Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
matthew
Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
-
Charani
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:49:03 -0800 (PST), matthew wrote:
Albanian.
--
http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
Albanian.
--
http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/
-
matthew
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Dec 20, 9:59 pm, Charani <SGBNOSPAM@ mail2genes.invalid> wrote:
Ok 1 vote for Albanian. Thanks.
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:49:03 -0800 (PST), matthew wrote:
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
Albanian.
--http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/
Ok 1 vote for Albanian. Thanks.
-
Anne Chambers
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
matthew wrote:
Where was he born ? If he was born in Italy, that makes him Italian.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Where was he born ? If he was born in Italy, that makes him Italian.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
-
matthew
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Dec 20, 10:54 pm, Anne Chambers <a...@privacy.net> wrote:
1 Vote Italian! Cool.
I do not have the specific area, but it was in Bari, Italy. So, I am
with you in the thinking that he is Italian. Maybe he would be called,
an Italian-born, Albanian? Maybe... I just do not know if there is a
standard convention for this.
Thanks so far for all of your Answers!
matthew wrote:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Where was he born ? If he was born in Italy, that makes him Italian.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
1 Vote Italian! Cool.
I do not have the specific area, but it was in Bari, Italy. So, I am
with you in the thinking that he is Italian. Maybe he would be called,
an Italian-born, Albanian? Maybe... I just do not know if there is a
standard convention for this.
Thanks so far for all of your Answers!
-
Anne Chambers
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
matthew wrote:
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different matter.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
On Dec 20, 10:54 pm, Anne Chambers <a...@privacy.net> wrote:
Where was he born ? If he was born in Italy, that makes him Italian.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
1 Vote Italian! Cool.
I do not have the specific area, but it was in Bari, Italy. So, I am
with you in the thinking that he is Italian. Maybe he would be called,
an Italian-born, Albanian? Maybe... I just do not know if there is a
standard convention for this.
Thanks so far for all of your Answers!
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different matter.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
-
matthew
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Dec 20, 11:17 pm, Anne Chambers <a...@privacy.net> wrote:
Thanks Anne, yes, Culturally is another thing all together. I like
your examples, I am pretty sure, he did not have dual citizenship.
Thanks for your input!
Matthew
matthew wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:54 pm, Anne Chambers <a...@privacy.net> wrote:
Where was he born ? If he was born in Italy, that makes him Italian.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
1 Vote Italian! Cool.
I do not have the specific area, but it was in Bari, Italy. So, I am
with you in the thinking that he is Italian. Maybe he would be called,
an Italian-born, Albanian? Maybe... I just do not know if there is a
standard convention for this.
Thanks so far for all of your Answers!
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different matter.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
Thanks Anne, yes, Culturally is another thing all together. I like
your examples, I am pretty sure, he did not have dual citizenship.
Thanks for your input!
Matthew
-
Anne Chambers
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Anne Chambers wrote:
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different matter.
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
-
Steve Hayes
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:01:42 +1030, Anne Chambers <anne@privacy.net> wrote:
Or Albanian-Italian, like Albanian-American or African-American.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
Or Albanian-Italian, like Albanian-American or African-American.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Steve Hayes
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:49:03 -0800 (PST), matthew <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com>
wrote:
He's Italian.
If he's Albanian, I'm British, because my ancestors came from Britain a few
years ago, but I don't think a Brit immigration officer would take kindly to
that argument.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
wrote:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
He's Italian.
If he's Albanian, I'm British, because my ancestors came from Britain a few
years ago, but I don't think a Brit immigration officer would take kindly to
that argument.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Peter
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
He is, without a doubt Italian, with Albanian roots.
Peter. G
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hr5nm3h76gomdq6h8j538a8vcigmb7fuup@4ax.com...
Peter. G
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hr5nm3h76gomdq6h8j538a8vcigmb7fuup@4ax.com...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:49:03 -0800 (PST), matthew
matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
He's Italian.
