Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

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Gjest

Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Gjest » 1. februar 2008 kl. 15.08

To get your opinion how to handle this:

I am maintaining 2 family databases that my late mother started: her
family (Watteeuw) and my father's family (Viaene).

In previous versions of Gramps (1.X) it was possible to register (as
godfathers and godmothers f.e.) people that were not in the database
properly speaking. So when I upgraded, a lot of these records were lost
(really lost or replaced with references to empty records, both occurred).
Now I wanted to restore these infos, but then I hit the problem that the
"Watteeuw" uncles and aunts do not appear in the "Viaene" database. If I
import these people mutually then I could resolve this for myself and my
brothers and sisters, but if I want to do this for my father sister
(who married into another family) then .......
Beside that, godfathers and godmothers are even not always uncles and
aunts, but very close friends , so these do not really play an important
role in the whole family tree, just beside the one single person for
who this is important.

I logged a bug for this problem, but it was rejected.

How do other tools record this?

How do you (would you) handle this? Merging the two databases together
is something that I think not very handy and would only resolve half
the problem as I see it.

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

David Rowell

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av David Rowell » 1. februar 2008 kl. 15.27

herman.viaene@thuis.be wrote:
To get your opinion how to handle this:

In previous versions of Gramps (1.X) it was possible to register (as
godfathers and godmothers f.e.) people that were not in the database
properly speaking. So when I upgraded, a lot of these records were lost

When you upgraded Gramps? or switched to another program?

(really lost or replaced with references to empty records, both occurred).
Now I wanted to restore these infos, but then I hit the problem that the
....


How do you (would you) handle this?

Assuming you're still running Gramps the way I'd suggest is: Make the

person you want edit the primary person - click "add" select or add the
"father" and "mother" - edit the relationship between the two of them as
appropriate - edit the primary person's entry in the "new family" to
show the appropriate relationship to the "mother" and to the "father".
I'll grant you that "godfather" isn't one of the choices but "sponsor" is.

Does that do what you need?
Herman Viaene

Dave Rowell

Hugh Watkins

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 1. februar 2008 kl. 16.29

herman.viaene@thuis.be wrote:
To get your opinion how to handle this:

I am maintaining 2 family databases that my late mother started: her
family (Watteeuw) and my father's family (Viaene).

In previous versions of Gramps (1.X) it was possible to register (as
godfathers and godmothers f.e.) people that were not in the database
properly speaking. So when I upgraded, a lot of these records were lost
(really lost or replaced with references to empty records, both occurred).
Now I wanted to restore these infos, but then I hit the problem that the
"Watteeuw" uncles and aunts do not appear in the "Viaene" database. If I
import these people mutually then I could resolve this for myself and my
brothers and sisters, but if I want to do this for my father sister
(who married into another family) then .......
Beside that, godfathers and godmothers are even not always uncles and
aunts, but very close friends , so these do not really play an important
role in the whole family tree, just beside the one single person for
who this is important.

I logged a bug for this problem, but it was rejected.

How do other tools record this?

How do you (would you) handle this? Merging the two databases together
is something that I think not very handy and would only resolve half
the problem as I see it.


Have you kept a copy of the original data and program

so just export it all as a gedcom
and start over with TMG or FTM 16


FTM just allows as many stubs of tree fragments as you wish

Hugh W

Gjest

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Gjest » 1. februar 2008 kl. 16.41

David Rowell wrote:

herman.viaene@thuis.be wrote:
To get your opinion how to handle this:

In previous versions of Gramps (1.X) it was possible to register (as
godfathers and godmothers f.e.) people that were not in the database
properly speaking. So when I upgraded, a lot of these records were lost

When you upgraded Gramps? or switched to another program?

When I upgraded to Gramps 2.1

(really lost or replaced with references to empty records, both
occurred). Now I wanted to restore these infos, but then I hit the
problem that the ....


How do you (would you) handle this?

Assuming you're still running Gramps the way I'd suggest is: Make the
person you want edit the primary person - click "add" select or add the
"father" and "mother" - edit the relationship between the two of them as
appropriate - edit the primary person's entry in the "new family" to
show the appropriate relationship to the "mother" and to the "father".
I'll grant you that "godfather" isn't one of the choices but "sponsor" is.

Does that do what you need?

