Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Thumper
Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
This may be a dumb question, but which genealogy DNA testing service
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
I use FamilyTreeDNA (http://www.FamilyTreeDNA.com). My family is participating
in two surname studies there, and we've also done the mitochondrial DNA
for the females. I've been very satisfied with their service and
explanations. Your results are shown on-line (under your password), and
you can copy and paste those results into another service if you wish.
Some of the advertised places are companies that are doing paternity
testing via DNA, and not genealogical DNA testing, so when investigating
a company, pay close attention as to their reasons behind the testing.
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
in two surname studies there, and we've also done the mitochondrial DNA
for the females. I've been very satisfied with their service and
explanations. Your results are shown on-line (under your password), and
you can copy and paste those results into another service if you wish.
Some of the advertised places are companies that are doing paternity
testing via DNA, and not genealogical DNA testing, so when investigating
a company, pay close attention as to their reasons behind the testing.
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
This may be a dumb question, but which genealogy DNA testing service
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?
-
Doug Corbin
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
"Thumper" wrote
I used Family Tree DNA as well since that's the company the Corbin DNA
project is using. You might want to check to see if there's a DNA project
for your surname. If so you would probably want to go with the company that
the other members have used. If there isn't a project then it probably
doesn't matter, although I think Family Tree DNA is the most popular.
There's a company in Utah that's offering free DNA testing. I just receive
my kit from them so it will be interesting to see if the results match those
from Family Tree DNA. They don't send you the results of the testing. The
results are posted into their database on their website. You certainly can't
argue with the price. The link to their web site is:
http://www.smgf.org/
Doug Corbin
This may be a dumb question, but which genealogy DNA testing service
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?
I used Family Tree DNA as well since that's the company the Corbin DNA
project is using. You might want to check to see if there's a DNA project
for your surname. If so you would probably want to go with the company that
the other members have used. If there isn't a project then it probably
doesn't matter, although I think Family Tree DNA is the most popular.
There's a company in Utah that's offering free DNA testing. I just receive
my kit from them so it will be interesting to see if the results match those
from Family Tree DNA. They don't send you the results of the testing. The
results are posted into their database on their website. You certainly can't
argue with the price. The link to their web site is:
http://www.smgf.org/
Doug Corbin
-
Dennis
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:10:39 GMT, "Doug Corbin" <bookrk@swbell.net>
wrote:
This is interesting. I took a look at their search page. In your case,
since you already have a known set of results, it should be fairly easy
for you to find your new results. But for someone who hasn't been tested
yet, how would they find their results? Especially if they have a common
surname.
P.S. I believe Sorenson was the parent company of Relative Genetics. RG
entered into a partnership with ancestry.com this past summer and no
longer does their own DNA testing. I wonder what Sorenson is up to.
Maybe under the agreement with ancestry.com they can still do testing
but are prohibited from providing results directly to the DNA donor?
--
Dennis
wrote:
There's a company in Utah that's offering free DNA testing. I just receive
my kit from them so it will be interesting to see if the results match those
from Family Tree DNA. They don't send you the results of the testing. The
results are posted into their database on their website. You certainly can't
argue with the price. The link to their web site is:
http://www.smgf.org/
This is interesting. I took a look at their search page. In your case,
since you already have a known set of results, it should be fairly easy
for you to find your new results. But for someone who hasn't been tested
yet, how would they find their results? Especially if they have a common
surname.
P.S. I believe Sorenson was the parent company of Relative Genetics. RG
entered into a partnership with ancestry.com this past summer and no
longer does their own DNA testing. I wonder what Sorenson is up to.
Maybe under the agreement with ancestry.com they can still do testing
but are prohibited from providing results directly to the DNA donor?
--
Dennis
-
Thumper
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
I have been researching the main players in DNA genealogy. I'm still
confused by the various tests and am trying to figure out which
service to use. Here is some criteria I think is important in choosing
a service:
1. Portability of data: I need to be able to export my DNA data into
as many website services as possible.
2. Biggest database wins: Like all Web 2.0 apps, the site with the
biggest database or userbase is de facto the best one to use.
3. Existing users with my family name: The more people with my name,
the better I'll be able to find relatives.
4. DNA test: I suspect all the DNA tests are the same, but I'm
confused when comparing the different products from the different
companies.
THE CONTENDERS
These are four companies I have found so far. Please feel free to add
to the list and provide facts about the service if possible.
A. GeneBase / DNA Ancestry Project
Combo Package (Y-DNA 20 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test) , $238.00 US
Advanced Combo Package (Y-DNA 44 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test), $318.00 US
* Has an accompanying site (like Geni) where people can build trees
and import DNA info
* Same company as the one selling the kits at The Bay and Best Buy in
Canada
* http://www.genebase.com
* http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
B. FamilyTreeDNA
* YDNA and mtDNA, $229 (12) or $389 (37)
* Website service looks more amateurish.
* Claims to have more than 170,000 samples in database.
* This service pre-dates the next two
* http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html
C. Identigene / GeneTree
* Sorensen Genomics company (as seen on Nightline)
* Test at Identigene is called "Ancestry by DNA" ($240)
* "Percentage of genetic ancestry is calculated based on 175 known
ancestry informative SNP markers."
* Identigene merged with GeneTree recently
* Test at GeneTree us called Mt HV-I,II,III ($149.00)
* I think is only tests maternal line. Not sure why you can't test
yDNA too.
* GeneTree is also a social networking/family tree website (like Geni)
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually.
* Mentioned in AP article
* Focus of Nightlight segment
* Apart from the consumer service, the parent company also has a free
service (http://www.smgf.org) where they take your DNA and add it to
their worldwide database. You don't get to see your individual
results.
* This may mean that Sorensen companies will have the best DNA
database around. Will this public database we merged with the consumer
ones?