If he's Albanian, I'm British, because my ancestors came from Britain a
few
years ago, but I don't think a Brit immigration officer would take kindly
to
that argument.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Robert Melson
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
In article <8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886eaa4a@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com> writes:
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
matthew <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
-
matthew
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
Thank you all so much for your reply gives me a lot of food for
thought. One of the reasons I ask this is because I am getting married
this Sunday, and well, my family tree will be merging with my
finances. On this I like is to say I am 75% Italian (My dad's mom and
dad's dad are both from Italy and my mom's dad, the Albanio-Italian in
question is from Italy) and well grandma Murphy gives me 25% Irish. SO
I like saying I am 75%/25% Irish and Italian. My finance get 100%
Italian from her mom and dad's family. Therefore, in short, it seems
out children would be 50% Italian from her side my side they get
37.5% Italian and 12.5% Irish giving them a grand total of 87.5%
Italian and 12.5% Irish.
I know this is highly simplistic, and doesn't go too many generations
back, but I suppose it works for now. I just really wanted to see if I
needed to be in the Albanian percentage. So I suppose when I say I am
75%Italian and 25% Irish that is nationally for sure, culturally, I
get a dash of Albania.
Ok thank you everyone!
-Matthew
In article <8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
Thank you all so much for your reply gives me a lot of food for
thought. One of the reasons I ask this is because I am getting married
this Sunday, and well, my family tree will be merging with my
finances. On this I like is to say I am 75% Italian (My dad's mom and
dad's dad are both from Italy and my mom's dad, the Albanio-Italian in
question is from Italy) and well grandma Murphy gives me 25% Irish. SO
I like saying I am 75%/25% Irish and Italian. My finance get 100%
Italian from her mom and dad's family. Therefore, in short, it seems
out children would be 50% Italian from her side my side they get
37.5% Italian and 12.5% Irish giving them a grand total of 87.5%
Italian and 12.5% Irish.
I know this is highly simplistic, and doesn't go too many generations
back, but I suppose it works for now. I just really wanted to see if I
needed to be in the Albanian percentage. So I suppose when I say I am
75%Italian and 25% Irish that is nationally for sure, culturally, I
get a dash of Albania.
Ok thank you everyone!
-Matthew
-
Allen
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
matthew wrote:
Sorry to throw this in, but whenever Albania is mentioned one of my
favorite episodes of "Cheers" pops into my mind and won't go away,
thanks to Coach's song. Even if I hadn't known it before I don't think I
could ever forget that Albania borders on the Adriatic and its chief
export is tin.
Allen
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
In article <8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
snip
Sorry to throw this in, but whenever Albania is mentioned one of my
favorite episodes of "Cheers" pops into my mind and won't go away,
thanks to Coach's song. Even if I hadn't known it before I don't think I
could ever forget that Albania borders on the Adriatic and its chief
export is tin.
Allen
-
Rip
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5t1ffvF1bqhcjU1@mid.individual.net...
But he already said that he was born in Italy and many of his past
generations were born in Italy.
Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
all his decedents were born in the US?
news:5t1ffvF1bqhcjU1@mid.individual.net...
Anne Chambers wrote:
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if
the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an
Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different
matter.
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
But he already said that he was born in Italy and many of his past
generations were born in Italy.
Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
all his decedents were born in the US?
-
Rip
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p06nm3li7biip2r313b1ogtt0ldt6p6k3q@4ax.com...
That means a person is of every nation one of his ancestors was born
in. Present day people would have hundreds of names. Joe - he's a
American-Irish-German-Spanish-Portuguese, etc. for a hundred or so
nations.
news:p06nm3li7biip2r313b1ogtt0ldt6p6k3q@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:01:42 +1030, Anne Chambers <anne@privacy.net
wrote:
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
Or Albanian-Italian, like Albanian-American or African-American.
That means a person is of every nation one of his ancestors was born
in. Present day people would have hundreds of names. Joe - he's a
American-Irish-German-Spanish-Portuguese, etc. for a hundred or so
nations.
-
matthew
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
That is true. I also have no knowledge of Albania. Since my
grandfather died long sgo/ Cheers is also my main source of info on
that country.
Thanks.
Matthew
Allen wrote:
grandfather died long sgo/ Cheers is also my main source of info on
that country.
Thanks.
Matthew
Allen wrote:
matthew wrote:
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
In article <8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
snip
Sorry to throw this in, but whenever Albania is mentioned one of my
favorite episodes of "Cheers" pops into my mind and won't go away,
thanks to Coach's song. Even if I hadn't known it before I don't think I
could ever forget that Albania borders on the Adriatic and its chief
export is tin.
