State vital records ??

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singhals

State vital records ??

Legg inn av singhals » 28 des 2007 03:05:42

Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
death would not be recorded where it occurred?

A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death
records turned up absolutely no entry for the surname, let
alone the exact name, plus or minus a month of the known date.

Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's
grandson was born back in 1985. The family threw in other
details, such as where he lived, and how-come he died in the
same hospital where the baby had been born. Various
official records support this verbal information, including
an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right
place, and the SSN issued in the right place. The state has
no record of such a death.

I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out
the paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one
state would permit a body to moved into another state for
burial without appropriate wads of paper.

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
death notices for the right week?

Cheryl

Robert Melson

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Robert Melson » 28 des 2007 03:20:10

In article <NZmdnQA776FlxOnanZ2dnUVZ_qCunZ2d@rcn.net>,
singhals <singhals@erols.com> writes:
Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
death would not be recorded where it occurred?

A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death
records turned up absolutely no entry for the surname, let
alone the exact name, plus or minus a month of the known date.

Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's
grandson was born back in 1985. The family threw in other
details, such as where he lived, and how-come he died in the
same hospital where the baby had been born. Various
official records support this verbal information, including
an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right
place, and the SSN issued in the right place. The state has
no record of such a death.

I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out
the paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one
state would permit a body to moved into another state for
burial without appropriate wads of paper.

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
death notices for the right week?

Cheryl

Only thing I can think of is that somebody misspelled X, or
that there's a more common variant of X, say X', and somebody
insisted that X was X' (kinda like with my surname - most folks
insist that it's _N_elson, not _M_elson). Apart from that, have
you checked with the County Clerk's office in that jurisdiction?
They frequently maintain their own set of records for events
occurring in their locality.

Do you know the funeral home(s) involved? What do their records
say, if anything?

Bob

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford

Henry Brownlee

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Henry Brownlee » 28 des 2007 07:00:43

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:NZmdnQA776FlxOnanZ2dnUVZ_qCunZ2d@rcn.net...
| Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
| death would not be recorded where it occurred?
|
| A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death
| records turned up absolutely no entry for the surname, let
| alone the exact name, plus or minus a month of the known date.
|
| Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's
| grandson was born back in 1985. The family threw in other
| details, such as where he lived, and how-come he died in the
| same hospital where the baby had been born. Various
| official records support this verbal information, including
| an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
| residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right
| place, and the SSN issued in the right place. The state has
| no record of such a death.
|
| I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out
| the paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one
| state would permit a body to moved into another state for
| burial without appropriate wads of paper.
|
| Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
| death notices for the right week?
|
| Cheryl

Cher, I know this isn't going to be any help, but maybe it's a case like my
Grandma once told me. An old mule dropped dead while pulling a load on
Tchoupitoulas Street. The policeman assigned to the incident wasn't too
keen with his spelling skills, so he dragged it over to Camp Street to make
out his report.

Henry

Tony H.

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Tony H. » 28 des 2007 12:52:52

Wish I had an answer for you. I have the same frustrating dilemma. My
cousin died in 1922 at age 11. Cemetery records show the date he died
and was buried, specific hospital he died in, cause of death, funeral
home, last doctor, casket/vault type. Just about everything except what
I want to know (his mother's married name at the time).

However, the county where all of this existed insists that they have no
death record for him...any spelling variation of first and/or last name
on or around his date of death. This county does not permit personal
search of their death records. If there's no county record, there's no
state record.

Like you, I'd have thought a hospital would have filled out paperwork
even back in 1922!

Good luck,
Tony

singhals wrote:
Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977 death would not
be recorded where it occurred?

A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death records turned
up absolutely no entry for the surname, let alone the exact name, plus
or minus a month of the known date.

Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's grandson was
born back in 1985. The family threw in other details, such as where he
lived, and how-come he died in the same hospital where the baby had been
born. Various official records support this verbal information,
including an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right place, and
the SSN issued in the right place. The state has no record of such a
death.

I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out the
paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one state would
permit a body to moved into another state for burial without appropriate
wads of paper.

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and death notices
for the right week?

Cheryl

Jim Elbrecht

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Jim Elbrecht » 28 des 2007 13:57:30

singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:

Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
death would not be recorded where it occurred?
-snip-

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
death notices for the right week?

I'm with Bob- check the county records. They might provide a clue
as to why it didn't make it to the state in a timely manner. [or
not-- but at least you'd have an official report]

In my experience county clerks have been helpful on the phone. I've
called several in NY and VT. None in large cities, but a few in
small cities. I call - on Tue, Wed, or Thu, never near quitting time
or lunch- and always ask if 'this is a good time'.

Once we're talking I introduce myself as 'one of those crazy
genealogists' - and ask if the clerk would do me a big favor.