D. Ancestry.com
* Paternal Lineage Test (Y-Chromosome 33), $149
* Maternal Lineage Test (Mitochondrial DNA), $179
* (both = $328)
* Ancestry is a major player in family tree info, but are they going
to be a major player in DNA? Not sure.
* They have a goal to get 50,000 samples in their database in first
year
* Starting from zero samples
* They use kit from Sorensen (same as GeneTree)
* Mentioned in AP article
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually
* http://dna.ancestry.com/
Portability of data
From what I've been able to tell, you get a bunch of numbers that you
can enter into (all) of the website databases. This is the case at
GeneTree and Ancestry.com. You simply add the 42 numbers in the boxes.
That's how you import the data. So, in theory, once you have your DNA
numbers, you could add it to as many databases as you want in the same
way as you can add your family tree dgcom file, or whatever it's
called.
In the media
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ology/home
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/sto ... 935&page=1
confused by the various tests and am trying to figure out which
service to use. Here is some criteria I think is important in choosing
a service:
1. Portability of data: I need to be able to export my DNA data into
as many website services as possible.
2. Biggest database wins: Like all Web 2.0 apps, the site with the
biggest database or userbase is de facto the best one to use.
3. Existing users with my family name: The more people with my name,
the better I'll be able to find relatives.
4. DNA test: I suspect all the DNA tests are the same, but I'm
confused when comparing the different products from the different
companies.
THE CONTENDERS
These are four companies I have found so far. Please feel free to add
to the list and provide facts about the service if possible.
A. GeneBase / DNA Ancestry Project
Combo Package (Y-DNA 20 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test) , $238.00 US
Advanced Combo Package (Y-DNA 44 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test), $318.00 US
* Has an accompanying site (like Geni) where people can build trees
and import DNA info
* Same company as the one selling the kits at The Bay and Best Buy in
Canada
* http://www.genebase.com
* http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
B. FamilyTreeDNA
* YDNA and mtDNA, $229 (12) or $389 (37)
* Website service looks more amateurish.
* Claims to have more than 170,000 samples in database.
* This service pre-dates the next two
* http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html
C. Identigene / GeneTree
* Sorensen Genomics company (as seen on Nightline)
* Test at Identigene is called "Ancestry by DNA" ($240)
* "Percentage of genetic ancestry is calculated based on 175 known
ancestry informative SNP markers."
* Identigene merged with GeneTree recently
* Test at GeneTree us called Mt HV-I,II,III ($149.00)
* I think is only tests maternal line. Not sure why you can't test
yDNA too.
* GeneTree is also a social networking/family tree website (like Geni)
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually.
* Mentioned in AP article
* Focus of Nightlight segment
* Apart from the consumer service, the parent company also has a free
service (http://www.smgf.org) where they take your DNA and add it to
their worldwide database. You don't get to see your individual
results.
* This may mean that Sorensen companies will have the best DNA
database around. Will this public database we merged with the consumer
ones?
D. Ancestry.com
* Paternal Lineage Test (Y-Chromosome 33), $149
* Maternal Lineage Test (Mitochondrial DNA), $179
* (both = $328)
* Ancestry is a major player in family tree info, but are they going
to be a major player in DNA? Not sure.
* They have a goal to get 50,000 samples in their database in first
year
* Starting from zero samples
* They use kit from Sorensen (same as GeneTree)
* Mentioned in AP article
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually
* http://dna.ancestry.com/
Portability of data
From what I've been able to tell, you get a bunch of numbers that you
can enter into (all) of the website databases. This is the case at
GeneTree and Ancestry.com. You simply add the 42 numbers in the boxes.
That's how you import the data. So, in theory, once you have your DNA
numbers, you could add it to as many databases as you want in the same
way as you can add your family tree dgcom file, or whatever it's
called.
In the media
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ology/home
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/sto ... 935&page=1
-
clifto
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Doug Corbin wrote:
Man, I'm disappointed. Only 37 testees for Sharp and not one looks likely
to be related. Kinda seems expensive, too, considering the ubiquity of
DNA testing and the fact that college kids do it in lab.
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
I used Family Tree DNA as well since that's the company the Corbin DNA
project is using. You might want to check to see if there's a DNA project
for your surname.
Man, I'm disappointed. Only 37 testees for Sharp and not one looks likely
to be related. Kinda seems expensive, too, considering the ubiquity of
DNA testing and the fact that college kids do it in lab.
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Whichever route you choose, I do recommend that you go for at least a 37
marker test. It's more expensive, but you can wind up with a lot of
exact 25 markers out of 25 markers matching, but not really be that
closely related to those who you match with. A 37 marker test helps to
narrow down the field quite a bit, and since you're looking for
relatives, then the more markers you have tested, the better. Most
people do not go to the extent of testing out to the maximum, which is
currently 67 markers.
Another thing to keep in mind is what the company charges if you want to
upgrade to a higher marker test once your initial test is done. Will
they make you do another test or simply do additional testing on the DNA
already submitted?
As for the looks of the FamilyTreeDNA website - it's not the front pages
of the website that make a difference, it's the pages that contain your
results that matter, and unfortunately you're not going to be able to
compare those until/unless you have your DNA tested with one of those
companies. A company might have a great looking page to reel you in,
but then have a difficult to understand page for your posted results.
FamilyTreeDNA is also affiliated with the National Geographic
Genographic Project, which is their attempt to map out how humans
populated the world. There is a small fee to join the Genographic
Project, though (and I believe that the fee is National Geographics, and
not FamilyTreeDNAs).
FamilyTreeDNA also has two services designed to make it easier for
people who have tested with different companies to be able to compare
their results. MitoSearch (http://www.mitosearch.org) and ySearch
(http://www.ysearch.org). I don't particularly like their lay-out - I find
them a bit cumbersome, but my husband has found them easy to use.
