we, and stick with the software?

Sure. When were you planning to start?

Lars Erik Bryld

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Lars Erik Bryld » 22 des 2005 18:56:41

Scripsit Steve Hayes:

Linking different people to the same event, instead of having to
enter the event separately under each person (I'm sure that's
against Codd's law!) A census, for example. People present at a
family reunion. People involved in a car accident or plane crash.

I migrated from Legacy v5 DeLuxe to Genbox precisely in order to get
support for witnesses (or any other way of having an unlimited number
of persons attached to the same event). Because of several years of
veneration for Legacy I would have been prepared to consider reverting
back to Legacy v6, had the so-called upgrade begun to honor this
often-requested feature. Looks like I'll be staying away from Legacy
for a considerable time being.

I know that witness support require a fundamental re-design of the
underlying database structure, and I strongly suspect that this
painful realisation, rather than customer pleas for more newsflash/
reminders, is the actual reason behind Millenia's priorities.
Nevertheless, witness support IMO is a must-have in a genealogy
application worthy of consideration by seasoned genealogists.

--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 22 des 2005 20:36:43

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:56:41 +0100, Lars Erik Bryld
<larserik@dadlnet.invalid> wrote:

Scripsit Steve Hayes:

Linking different people to the same event, instead of having to
enter the event separately under each person (I'm sure that's
against Codd's law!) A census, for example. People present at a
family reunion. People involved in a car accident or plane crash.

I migrated from Legacy v5 DeLuxe to Genbox precisely in order to get
support for witnesses (or any other way of having an unlimited number
of persons attached to the same event). Because of several years of
veneration for Legacy I would have been prepared to consider reverting
back to Legacy v6, had the so-called upgrade begun to honor this
often-requested feature. Looks like I'll be staying away from Legacy
for a considerable time being.

I know that witness support require a fundamental re-design of the
underlying database structure, and I strongly suspect that this
painful realisation, rather than customer pleas for more newsflash/
reminders, is the actual reason behind Millenia's priorities.
Nevertheless, witness support IMO is a must-have in a genealogy
application worthy of consideration by seasoned genealogists.

--
Med venlig hilsen
Lars Erik Bryld

Interesting. I tried Genbox a few months ago and deleted it almost as
fast as I deleted FTM. We probably don't drive the same make car
either. 8-)

Hugh

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 22 des 2005 20:55:59

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:15:57 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:


For what it's worth, I never saw any post from you with actual
suggestions either. Plenty of griping and criticism, but short on
actual useful suggestions.



Paul Blair wrote:


As a response, it would be hard to see that Legacy has a future. I no
longer recommend it to folk.


Based on what I've seen here, I'd be hesitant to take software advice
from you, Paul.


Let's be mannerly, Dave, shall we, and stick with the software?


Sure. When were you planning to start?


How about here? Access, in its next incarnation, will be a very
different beast to the one that currently supports Legacy. Whether or
not Legacy decides to keep up/catch up with the game remains to be seen.

But the concept of a single database sitting on your computer looks
likely to change - the web is being more widely used to share things
(look at phpGedView for an example) and that seems to be the way Access
is going. New concepts - a time for the writers to build in other ideas.
The betas for Access 12 are showing that there will be a considerable
change in the way things are done.

Paul Blair

singhals

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av singhals » 22 des 2005 23:51:37

Paul Blair wrote:

But the concept of a single database sitting on your computer looks
likely to change - the web is being more widely used to share things
(look at phpGedView for an example) and that seems to be the way Access
is going. New concepts - a time for the writers to build in other ideas.
The betas for Access 12 are showing that there will be a considerable
change in the way things are done.


Many of us haven't had a single database sitting on our computer since
about 1990. Most of us have at least two, often four or 5, database
programs sitting there for various purposes because none of them do
everything the way we want it.

Cheryl

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 23 des 2005 00:00:28

singhals wrote:
Paul Blair wrote:

But the concept of a single database sitting on your computer looks
likely to change - the web is being more widely used to share things
(look at phpGedView for an example) and that seems to be the way
Access is going. New concepts - a time for the writers to build in
other ideas. The betas for Access 12 are showing that there will be a
considerable change in the way things are done.



Many of us haven't had a single database sitting on our computer since
about 1990. Most of us have at least two, often four or 5, database
programs sitting there for various purposes because none of them do
everything the way we want it.

Cheryl


Well said. So lets see if we can't get things the way we want them, not
the way a company decides for us! An ally at last! :-)

Enjoy the Season

Paul

J. Hugh Sullivan

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av J. Hugh Sullivan » 23 des 2005 12:34:03

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:28 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au>
wrote:

More precisely he sent an e-mail.....

As I viewed the attachments Paul sent they seem to fit my idea of what
a program could/should do. He is talking about different reports and,
as I mentioned before, I am for flexibility and options, not everybody
fitting the same mold.

I enjoy speaking to something I know nothing about so...