I've always gotten a lookup while I waited- and have gotten free
copies sometimes, and other time explicit directions on how to request
copies- never for very much money.

The clerk would also be your best bet on speculating why it never got
registered at the state.

Jim

singhals

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av singhals » 28 des 2007 15:08:00

Robert Melson wrote:

In article <NZmdnQA776FlxOnanZ2dnUVZ_qCunZ2d@rcn.net>,
singhals <singhals@erols.com> writes:

Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
death would not be recorded where it occurred?

A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death
records turned up absolutely no entry for the surname, let
alone the exact name, plus or minus a month of the known date.

Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's
grandson was born back in 1985. The family threw in other
details, such as where he lived, and how-come he died in the
same hospital where the baby had been born. Various
official records support this verbal information, including
an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right
place, and the SSN issued in the right place. The state has
no record of such a death.

I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out
the paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one
state would permit a body to moved into another state for
burial without appropriate wads of paper.

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
death notices for the right week?

Cheryl


Only thing I can think of is that somebody misspelled X, or
that there's a more common variant of X, say X', and somebody
insisted that X was X' (kinda like with my surname - most folks
insist that it's _N_elson, not _M_elson). Apart from that, have
you checked with the County Clerk's office in that jurisdiction?
They frequently maintain their own set of records for events
occurring in their locality.

Do you know the funeral home(s) involved? What do their records
say, if anything?

Bob


Four County Clerks in the state insist they do not keep
copies of the deaths, they only collect the reports and pass
them on to the state. In 30 years, I've never had a clerk
admit differently. (g) Now, whether they actually DO have
them and just don't (a) know it or (b) wish to admit it is
an unknowable until/unless I can make friends with an
employee, but seems to me the odds favor their not having them?

I know which funeral homes were here, but the burial
occurred out of state, and I don't know whether the
interment funeral home picked him up at the hospital or
another funeral home ...

I haven't had time to do much, since I just found out there
was no state record on Friday before Christmas. (g)

Cheryl

singhals

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av singhals » 28 des 2007 15:10:00

Henry Brownlee wrote:

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:NZmdnQA776FlxOnanZ2dnUVZ_qCunZ2d@rcn.net...
| Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
| death would not be recorded where it occurred?
|
| A personal, on-site, search of the relevant state's death
| records turned up absolutely no entry for the surname, let
| alone the exact name, plus or minus a month of the known date.
|
| Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's
| grandson was born back in 1985. The family threw in other
| details, such as where he lived, and how-come he died in the
| same hospital where the baby had been born. Various
| official records support this verbal information, including
| an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
| residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right
| place, and the SSN issued in the right place. The state has
| no record of such a death.
|
| I wouldn't have thought a hospital wouldn't have filled out
| the paperwork back in 1977, and I wouldn't have thought one
| state would permit a body to moved into another state for
| burial without appropriate wads of paper.
|
| Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
| death notices for the right week?
|
| Cheryl

Cher, I know this isn't going to be any help, but maybe it's a case like my
Grandma once told me. An old mule dropped dead while pulling a load on
Tchoupitoulas Street. The policeman assigned to the incident wasn't too
keen with his spelling skills, so he dragged it over to Camp Street to make
out his report.


Oui, but hauling a dead mule 'round nawlins is a lot easier
than schlepping a dead body around, even in nawlins. ;)

Cheryl

singhals

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av singhals » 28 des 2007 15:11:11

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:


Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977
death would not be recorded where it occurred?

-snip-

Any ideas? Other than to dig deeper into the obits and
death notices for the right week?


I'm with Bob- check the county records. They might provide a clue
as to why it didn't make it to the state in a timely manner. [or
not-- but at least you'd have an official report]

In my experience county clerks have been helpful on the phone. I've
called several in NY and VT. None in large cities, but a few in
small cities. I call - on Tue, Wed, or Thu, never near quitting time
or lunch- and always ask if 'this is a good time'.

Once we're talking I introduce myself as 'one of those crazy
genealogists' - and ask if the clerk would do me a big favor.

I've always gotten a lookup while I waited- and have gotten free
copies sometimes, and other time explicit directions on how to request
copies- never for very much money.

The clerk would also be your best bet on speculating why it never got
registered at the state.

Jim
..


Far's I know the county doesn't keep a copy of those
records; they count 'em, alphabetize 'em, and shuffle 'em
off to the State. At least, that's what 30 years worth of
county clerks have all told me.

Cheryl

ecunningham

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av ecunningham » 28 des 2007 17:16:11

singhals wrote:
Can any of you Americans think of any reason why a 1977 death would not
be recorded where it occurred?