Good luck,
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
marker test. It's more expensive, but you can wind up with a lot of
exact 25 markers out of 25 markers matching, but not really be that
closely related to those who you match with. A 37 marker test helps to
narrow down the field quite a bit, and since you're looking for
relatives, then the more markers you have tested, the better. Most
people do not go to the extent of testing out to the maximum, which is
currently 67 markers.
Another thing to keep in mind is what the company charges if you want to
upgrade to a higher marker test once your initial test is done. Will
they make you do another test or simply do additional testing on the DNA
already submitted?
As for the looks of the FamilyTreeDNA website - it's not the front pages
of the website that make a difference, it's the pages that contain your
results that matter, and unfortunately you're not going to be able to
compare those until/unless you have your DNA tested with one of those
companies. A company might have a great looking page to reel you in,
but then have a difficult to understand page for your posted results.
FamilyTreeDNA is also affiliated with the National Geographic
Genographic Project, which is their attempt to map out how humans
populated the world. There is a small fee to join the Genographic
Project, though (and I believe that the fee is National Geographics, and
not FamilyTreeDNAs).
FamilyTreeDNA also has two services designed to make it easier for
people who have tested with different companies to be able to compare
their results. MitoSearch (http://www.mitosearch.org) and ySearch
(http://www.ysearch.org). I don't particularly like their lay-out - I find
them a bit cumbersome, but my husband has found them easy to use.
Good luck,
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
I have been researching the main players in DNA genealogy. I'm still
confused by the various tests and am trying to figure out which
service to use. Here is some criteria I think is important in choosing
a service:
1. Portability of data: I need to be able to export my DNA data into
as many website services as possible.
2. Biggest database wins: Like all Web 2.0 apps, the site with the
biggest database or userbase is de facto the best one to use.
3. Existing users with my family name: The more people with my name,
the better I'll be able to find relatives.
4. DNA test: I suspect all the DNA tests are the same, but I'm
confused when comparing the different products from the different
companies.
THE CONTENDERS
These are four companies I have found so far. Please feel free to add
to the list and provide facts about the service if possible.
A. GeneBase / DNA Ancestry Project
Combo Package (Y-DNA 20 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test) , $238.00 US
Advanced Combo Package (Y-DNA 44 Marker + mtDNA HVR1 Test), $318.00 US
* Has an accompanying site (like Geni) where people can build trees
and import DNA info
* Same company as the one selling the kits at The Bay and Best Buy in
Canada
* http://www.genebase.com
* http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
B. FamilyTreeDNA
* YDNA and mtDNA, $229 (12) or $389 (37)
* Website service looks more amateurish.
* Claims to have more than 170,000 samples in database.
* This service pre-dates the next two
* http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html
C. Identigene / GeneTree
* Sorensen Genomics company (as seen on Nightline)
* Test at Identigene is called "Ancestry by DNA" ($240)
* "Percentage of genetic ancestry is calculated based on 175 known
ancestry informative SNP markers."
* Identigene merged with GeneTree recently
* Test at GeneTree us called Mt HV-I,II,III ($149.00)
* I think is only tests maternal line. Not sure why you can't test
yDNA too.
* GeneTree is also a social networking/family tree website (like Geni)
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually.
* Mentioned in AP article
* Focus of Nightlight segment
* Apart from the consumer service, the parent company also has a free
service (http://www.smgf.org) where they take your DNA and add it to
their worldwide database. You don't get to see your individual
results.
* This may mean that Sorensen companies will have the best DNA
database around. Will this public database we merged with the consumer
ones?
D. Ancestry.com
* Paternal Lineage Test (Y-Chromosome 33), $149
* Maternal Lineage Test (Mitochondrial DNA), $179
* (both = $328)
* Ancestry is a major player in family tree info, but are they going
to be a major player in DNA? Not sure.
* They have a goal to get 50,000 samples in their database in first
year
* Starting from zero samples
* They use kit from Sorensen (same as GeneTree)
* Mentioned in AP article
* Confirmed you can import data from other DNA tests manually
* http://dna.ancestry.com/
Portability of data
From what I've been able to tell, you get a bunch of numbers that you
can enter into (all) of the website databases. This is the case at
GeneTree and Ancestry.com. You simply add the 42 numbers in the boxes.
That's how you import the data. So, in theory, once you have your DNA
numbers, you could add it to as many databases as you want in the same
way as you can add your family tree dgcom file, or whatever it's
called.
In the media
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ology/home
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/sto ... 935&page=1
-
Thumper
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Thanks for the info Cathy. Very useful to know. But I'm confused about
something. Ancestry.com offers a "Y-Chromosome 33" test. Does the 33
refer to "markers" similar to the 25, 37 and 67 markers you refer to?
something. Ancestry.com offers a "Y-Chromosome 33" test. Does the 33
refer to "markers" similar to the 25, 37 and 67 markers you refer to?
-
Sherlock Holmes
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Thumper wrote:
As usual if you can go for the one that gives you more bang for your
dollar in the long run as this will give better results long term as well.
As to suppliers that one is up to you.
If Ancestry do not have an answer online concerning the "Y-Chromosome
33" test then you can bet you bottom dollar it is a 33 marker test which
in my view is a rip off.
Watch out for the small print especially so with Ancestry.com as you
could end up paying more than you bargained on.
David
Thanks for the info Cathy. Very useful to know. But I'm confused about
something. Ancestry.com offers a "Y-Chromosome 33" test. Does the 33
refer to "markers" similar to the 25, 37 and 67 markers you refer to?
Hi Thumper,
As usual if you can go for the one that gives you more bang for your
dollar in the long run as this will give better results long term as well.
As to suppliers that one is up to you.