Allen
-
Anne Chambers
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Rip wrote:
ancestry...which is obviously important to him.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5t1ffvF1bqhcjU1@mid.individual.net...
Anne Chambers wrote:
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if
the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an
Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different
matter.
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
But he already said that he was born in Italy and many of his past
generations were born in Italy.
Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
all his decedents were born in the US?
No - that's what I am saying. He is Italian. With Albanian
ancestry...which is obviously important to him.
--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com
-
clifto
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Rip wrote:
And there's another unfortunate misspelling that could start another
subthread. Where were the decedents interned?
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
all his decedents were born in the US?
And there's another unfortunate misspelling that could start another
subthread. Where were the decedents interned?
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
-
Bruce Remick
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
"matthew" <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d1fc9c9-6a52-482e-98a6-f47c9ee41492@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
When you start recording decimal places, you've gone way too far with all
this.
Bruce
news:5d1fc9c9-6a52-482e-98a6-f47c9ee41492@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
In article
8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d2 ... groups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
Thank you all so much for your reply gives me a lot of food for
thought. One of the reasons I ask this is because I am getting married
this Sunday, and well, my family tree will be merging with my
finances. On this I like is to say I am 75% Italian (My dad's mom and
dad's dad are both from Italy and my mom's dad, the Albanio-Italian in
question is from Italy) and well grandma Murphy gives me 25% Irish. SO
I like saying I am 75%/25% Irish and Italian. My finance get 100%
Italian from her mom and dad's family. Therefore, in short, it seems
out children would be 50% Italian from her side my side they get
37.5% Italian and 12.5% Irish giving them a grand total of 87.5%
Italian and 12.5% Irish.
When you start recording decimal places, you've gone way too far with all
this.
Bruce
-
Henry Brownlee
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:22ut35-nfq.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
| Rip wrote:
| > Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
| > all his decedents were born in the US?
|
| And there's another unfortunate misspelling that could start another
| subthread. Where were the decedents interned?
Here we go again! But we should all be inured to Clifto's comments by now!
Henry
Scots-Irish-German-Dutch American Mutt
news:22ut35-nfq.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
| Rip wrote:
| > Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
| > all his decedents were born in the US?
|
| And there's another unfortunate misspelling that could start another
| subthread. Where were the decedents interned?
Here we go again! But we should all be inured to Clifto's comments by now!
Henry
Scots-Irish-German-Dutch American Mutt
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Anne Chambers wrote:
It is a personal choice
I was born in England but I am 11/16 welsh and 5/16 english so far
after 25 years there I am very much a Copenhagener but never will be a
dane evenn though I am bilingual in Danish
I regard myself as a European with a welsh background
I have worked as a professional musician in England Wales Scotland,
Northrtn Ireland, Éire, Faeroe Islands, Norway Sweden Denmark Germany
Netherlands Switzerland, Prague when it was Czechoslovakia, and Austria
being paid travel cost, hotel and a fee is the best way to go:-)
I paid to visit Iceland, France and Spain so they don't count
I get half an old age pension from UK and half from DK
I only wish they both used the Euro
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
Rip wrote:
"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5t1ffvF1bqhcjU1@mid.individual.net...
Anne Chambers wrote:
Possibly he might have dual citizenship, but this is unlikely if the
family haven't lived in Albania for generations. He would be an
Italian
of Albanian extraction or an Italian of Albanian ancestry. What he
considers himself to be, culturally, is a completely different matter.
To be pedantic...that should probably be 'an Italian *with* Albanian
ancestry' or 'an Italian *of* Albanian descent'
But he already said that he was born in Italy and many of his past
generations were born in Italy.
Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
all his decedents were born in the US?
No - that's what I am saying. He is Italian. With Albanian
ancestry...which is obviously important to him.