Isn't a report merely a print out of a different way to sort? I
presume the data is already in the data base.

Also, isn't this the main reason we have multiple programs on our
computers? We want to present our data in different formats. I don't
mind (too much) having calendar reminders in a genealogy program but
I'm not going to use them. However, give me a report that will present
the data better or help me to analyze and I'll buy it. That is not to
suggest that a company should or will adopt every suggestion. The
saleability should equal or exceed the complexity of programming.

I got a report added by doing essentially the same thing Paul did for
me. I asked for the report and was asked to explain. I did a diagram
of what I wanted, I gave reasons the report should be included, I
discussed defaults and options and I had the ear of the
owner/programmer. Right or wrong I like to think I showed a little
savvy so he listened.

I discussed a few problems with another programmer after I had used a
stop watch on several programs for comparison - I was unsuccessful
that time. C'est la vie.

I discussed using the "name known by" in FTM vice the only option
being use of the first name. They made no effort (at that time anyhow)
so my final response alluded to the spot where I thought their program
should be placed.

I warned you up front that I didn't know what I was talking about!

Hugh

Peter J Seymour

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Peter J Seymour » 23 des 2005 14:52:41

Paul Blair wrote:
It is probably time for the folk at Millennia to have a good long look
at their genealogy products, and think hard about where they might take
them,
......
Paul Blair
Australia

Reading all these responses reminds me about dealing with IBM regarding

their software. If it was a problem they wanted to know specifically
what the problem was and why it was a problem (and usually but not
always they would fix it). If it was for a new feature, they wanted to
know what the business problem was that the 'feature' was supposed to
address, rather than merely receive requests to implement 'solutions' to
an unidentified problem.
So for instance in the current discussion, rather than want this or that
report, or this or that tweak to the program, what may be more helpful
is a statement of what one is trying to achieve, which might even be a
rather general statement. Software developers can then collate such
statements and perhaps arrive at a more useful change than some minor
adjustments.
Do you see where I am coming from?
Regards
Peter

singhals

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av singhals » 23 des 2005 16:34:13

Paul Blair wrote:

singhals wrote:

Paul Blair wrote:

But the concept of a single database sitting on your computer looks
likely to change - the web is being more widely used to share things
(look at phpGedView for an example) and that seems to be the way
Access is going. New concepts - a time for the writers to build in
other ideas. The betas for Access 12 are showing that there will be a
considerable change in the way things are done.




Many of us haven't had a single database sitting on our computer since
about 1990. Most of us have at least two, often four or 5, database
programs sitting there for various purposes because none of them do
everything the way we want it.

Cheryl


Well said. So lets see if we can't get things the way we want them, not
the way a company decides for us! An ally at last! :-)

No, I'm not an ally, and no we will NEVER get things the way we want
them because everyone wants something different and no program can be
all things to all people. Something You want, I might not; something I
want, Dave won't; something Dave wants, Hugh won't; and something Hugh
wants, Bob won't etc ad nauseum. Life is too short.


Cheryl

Paul Blair

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Paul Blair » 23 des 2005 19:34:23

Peter J Seymour wrote:
Paul Blair wrote:


It is probably time for the folk at Millennia to have a good long look
at their genealogy products, and think hard about where they might take
them,

.....

Paul Blair
Australia

Reading all these responses reminds me about dealing with IBM regarding
their software. If it was a problem they wanted to know specifically
what the problem was and why it was a problem (and usually but not
always they would fix it). If it was for a new feature, they wanted to
know what the business problem was that the 'feature' was supposed to
address, rather than merely receive requests to implement 'solutions' to
an unidentified problem.
So for instance in the current discussion, rather than want this or that
report, or this or that tweak to the program, what may be more helpful
is a statement of what one is trying to achieve, which might even be a
rather general statement. Software developers can then collate such
statements and perhaps arrive at a more useful change than some minor
adjustments.
Do you see where I am coming from?
Regards
Peter

Absolutely. And I've written enough "mission statements" and RFCs to
know that (eventually) you have to get down to tin tacks.

Just about all the genie software I have used stores data safely and
sensibly. I could do the same on a block of 5x3 cards (in fact, one of
Australia's best family researchers does just that - about 20,000 of
them. He is quite in command of the situation..!) Bunging together some
code to build a tree is quite easy. What I'm really paying for are the
extra things I want the program to do. Hence this discussion.

But if you accept the software on offer, is there a problem with wanting
some additions? The companies seem OK with accepting suggestions, but
users here seem to be in the other camp. Don't rock the boat.

I've been quite surprised by the number of responses thru the group, and
direct to me, that people use more than one program because none of them
have all the things they want. Take a look at anything else where you
use that many applications to undertake one task? That's the root of my
contention.

Enjoy the Season, the discussion here has had some value... :-)

Paul

Steve Hayes

Re: The future for Legacy?