If Ancestry do not have an answer online concerning the "Y-Chromosome
33" test then you can bet you bottom dollar it is a 33 marker test which
in my view is a rip off.
Watch out for the small print especially so with Ancestry.com as you
could end up paying more than you bargained on.
David
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Looking at the FAQ at ancestry, their test is a 33 marker test. If
you're going to be comparing your results to results done with other
companies, then I'd try to keep my testing as uniform as possible. If
most of the other companies test at 33 and 46 (which is what ancestry
tests), then go with them. If most of the others are doing the 25, 37
and 67, then I'd go with one of those companies. I'm not yet
knowledgeable enough about DNA results to know if you're going to get
the most accurate comparisons if you're putting your 33 marker results
up against 37 marker results. Those 4 remaining markers could be a make
or break thing with determining just how closely you're related to
someone else. IF you go with ancestry, and most of the other places are
doing the 12, 25, 37 and 67 markers, then I'd go for the 46 marker test
with ancestry, as that would definitely work for comparisons with people
who have done a 37 marker test.
I would go for the highest marker test that you can afford. And if
you're interested in your mother's genealogy, then I'd add in the mt-DNA
test as well. IF you can afford it now, then it's far better to get it
done now, than to wait, and a lot of places will give you a slight
discount if you're ordering both the mt-DNA and the y-DNA kits at the
same time. Just keep in mind that you won't be getting the same type of
results on the mt-DNA testing as you will on the y-DNA testing.
There'll be a whole lot more 'matches' that probably date no later than
the 1300s with the mt-DNA tests than with the y-DNA tests. But it's
still interesting to see all of the countries where your maternal
relatives migrated, even if the migrations did happen that long ago.
Another thing that I just noticed in the ancestry FAQ, is that they
don't guarantee that they'll bank your DNA for possible future testing.
If you're going to be tested at a lower marker number, then you'll
want the company doing the testing to guarantee that they'll keep your
DNA if for a long time (or as long as physically possible) in case you
want to upgrade your testing later. FamilyTreeDNA keeps the sample DNA
for 25 years. But again, this is really only an issue if you originally
test a lower number of markers and might want to upgrade, or if you
think that new tests might be available in the future that could be of
benefit to you.
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
you're going to be comparing your results to results done with other
companies, then I'd try to keep my testing as uniform as possible. If
most of the other companies test at 33 and 46 (which is what ancestry
tests), then go with them. If most of the others are doing the 25, 37
and 67, then I'd go with one of those companies. I'm not yet
knowledgeable enough about DNA results to know if you're going to get
the most accurate comparisons if you're putting your 33 marker results
up against 37 marker results. Those 4 remaining markers could be a make
or break thing with determining just how closely you're related to
someone else. IF you go with ancestry, and most of the other places are
doing the 12, 25, 37 and 67 markers, then I'd go for the 46 marker test
with ancestry, as that would definitely work for comparisons with people
who have done a 37 marker test.
I would go for the highest marker test that you can afford. And if
you're interested in your mother's genealogy, then I'd add in the mt-DNA
test as well. IF you can afford it now, then it's far better to get it
done now, than to wait, and a lot of places will give you a slight
discount if you're ordering both the mt-DNA and the y-DNA kits at the
same time. Just keep in mind that you won't be getting the same type of
results on the mt-DNA testing as you will on the y-DNA testing.
There'll be a whole lot more 'matches' that probably date no later than
the 1300s with the mt-DNA tests than with the y-DNA tests. But it's
still interesting to see all of the countries where your maternal
relatives migrated, even if the migrations did happen that long ago.
Another thing that I just noticed in the ancestry FAQ, is that they
don't guarantee that they'll bank your DNA for possible future testing.
If you're going to be tested at a lower marker number, then you'll
want the company doing the testing to guarantee that they'll keep your
DNA if for a long time (or as long as physically possible) in case you
want to upgrade your testing later. FamilyTreeDNA keeps the sample DNA
for 25 years. But again, this is really only an issue if you originally
test a lower number of markers and might want to upgrade, or if you
think that new tests might be available in the future that could be of
benefit to you.
Cathy
Thumper wrote:
Thanks for the info Cathy. Very useful to know. But I'm confused about
something. Ancestry.com offers a "Y-Chromosome 33" test. Does the 33
refer to "markers" similar to the 25, 37 and 67 markers you refer to?
-
singhals
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Huntersglenn wrote:
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway
these results can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or
insurance), best the testing company DOESN'T keep them more
than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands
of hair or nail clippings or licked envelopes into the
Zip-locs (TM) with notes on source and date and then putting
those baggies into your bank box works just as well and it's
under YOUR control.
Cheryl
Another thing that I just noticed in the ancestry FAQ, is that they
don't guarantee that they'll bank your DNA for possible future testing.
If you're going to be tested at a lower marker number, then you'll
want the company doing the testing to guarantee that they'll keep your
DNA if for a long time (or as long as physically possible) in case you
want to upgrade your testing later. FamilyTreeDNA keeps the sample DNA
for 25 years. But again, this is really only an issue if you originally
test a lower number of markers and might want to upgrade, or if you
think that new tests might be available in the future that could be of
benefit to you.
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway
these results can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or
insurance), best the testing company DOESN'T keep them more
than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands
of hair or nail clippings or licked envelopes into the
Zip-locs (TM) with notes on source and date and then putting
those baggies into your bank box works just as well and it's
under YOUR control.
Cheryl
-
Michael Kenefick
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Cheryl, what have you done? LOL 8>)
Mike in Ohio
singhals wrote:
......
snip
Mike in Ohio
singhals wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
snip
......
snip
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway these results
can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or insurance), best the
testing company DOESN'T keep them more than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands of hair or
nail clippings or licked envelopes into the Zip-locs (TM) with notes on
source and date and then putting those baggies into your bank box works
just as well and it's under YOUR control.