It is a personal choice
I was born in England but I am 11/16 welsh and 5/16 english so far
after 25 years there I am very much a Copenhagener but never will be a
dane evenn though I am bilingual in Danish
I regard myself as a European with a welsh background
I have worked as a professional musician in England Wales Scotland,
Northrtn Ireland, Éire, Faeroe Islands, Norway Sweden Denmark Germany
Netherlands Switzerland, Prague when it was Czechoslovakia, and Austria
being paid travel cost, hotel and a fee is the best way to go:-)
I paid to visit Iceland, France and Spain so they don't count
I get half an old age pension from UK and half from DK
I only wish they both used the Euro
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Bruce Remick wrote:
fractions like sixteenths and thirtyseconds make more sense
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
"matthew" <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d1fc9c9-6a52-482e-98a6-f47c9ee41492@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
In article
8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d2 ... groups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
Thank you all so much for your reply gives me a lot of food for
thought. One of the reasons I ask this is because I am getting married
this Sunday, and well, my family tree will be merging with my
finances. On this I like is to say I am 75% Italian (My dad's mom and
dad's dad are both from Italy and my mom's dad, the Albanio-Italian in
question is from Italy) and well grandma Murphy gives me 25% Irish. SO
I like saying I am 75%/25% Irish and Italian. My finance get 100%
Italian from her mom and dad's family. Therefore, in short, it seems
out children would be 50% Italian from her side my side they get
37.5% Italian and 12.5% Irish giving them a grand total of 87.5%
Italian and 12.5% Irish.
When you start recording decimal places, you've gone way too far with all
this.
fractions like sixteenths and thirtyseconds make more sense
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
singhals
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Henry Brownlee wrote:
Ah-ha! No fun if you type it right, Henry!
Cheryl
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:22ut35-nfq.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
| Rip wrote:
| > Am I German because someone moved here from Germany in the 1880's? And
| > all his decedents were born in the US?
|
| And there's another unfortunate misspelling that could start another
| subthread. Where were the decedents interned?
Here we go again! But we should all be inured to Clifto's comments by now!
Ah-ha! No fun if you type it right, Henry!
Cheryl
-
singhals
Re: Albanian or Italian that is the question.
Bruce Remick wrote:
Mebbe he should add another fifth of Irish? Oh, wait, no,
another half-?
Cheryl
"matthew" <matthew.ciuccio@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d1fc9c9-6a52-482e-98a6-f47c9ee41492@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 6:39 am, mels...@aragorn.rgmhome.net (Robert Melson) wrote:
In article
8bfcefe2-7d0b-4867-8b5a-6e0b886ea...@d2 ... groups.com>,
matthew <matthew.ciuc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello Everyone fast easy question, I bet, for you folks in the know
about these things.
My Mother's Father is from an Albanian community in Bari, Italy.
He has told me this community has been there for hundreds of years,
and he says he is Albanian. Although he has never been to Albania in
his life (nor had any of his family for many generations).
So does this make him Italian, since the community is in Italy, that
is what I think, or Albanian as he claims?
I kind of think of the question as if a Chinese person is born in
Chinatown in New York City, they are, American, although culturally
Chinese.
Any insights into this is would be great, I wonder what the "official"
ruling is on this question.
Thanks in advanced for anyone who could help.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Don't confuse where he was born (Italy) with whom he was
born to. Unless the Italians deny Italian citizenship to
the Italian-born children of foreigners living in the country,
then he's Italian by birth. That's nationality and a matter
of law. On the other hand, if his progenitors, back to when-
ever the family came to Italy, consider themselves Albanian and
he has been brought up steeped in the culture, traditions and
language of Albania, if he believes himself to BE Albanian, then
he's Albanian. This has nothing to do with nationality, but with
culture/ethnicity.
What do you call him? I'd say Albanio-Italian or some such other
hyphenated description combining the ethnic with the nationality.
Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable
reason so few engage in it. -- Henry Ford
Thank you all so much for your reply gives me a lot of food for
thought. One of the reasons I ask this is because I am getting married
this Sunday, and well, my family tree will be merging with my
finances. On this I like is to say I am 75% Italian (My dad's mom and
dad's dad are both from Italy and my mom's dad, the Albanio-Italian in
question is from Italy) and well grandma Murphy gives me 25% Irish. SO
I like saying I am 75%/25% Irish and Italian. My finance get 100%
Italian from her mom and dad's family. Therefore, in short, it seems
out children would be 50% Italian from her side my side they get
37.5% Italian and 12.5% Irish giving them a grand total of 87.5%
Italian and 12.5% Irish.
When you start recording decimal places, you've gone way too far with all
this.
Bruce
Mebbe he should add another fifth of Irish? Oh, wait, no,
another half-?
Cheryl