Mr X gave me his father's birth and death info when Mr. X's grandson was
born back in 1985. The family threw in other details, such as where he
lived, and how-come he died in the same hospital where the baby had been
born. Various official records support this verbal information,
including an SSDI entry for the right name, born the right date,
residing in the right place, last benefit going to the right place, and
the SSN issued in the right place. The state has no record of such a
death.

Cheryl: Because it didn't occur where you think/told it occurred!

SSDI is no help--that is only the money trail. Money goes to one place
and grandma/dad lives and dies across country. Hundreds of thousands
of those listed in SSDI fall in that category.

Had a case where the obit listed a death at home and I spent days
searching state records for that year and alternate spellings and
couldn't find it. Months later someone gave me a copy of the death
cert--another state! She had TB and died in a sanatorium. Here I was
telling state employees they couldn't spell or file! <VBG>

I would track the obit, or better yet, call the cemetery and ask them
which funeral parlor handled the arrangements. Funeral parlor would
have copy of death certificate. Obit should be in online papers or
reference section of local library. Amazing how many local libraries
have put their obit indexes online--tucked away on their websites.

Good hunting--snag me offline if you want help.
ecunningham@att.net

clifto

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av clifto » 29 des 2007 00:43:30

singhals wrote:
Henry Brownlee wrote:
Cher, I know this isn't going to be any help, but maybe it's a case like my
Grandma once told me. An old mule dropped dead while pulling a load on
Tchoupitoulas Street. The policeman assigned to the incident wasn't too
keen with his spelling skills, so he dragged it over to Camp Street to make
out his report.


Oui, but hauling a dead mule 'round nawlins is a lot easier
than schlepping a dead body around, even in nawlins. ;)

You jus' ain' usin' the right lagniappe.

--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.

Gjest

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 jan 2008 01:35:16

On Dec 28 2007, 5:43 pm, clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:
singhals wrote:
Henry Brownlee wrote:
Cher, I know this isn't going to be any help, but maybe it's a case like my
Grandma once told me. An old mule dropped dead while pulling a load on
1-3-2008


There are many reasons to speculate why it doesn't appear: death may
have been particularly gruesome and the family and/or the law
enforcement authorities may want to keep it private/hush-hush as
possible, SSDI workers inputting the data make mistakes, death could
have occurred in a different state, death information may have been
omitted or reported incorrectly, etc.

If you don't have any luck with the other suggestions offered, post
the names and date information you were given here, along with exactly
what you are trying to find out (do you want a death certificate?
names of children and or siblings?, etc.) so that I can check some
alternate sources to get the information you want, or so that some
other alternative ideas may be suggested.

keith345@hotmail.com
GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
(Tulsa, Oklahoma)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tchoupitoulas Street. The policeman assigned  to the incident
wasn't too
keen with his spelling skills, so he dragged it over to Camp Street to make
out his report.

Oui, but hauling a dead mule 'round nawlins is a lot easier
than schlepping a dead body around, even in nawlins. ;)

You jus' ain' usin' the right lagniappe.

--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.

Gjest

Re: State vital records ??

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 jan 2008 17:55:04

On Jan 3, 5:50 pm, keith...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Dec 28 2007, 5:43 pm, clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:> singhals wrote:
Henry Brownlee wrote:
Cher, I know this isn't going to be any help, but maybe it's a case like my
Grandma once told me. An old mule dropped dead while pulling a load on

1-3-2008

There are many reasons to speculate why it doesn't appear:  death may
have been particularly gruesome and the family and/or the law
enforcement authorities may want to keep it private/hush-hush as
possible, SSDI workers inputting the data make mistakes, death could
have occurred in a different state, death information may have been
omitted or reported incorrectly, etc.

If you don't have any luck with the other suggestions offered, post
the names and date information you were given here, along with exactly
what you are trying to find out (do you want a death certificate?
names of children and or siblings?, etc.) so that I can check some
alternate sources to get the information you want, or so that some
other alternative ideas may be suggested.

keith...@hotmail.com
GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
(Tulsa, Oklahoma)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------------



Tchoupitoulas Street. The policeman assigned  to the incident
wasn't too
keen with his spelling skills, so he dragged it over to Camp Street to make
out his report.

Oui, but hauling a dead mule 'round nawlins is a lot easier
than schlepping a dead body around, even in nawlins. ;)

You jus' ain' usin' the right lagniappe.

--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

1-20-2008

Something else you can do is to contact the county courthouse probate
court for whatever city he died in, to check and see if there is a
probate file containing his last will and testament. If there is a
file, there is a page in it showing names and addresses of surviving
family and other information that you may be interested in ordering a
copy of by mail. Perhaps there is a relative's name or friend's name
listed there who has information about the family that you are looking
for.

GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
keith345@hotmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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