Cheryl
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
singhals wrote:
A valid point...but...the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. If it was for
something criminal, then they'd most likely find out about the bank box,
and get a search warrant for that, so they'd have anything kept there.
Some of the testing companies also allow you to test without revealing
your name, or address, so you've got a pretty good privacy curtain going
on there. Which cannot be said for visits to your primary care
physician - the insurance company can get your records from him/her at
any time, and often without having to get your permission (in many
instances, that written permission was given when you filled out your
paperwork for your medical or life insurance policy and also when you
filled out paperwork at the doctor).
If I had to choose between using a few strands of my daddy's hair from
when he was still alive in 1991 with having a DNA sample from his mouth,
I'd go for the mouth swab, especially since it will have been kept in a
much better environment than the hair strands in a plastic baggie
(theoretically, anyway).
A far more serious potential breach of privacy would be the introduction
of home do-it-yourself paternity DNA testing kits - they're already
being marketed on the west coast - get the kid's DNA sample, the
mother's DNA sample and the suspected father/not father's DNA sample and
mail it in with a check, and voila!
So, another thing to maybe look at when deciding on a testing service is
their privacy guarantees, and can you be anonymously tested if you so
desire? If this isn't something that the OP is worried about, then it's
definitely something that someone else might worry over, and would find
helpful to ask when searching for a testing service.
Cathy
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway these results
can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or insurance), best the
testing company DOESN'T keep them more than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands of hair or
nail clippings or licked envelopes into the Zip-locs (TM) with notes on
source and date and then putting those baggies into your bank box works
just as well and it's under YOUR control.
Cheryl
A valid point...but...the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. If it was for
something criminal, then they'd most likely find out about the bank box,
and get a search warrant for that, so they'd have anything kept there.
Some of the testing companies also allow you to test without revealing
your name, or address, so you've got a pretty good privacy curtain going
on there. Which cannot be said for visits to your primary care
physician - the insurance company can get your records from him/her at
any time, and often without having to get your permission (in many
instances, that written permission was given when you filled out your
paperwork for your medical or life insurance policy and also when you
filled out paperwork at the doctor).
If I had to choose between using a few strands of my daddy's hair from
when he was still alive in 1991 with having a DNA sample from his mouth,
I'd go for the mouth swab, especially since it will have been kept in a
much better environment than the hair strands in a plastic baggie
(theoretically, anyway).
A far more serious potential breach of privacy would be the introduction
of home do-it-yourself paternity DNA testing kits - they're already
being marketed on the west coast - get the kid's DNA sample, the
mother's DNA sample and the suspected father/not father's DNA sample and
mail it in with a check, and voila!
So, another thing to maybe look at when deciding on a testing service is
their privacy guarantees, and can you be anonymously tested if you so
desire? If this isn't something that the OP is worried about, then it's
definitely something that someone else might worry over, and would find
helpful to ask when searching for a testing service.
Cathy
-
singhals
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
(G) Man, what a suspicious mind you've got! 
Cheryl
Michael Kenefick wrote:
Cheryl
Michael Kenefick wrote:
Cheryl, what have you done? LOL 8>)
Mike in Ohio
singhals wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
snip
.....
snip
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway these
results can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or insurance), best
the testing company DOESN'T keep them more than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands of hair or
nail clippings or licked envelopes into the Zip-locs (TM) with notes
on source and date and then putting those baggies into your bank box
works just as well and it's under YOUR control.
Cheryl
-
cecilia
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Huntersglenn wrote:
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
-
singhals
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
cecilia wrote:
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
Cheryl
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
Cheryl
-
T.M. Sommers
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
singhals wrote:
The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA.
Since they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure
on them, so they make better molecular clocks. If they did code
for genes, then some mutations would be lost because they were
fatal. But with junk DNA all the mutations stick around, because
they don't matter, so you can, with an assumed mutation rate,
measure when two lines diverged.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
cecilia wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance company
knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great. IF
either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA.
Since they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure
on them, so they make better molecular clocks. If they did code
for genes, then some mutations would be lost because they were
fatal. But with junk DNA all the mutations stick around, because
they don't matter, so you can, with an assumed mutation rate,
measure when two lines diverged.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
-
Sherlock Holmes
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
T.M. Sommers wrote:
Hi,
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
Some one is trying to sell us a Pig in a poke, con job, scam, rip off,
lie, cheat us out of our hard earned income.
As Benny Hill once said never Assume as you make an Ass out of U and Me.
Now lets get back to some real Genealogical detective work.
David
singhals wrote:
cecilia wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance company
knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great. IF
either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to
get it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since they
don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so they
make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then some
mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk DNA all
the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you can, with
an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged.
Hi,
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
Some one is trying to sell us a Pig in a poke, con job, scam, rip off,
lie, cheat us out of our hard earned income.
As Benny Hill once said never Assume as you make an Ass out of U and Me.
Now lets get back to some real Genealogical detective work.