I see what you mean. I'd thought about adding Associations, but the problem
remains the same in both cases: you adding people to the database for whom
either data exist in another database, or none exist, and for the overall
contents of the database need not to exist (not part of the family
whatsoever).
Another remark to your proposal: the result seems (as I understood you) like
adding another set of "parents", but with relation "sponsored".
I wonder how other people not closely related to these particular persons
might interprete this? To me it could convey the idea of something like
a "long distance adaption" like Foster Parents Plan???

Tx anyway for your effort.

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Gjest

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Gjest » 1. februar 2008 kl. 16.47

Hugh Watkins wrote:

herman.viaene@thuis.be wrote:
To get your opinion how to handle this:

I am maintaining 2 family databases that my late mother started: her
family (Watteeuw) and my father's family (Viaene).

In previous versions of Gramps (1.X) it was possible to register (as
godfathers and godmothers f.e.) people that were not in the database
properly speaking. So when I upgraded, a lot of these records were lost
(really lost or replaced with references to empty records, both
occurred). Now I wanted to restore these infos, but then I hit the
problem that the "Watteeuw" uncles and aunts do not appear in the
"Viaene" database. If I import these people mutually then I could resolve
this for myself and my brothers and sisters, but if I want to do this for
my father sister (who married into another family) then .......
Beside that, godfathers and godmothers are even not always uncles and
aunts, but very close friends , so these do not really play an important
role in the whole family tree, just beside the one single person for
who this is important.

I logged a bug for this problem, but it was rejected.

How do other tools record this?

How do you (would you) handle this? Merging the two databases together
is something that I think not very handy and would only resolve half
the problem as I see it.


Have you kept a copy of the original data and program

so just export it all as a gedcom
and start over with TMG or FTM 16


FTM just allows as many stubs of tree fragments as you wish

Meaning ???? I'm Dutch speaking, so some English idiom ???

Hugh W

I should have mentioned it: running Mandrake, not Windows, so I think not
many options there. Beside that, I quite like the way Gramps works .....
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

David Rowell

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av David Rowell » 1. februar 2008 kl. 22.36

Assuming you're still running Gramps the way I'd suggest is: Make the
person you want edit the primary person - click "add" select or add the
"father" and "mother" - edit the relationship between the two of them as
appropriate - edit the primary person's entry in the "new family" to
show the appropriate relationship to the "mother" and to the "father".
I'll grant you that "godfather" isn't one of the choices but "sponsor" is.

Does that do what you need?

I see what you mean. I'd thought about adding Associations, but the problem
remains the same in both cases: you adding people to the database for whom
either data exist in another database, or none exist, and for the overall
contents of the database need not to exist (not part of the family
whatsoever).

No it is not necessary to add people to the database who are already
there - simply select these people from the lists on the initial screen.

Another remark to your proposal: the result seems (as I understood you) like
adding another set of "parents", but with relation "sponsored".
I wonder how other people not closely related to these particular persons
might interprete this? To me it could convey the idea of something like
a "long distance adaption" like Foster Parents Plan???

But isn't a sponsor exactly what a Godparent is?

Oh Well!

Tx anyway for your effort.

Herman Viaene

clifto

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av clifto » 1. februar 2008 kl. 23.39

David Rowell wrote:
But isn't a sponsor exactly what a Godparent is?

I can't think of any other use for "sponsor" myself. ??

--
God help us all,
The next President of the United States will be a liberal.

Gjest

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Gjest » 2. februar 2008 kl. 9.37

David Rowell wrote:

snip...


Another remark to your proposal: the result seems (as I understood you)
like adding another set of "parents", but with relation "sponsored".
I wonder how other people not closely related to these particular persons
might interprete this? To me it could convey the idea of something like
a "long distance adaption" like Foster Parents Plan???

But isn't a sponsor exactly what a Godparent is?

Maybe my understanding of English terms is a bit off??? and further confused
by local habits???

Sponsor has to me a strong flavor od "supporting financially".

Godfather(mother) are two people (close to the parents - relatives or
friends) who play a role in the baptization ceremony (originally). The bond
between Godfather(mother) and child is of a more sentimental kind and
manifests often by thinks like the child being invited for holidays,
getting presents at birthdays and New Year. Parents invite
Godfather(mother) at occasions that are important for the child etc...