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 24 des 2005 04:31:56

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 05:34:23 +1100, Paul Blair <pblair@pcug.org.au> wrote:

I've been quite surprised by the number of responses thru the group, and
direct to me, that people use more than one program because none of them
have all the things they want. Take a look at anything else where you
use that many applications to undertake one task? That's the root of my
contention.

Since I started using Legacy, however, I've been using fewer programs.

The first genealogy program I used was Roots/M, which ran under CP/M, and kept
all its data in memory. That was unsatisfactory because I had to split my data
into several different family groups -- 64k of memory wasn't enough.

When I got an MS-DOS machine (in 1987) I tried several programs, but the one i
eventually settled for was Family History System by Philip Brown.

Like Legacy it had a free version, and you paid for extras.

It was a good program, and I still use it today. I enter everything there
first. In particular, it does reports that can easily be posted as parts of
queries in newsgroups, mailing lists and BBS conferences.

But it is weak on sources, and dates of events such as baptisms.

So eventually I was keeping my data in 4 programs: FHS, PAF, Family Origins
and the Family Edge. Each could do something that the others couldn't.

In 2002 I started using Legacy, and gradually dropped all the others except
FHS, because Legacy could do most of the things that they did.

I started using PAF 4.0, however, because I found Legacy did not import data
properly from GEDCOM files produced by FHS. It would scramble the RINs. So I
use PAF 4.0 mainly for transfet. When I've accumulated enough new records in
FHS, I expert them to PAF 4.0, and from there directly into Legacy.

So Legacy has *most* of what I want in a genealogy program.

So why do I still use FHS, which hasn't been updated since 1993?

Well one reason is that it can produce reports like this, which, to my
knowledge, none of the other programs can do. To get that information in
Legacy (and most of the others) you would have to have four separate Family
Group Reports, none of which would show all her children. And it can be
formatted as a text file to import into a newsgroup message like this one.

Family Group Report
For: Margaret Agnes Ann Green (ID= 935)
Date Prepared: 24 Dec 2005

NAME: GREEN, Margaret Agnes Ann, Born 8 Dec 1835 in Nova Scotia,
Died 26 Dec 1902 in Marrickville, NSW, AUS at age 67; FATHER:
GREEN, William John (Goodall), Born 28 Aug 1790, Died 9 Apr
1866 at age 75; MOTHER: GRAY, Margaret, Born 18 May 1795, Died
11 May 1844? at age 48

MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES, Walter William
McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar
1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES,
Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74;
MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane

MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide,
SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841 in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria,
Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William, Born
??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane;
Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide, because
Sydney marriage was bigamous.

MARRIED 9 Jan 1858 in Gundary, NSW, to FRANCIS, Alfred John
Dawson, Born ??? 1820? in Liverpool, England, Died 5 Mar 1864
in Sydney, NSW at age 44; FATHER: FRANCIS, John; Witness: Dean
Francis. He was a widower, she a widow, both of Bodalla.;
Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley

MARRIED ??? 1851 in Cape Town, to WILSON, William, Born ???
1823? in Camberwell, London, Died 21 Apr 1856 in Tuross River,
NSW at age 33; According to W. Wilson's death certificate, he
married Margaret Agnes Glasgow at the Cape of Good Hope at the
age of 28.

CHILDREN:
1. F WILSON, Caroline Agnes, born 20 Apr 1854 in Sydney, NSW,
died 7 Dec 1946 in North Havelock, NZ; Married 21 Jul
1874 to BRATHWAITE, Robert Ashley Warre; 8 children
2. F WILSON, Emily Eleanora, born 23 Aug 1855 in New South
Wales, died 18 Jun 1859 in Yarragee, NSW, AUS
3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar 1859 in
Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, NSW, AUS;
Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William
4. M FRANCIS, Arthur Walpole, born 7 Jan 1861 in Moruya, NSW,
died 8 May 1921 in Mariental Dist. SWA; Married 2 Nov
1887 to DONOVAN, Ida Miranda Willoughby; 3 children
5. F FRANCIS, Edith Lilian, born 20 Aug 1862 in Yarragee, NSW,
died 13 Oct 1926 in Melbourne, Vic. Aust.; Married 10 Oct
1885 to BRIDGES, William Throsby; 7 children
6. F FRANCIS, Louisa, born 3 Nov 1864 in Queanbeyan, NSW, died
18 Mar 1943 in Tenterfield, NSW; Married 24 Dec 1883 to
COWLEY, Percy; 10 children
7. F THWAITES, Margaret Jane, born 20 Mar 1872 in Sydney, died
??? in Sydney
8. M THWAITES, Walter William Alfred, born 2 Jan 1874 in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, died ???; Married 25 Jul 1895 to
SAVAGE, Emily Victoria; 6 children
9. M THWAITES, Herbert Edward, born 28 Nov 1875 in Australia,
died 28 Jan 1937 in Boksburg; Married to BRITTAIN, Motty
Adeline; 2 children
10. F THWAITES, Elizabeth, born ??? 1876, died ???



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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