David
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
cecilia wrote:
and undisclosed data may invalidate a later claim
read the contract of insurance very carefully before you sign it
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
and undisclosed data may invalidate a later claim
read the contract of insurance very carefully before you sign it
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
singhals wrote:
irrelevant
your own private knowledge is what counts
any "pre-existing medical condition" must be revealed
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
cecilia wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance company
knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great. IF
either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
irrelevant
your own private knowledge is what counts
any "pre-existing medical condition" must be revealed
Hugh W
--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 9, 7:49 am, singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:
your test results and test sample in a "genetic genealogy" project
will not be used nor subpoenaed in any criminal / insurance cases ...
the MAIN reason being the chain of custody would be called into
question right away
what proof in these home collection test kits
is there as to exactly whom the test sample came from, and then the
sample is sent through the postal service to the testing facility,
where upon they transfer it to the testing lab ... in main cases
through the postal service again
Often times the person who
submitted the test sample, is not the same person who supplied the
test sample
for criminal cases ... a simple court order and they can collect a
fresh sample directly from you personally at will anytime
for insurance cases ... LOL have you [or even your parents] ever read
the fine print when ever you went to the doctors or hospital for even
just a simple blood test ... from one drop of blood or any other body
fluid samples .... they got your info already [in most cases from enos
ago when many of us were young children] generally what ever medical
conditions we were predestine to have, were already capsulated in our
DNA and along the way environment / man made events and the like,
fostered them along and "might" have added to them somewhat here and
there
Remember the study of human DNA, actually is not anything new ... ONLY
the usage of it as an "aid" in genetic genealogy
besides the markers that are being tested for in "genetic genealogy"
are basically of no real value in criminal / insurance cases ... as
the markers that are being tested for in "genetic genealogy" will only
identify "groups" of people who are closely related and NOT specific
individuals
so a testing facility that "does" provide for "long term" storage is
ideal and can saves you money in the long run ... avoiding the
additional time and fees for having another test sample processed and
re-analyzed for any future upgrade testing that might come
along
what was it ... three years ago FTDNA only offered 25-markers test
results .... now they offer 67-markers and many other specialty marker
tests since then, that aren't currently part of the four testing
panels they offer for genetic genealogy surname / geographic
projects
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
Huntersglenn wrote:
Another thing that I just noticed in the ancestry FAQ, is that they
don't guarantee that they'll bank your DNA for possible future testing.
If you're going to be tested at a lower marker number, then you'll
want the company doing the testing to guarantee that they'll keep your
DNA if for a long time (or as long as physically possible) in case you
want to upgrade your testing later. FamilyTreeDNA keeps the sample DNA
for 25 years. But again, this is really only an issue if you originally
test a lower number of markers and might want to upgrade, or if you
think that new tests might be available in the future that could be of
benefit to you.
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway
these results can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or
insurance), best the testing company DOESN'T keep them more
than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands
of hair or nail clippings or licked envelopes into the
Zip-locs (TM) with notes on source and date and then putting
those baggies into your bank box works just as well and it's
under YOUR control.
Cheryl
your test results and test sample in a "genetic genealogy" project
will not be used nor subpoenaed in any criminal / insurance cases ...
the MAIN reason being the chain of custody would be called into
question right away
is there as to exactly whom the test sample came from, and then the
sample is sent through the postal service to the testing facility,
where upon they transfer it to the testing lab ... in main cases
through the postal service again
submitted the test sample, is not the same person who supplied the
test sample
for criminal cases ... a simple court order and they can collect a
fresh sample directly from you personally at will anytime
for insurance cases ... LOL have you [or even your parents] ever read
the fine print when ever you went to the doctors or hospital for even
just a simple blood test ... from one drop of blood or any other body
fluid samples .... they got your info already [in most cases from enos
ago when many of us were young children] generally what ever medical
conditions we were predestine to have, were already capsulated in our
DNA and along the way environment / man made events and the like,
fostered them along and "might" have added to them somewhat here and
there
Remember the study of human DNA, actually is not anything new ... ONLY
the usage of it as an "aid" in genetic genealogy
besides the markers that are being tested for in "genetic genealogy"
are basically of no real value in criminal / insurance cases ... as
the markers that are being tested for in "genetic genealogy" will only
identify "groups" of people who are closely related and NOT specific
individuals
so a testing facility that "does" provide for "long term" storage is
ideal and can saves you money in the long run ... avoiding the
additional time and fees for having another test sample processed and
re-analyzed for any future upgrade testing that might come
along
what was it ... three years ago FTDNA only offered 25-markers test
results .... now they offer 67-markers and many other specialty marker
tests since then, that aren't currently part of the four testing
panels they offer for genetic genealogy surname / geographic
projects
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 9, 4:13 pm, Huntersglenn <huntersgl...@cox.net> wrote:
True Cathy - no photo ID is required
surname project
participants can be and usually are anonymous to people [at least]
outside of the individual project ... really the identity of the
testing participant is not mandatory to be known, just that the person
who supplied the test sample is in fact, of the purported lineage that
is being researched
that's what the testing is actually all
about
on the topic of paternity testing
although this sort of testing
for "genetic genealogy" isn't typically used for paternity testing ...
I usually suggest that father-son pairs DO NOT be tested within a
surname project "publicly" ... as a mis-match of just a handful of
markers in their haplotypes, WILL be a shocking indication to some, of
an NPE issue [non-paternal-event], i.e. daddy is not the biological
father, if not already known and/or suspected "/ when an issue
like this, comes up between distant cousins it usually not so hard to
swallow, as it is when it's a next of kin relationship ...
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
singhals wrote:
But then, OTOH --? If you're worried that somehow someway these results
can be subpoenaed for any reason (criminal or insurance), best the
testing company DOESN'T keep them more than 30 days.
Against better testing coming along, surely putting strands of hair or
nail clippings or licked envelopes into the Zip-locs (TM) with notes on
source and date and then putting those baggies into your bank box works
just as well and it's under YOUR control.
Cheryl
A valid point...but...the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. If it was for
something criminal, then they'd most likely find out about the bank box,
and get a search warrant for that, so they'd have anything kept there.
Some of the testing companies also allow you to test without revealing
your name, or address, so you've got a pretty good privacy curtain going
on there. Which cannot be said for visits to your primary care
physician - the insurance company can get your records from him/her at
any time, and often without having to get your permission (in many
instances, that written permission was given when you filled out your
paperwork for your medical or life insurance policy and also when you
filled out paperwork at the doctor).