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Brad Rogers

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Brad Rogers » 2. februar 2008 kl. 10.24

On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:37:59 +0100, herman.viaene wrote:

Maybe my understanding of English terms is a bit off??? and further confused
by local habits???
Sponsor has to me a strong flavor od "supporting financially".

Nowadays, yes. But it can also mean (from the Free Dictionary at
http://www.thefreedictionary.com);

1. One who assumes responsibility for another person or a group during a
period of instruction, apprenticeship, or probation.
2. One who vouches for the suitability of a candidate for admission.
3. A legislator who proposes and urges adoption of a bill.
4. One who presents a candidate for baptism or confirmation; a godparent.
5. One that finances a project or an event carried out by another person
or group, especially a business enterprise that pays for radio or
television programming in return for advertising time.

--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"

I don't believe you have to be an idiot to get somewhere these days
Bombsite Boy - The Adverts

Henry Brownlee

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Henry Brownlee » 2. februar 2008 kl. 16.29

<herman.viaene@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:47a43b94$0$32002$fa620c48@newsreader-1.edpnet.be...
| Maybe my understanding of English terms is a bit off??? and further
confused
| by local habits???
|
| Sponsor has to me a strong flavor od "supporting financially".
|
| Godfather(mother) are two people (close to the parents - relatives or
| friends) who play a role in the baptization ceremony (originally). The
bond
| between Godfather(mother) and child is of a more sentimental kind and
| manifests often by thinks like the child being invited for holidays,
| getting presents at birthdays and New Year. Parents invite
| Godfather(mother) at occasions that are important for the child etc...
|
| Herman Viaene

Herman,

Your description of Godparents is absolutely correct. Godparents are
especially obligated to help raise the child in the Faith and in life in the
event of the death of one or both of the parents.

However, throughout the Catholic birth records of South Louisiana the term
"Sponsors" is used. It is not unusual to find two male sponsors for a boy or
two female sponsors for a girl. In the old French-based churches, the terms
Parrain and Marraine were also sometimes used.

English is a very flexible language which can have several meanings for the
same word, depending upon how it is used.

Goed geluk on your success in getting the databases straightened out!
--
Henry Brownlee
Houma, Louisiana

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Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av dn21521 » 18. februar 2008 kl. 12.00

Just another, related question: In Norway, there are often more than 2 sponsors (Faddere), and the particular role of godmother/Father may not even be defined in the church records. Will the approach of adding them as "parents" still work? Will you then make several sets of "sponsor parents"? I have added the sponsors to the baptism event with role "Witness", is that an incorrect use of the English term "Withness" that other people may misunderstand?

Best regards,
Ellen Nordgård-Hansen

Hugh Watkins

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 18. februar 2008 kl. 15.29

Ellen Marie Nordgård-Hansen wrote:
Just another, related question: In Norway, there are often more than 2
sponsors (Faddere), and the particular role of godmother/Father may
not even be defined in the church records. Will the approach of
adding them as "parents" still work? Will you then make several sets
of "sponsor parents"? I have added the sponsors to the baptism event
with role "Witness", is that an incorrect use of the English term
"Withness" that other people may misunderstand?

the one holding the baby is the godmother
(in Danish Records)

I handle it in FTM 16 by putting a list in the notes

then any individual of interest is researched and entered in the usual way
for example a foster parent is seen at many baptisms of his foster son's
children and was identified from a census


Hugh W

--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Gjest

Re: Godfathers/mothers in Gramps

Legg inn av Gjest » 18. februar 2008 kl. 17.33

Ellen Marie Nordgård-Hansen wrote:

Just another, related question: In Norway, there are often more than 2
sponsors (Faddere), and the particular role of godmother/Father may
not even be defined in the church records. Will the approach of
adding them as "parents" still work? Will you then make several sets
of "sponsor parents"? I have added the sponsors to the baptism event
with role "Witness", is that an incorrect use of the English term
"Withness" that other people may misunderstand?


As the originator of the question some time ago:
I don't like the idea of godfathers/mothers as parents, I'd rather reserve
that for the cases where biological and adoptive parents are involved.

On occassions, I have made imports from 1.X gramps data files into 2.X
versions, and in one case (but I cann't remember which one exactly) these
records were translated into "Associations", and I think I'll stick to that
way of recording. But I agree this is more a question of "feeling"
or "taste" than exact reasoning.

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

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