If I had to choose between using a few strands of my daddy's hair from
when he was still alive in 1991 with having a DNA sample from his mouth,
I'd go for the mouth swab, especially since it will have been kept in a
much better environment than the hair strands in a plastic baggie
(theoretically, anyway).
A far more serious potential breach of privacy would be the introduction
of home do-it-yourself paternity DNA testing kits - they're already
being marketed on the west coast - get the kid's DNA sample, the
mother's DNA sample and the suspected father/not father's DNA sample and
mail it in with a check, and voila!
So, another thing to maybe look at when deciding on a testing service is
their privacy guarantees, and can you be anonymously tested if you so
desire? If this isn't something that the OP is worried about, then it's
definitely something that someone else might worry over, and would find
helpful to ask when searching for a testing service.
Cathy
True Cathy - no photo ID is required
participants can be and usually are anonymous to people [at least]
outside of the individual project ... really the identity of the
testing participant is not mandatory to be known, just that the person
who supplied the test sample is in fact, of the purported lineage that
is being researched
about
on the topic of paternity testing
for "genetic genealogy" isn't typically used for paternity testing ...
I usually suggest that father-son pairs DO NOT be tested within a
surname project "publicly" ... as a mis-match of just a handful of
markers in their haplotypes, WILL be a shocking indication to some, of
an NPE issue [non-paternal-event], i.e. daddy is not the biological
father, if not already known and/or suspected "/ when an issue
like this, comes up between distant cousins it usually not so hard to
swallow, as it is when it's a next of kin relationship ...
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 10, 7:15 am, my...@ic24.net (cecilia) wrote:
at the amount of profit insurance companies have reported to be bank
rolling ... do we actually think they are paying someone to be
trolling the internet searching for the limited amount of gedcom files
listing that sort of info ... LOL
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance
company knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great.
IF either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to get
it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
at the amount of profit insurance companies have reported to be bank
rolling ... do we actually think they are paying someone to be
trolling the internet searching for the limited amount of gedcom files
listing that sort of info ... LOL
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
-
T.M. Sommers
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Not at all. 'Assumed' in this context simply means that the
value is, as far as the present calculation goes, a parameter.
It does not mean that the value has been arrived at by guesswork,
only that it has been arrived at elsewhere. And don't assume
that you know what 'parameter' means; it has a specific technical
meaning in mathematics.
The mutation rate is much too low to be used as a clock in
genealogy. The whole point of the exercise is that you can build
trees because the rate is so low that many generations will pass
by with the DNA unchanged. The reason mtDNA and Y DNA is used is
that those two pieces, and only those pieces, do not undergo
recombination, and are passed intact from parent to child.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
T.M. Sommers wrote:
singhals wrote:
cecilia wrote:
Huntersglenn wrote:
[...].the likelihood of the government or an insurance company
knowing about the DNA genealogy testing isn't all that great. IF
either entity wanted my DNA that badly, they'd most likely opt to
get it directly from me, or from my house, or my doctor. [...]
An insurance company might be as interested in the ages at and causes
of death of one's last three generations of ancestors.
Another reason not to put too much on line? (g)
The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since
they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so
they make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then
some mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk
DNA all the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you
can, with an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged.
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best
Not at all. 'Assumed' in this context simply means that the
value is, as far as the present calculation goes, a parameter.
It does not mean that the value has been arrived at by guesswork,
only that it has been arrived at elsewhere. And don't assume
that you know what 'parameter' means; it has a specific technical
meaning in mathematics.
and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
The mutation rate is much too low to be used as a clock in
genealogy. The whole point of the exercise is that you can build
trees because the rate is so low that many generations will pass
by with the DNA unchanged. The reason mtDNA and Y DNA is used is
that those two pieces, and only those pieces, do not undergo
recombination, and are passed intact from parent to child.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 10, 10:26 am, Sherlock Holmes <hawke_eye_da...@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
hey Sherlock -
did you not read the subject line of this thread "/
obviously you took a left turn into an area you are not interested in,
and/or it doesn't jive with your ... can we ASSUME shotty
investigative endeavors
this type of genetic research is an AID with proven results, weather
you want to believe it or not ... the facts are, DNA doesn't lie nor
does it support fictitious research efforts
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
wrote:
Hi,
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
Some one is trying to sell us a Pig in a poke, con job, scam, rip off,
lie, cheat us out of our hard earned income.
As Benny Hill once said never Assume as you make an Ass out of U and Me.
Now lets get back to some real Genealogical detective work.
David
hey Sherlock -
did you not read the subject line of this thread "/
obviously you took a left turn into an area you are not interested in,
and/or it doesn't jive with your ... can we ASSUME shotty
investigative endeavors
this type of genetic research is an AID with proven results, weather
you want to believe it or not ... the facts are, DNA doesn't lie nor
does it support fictitious research efforts
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 7, 8:54 am, Thumper <thumperstra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thumper - of your contenders ... I will let you decide if contender
"A" should actually be banished from your list or not "/
check this out, in regards to GeneBase ... CBC's Marketplace TV show
aired across Canada on 12/05/07, can be viewed online at:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/
I personally prefer a company that is more responsive to the
client ... I am not sold on a flash website, but more on the product
line and resources that they have to offer
------------------------------------
your "B" contender
the prices that you quoted for FTDNA are not project "group rates"
which are quite a bit cheaper
if no surname project [or one with a variant of your spelling] exist
yet ... you can request one be created on your own, or contact
WorldFamilies.net http://www.worldfamilies.net/ and ask them to
request it [that is if you don't want to be the project admin
yourself] ... and then place your test kit order to get the "group
rate" that way
the FTDNA "group rates" current as of this posting are ....
Y-DNA [males only] 12-marker $99, 25-marker $148, 37-marker $189, 67-
marker $269
mtDNA [for both males or females] HVR-1 $129 and HVR-1 & 2 $189
Y-DNA 12 marker with mtDNA [HVR-1 only] $179
Y-DNA 37 markers with mtDNA Plus [HVR-1 & 2] $339
Y-DNA 67 markers with mtDNA Plus [HVR-1 & 2] $409
FTDNA also offers a conversion test for those that have already been
tested at some other commercial lab
Y-DNA 12--$59 Y-DNA 25--$89 Y-DNA 37--$119
you can read more about that on the WorldFamilies.net website here ...
http://www.wfnforum.net/index.php?topic ... #msg102379
ALSO FTDNA's partnership with National Geographic Society in their
Genographic Project https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/gen ... urney.html
.... you could order a test kit from them for just under $100 for
either the Y-DNA 12-marker or the mtDNA HVR-1 panel ... and after
getting your results from them, you could transfer [copy] your results
into a surname or geographical project at FTDNA ... which will allow
you to upgrade your results and also compare your results with the
larger "private" database they have
public participation in the
Genographic Project is processed by FTDNA through the Lab at the
University of Arizona ...
------------------------------------
your "C" contender(s) ... is a bit complicated as you are mentioning
more than one facility, under the large umbrella of SMGF
the test "Ancestry by DNA" is Autosomal DNA, which is the 22 pairs
of non-sex chromosomes found in the nucleus, which is not Y-DNA nor
mtDNA testing, but everything else that comes down to one from all of
their ancestors ... that DNA material "recombines" with each
subsequent generation, and that type of testing will not tell you from
which specific ancestor this or that ethnic / regional heritage came
from ... Also the practice of that sort of testing has been reported
to produced "dubious results" ... being that there are cases where
biological siblings and an even greater surprise of twins who have not
received identical test results "/ i.e. we each receive a "mixture"
that's recombined and doesn't appear to be in the exact same amounts
and/or order / copies
GeneTree is the up and coming [somewhat] replacement for [the former
Relative Genetics, which [SMGF] Sorenson Molecular Genealogy
Foundation, sold to Ancestry.com this past summer 2007] ...
preforming search in the GeneTree database, will pick up on "matching"
results from the SMGF database also
problem here, is you most
likely will not be able to contact those distant genetic cousins that
you might match up with [without some genealogical detective work on
the outside] ...
The free testing that SMGF offer themselves is great for those who
want to see how it works, but don't want to put any funds out just
yet
But keep in mind [1] they will "not" tell you when your
results will be posted to their public database, [2] your identity is
kept "private" so no one will be able to contact you through there ...
so you ask how will I know when my results are posted, and/or how will
I find my own results
When you submit your test sample to them,
you will be required to also submit at least a 4-generation pedigree
chart [which in turn will be combined with your results when posted to
the website ... yes "privacy" of names and data on living individual
in your ped-chart will be blocked out] ... SMGF does send out notices
to those who are on an "update mailing list" when the website is
updated, approximately 2 to 4 times a year ... once you get one of
these notices, you can go to their website and run a search for your
surname and from the data you supplied on your ped-chart, you will be
able to tell if and which test results are yours, when they eventually
get posted
also note that test results can take up to 6 months to
a year or more before they are posted "/ .... this is their own
research and you didn't have to pay for it, so lots of patients is in
order here
oh and one more thing ... they do have genealogical
researchers on staff, that will take the liberty of adding /
correcting your ped-chart [sometimes without rhyme nor reason] and
amend your data supplemented with [AFN info] Ancestral File Number ...
typically something you can find at FamilySearch.org online submitted
LDS records
------------------------------------
your "D" contender ... briefly mentioned above also
this is their
second time Anestry.com has venture into the DNA arena ...
they have a cleaver way of selling more markers than most will
actually get results for
i.e. marker 464 normally has four copies
reported as a, b, c and d ... "some" people have additional copies at
this marker e, f and g the former [RG] Relative Genetics advertised
43-markers not 46 "/
Incidentally ... RG [now DNA-Ancestry] and DNA-Heritage a UK company,
both use the Sorenson Lab, and test for the exact same markers and
number of them
------------------------------------
On the ISOGG http://www.isogg.org website click on "Resources" and in the
category of "DNA for Beginners" there are two links for some
informational comparison charts ... they need to be updated just a
tad, but still useful
note that the RG transition has been
completed just yet "/
Hope this was some what helpful
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
I have been researching the main players in DNA genealogy. I'm still
confused by the various tests and am trying to figure out which
service to use.
Thumper - of your contenders ... I will let you decide if contender
"A" should actually be banished from your list or not "/
check this out, in regards to GeneBase ... CBC's Marketplace TV show
aired across Canada on 12/05/07, can be viewed online at:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/
I personally prefer a company that is more responsive to the
client ... I am not sold on a flash website, but more on the product
line and resources that they have to offer
------------------------------------
your "B" contender
the prices that you quoted for FTDNA are not project "group rates"
which are quite a bit cheaper
if no surname project [or one with a variant of your spelling] exist
yet ... you can request one be created on your own, or contact
WorldFamilies.net http://www.worldfamilies.net/ and ask them to
request it [that is if you don't want to be the project admin
yourself] ... and then place your test kit order to get the "group
rate" that way
the FTDNA "group rates" current as of this posting are ....
Y-DNA [males only] 12-marker $99, 25-marker $148, 37-marker $189, 67-
marker $269
mtDNA [for both males or females] HVR-1 $129 and HVR-1 & 2 $189
Y-DNA 12 marker with mtDNA [HVR-1 only] $179
Y-DNA 37 markers with mtDNA Plus [HVR-1 & 2] $339
Y-DNA 67 markers with mtDNA Plus [HVR-1 & 2] $409
FTDNA also offers a conversion test for those that have already been
tested at some other commercial lab
Y-DNA 12--$59 Y-DNA 25--$89 Y-DNA 37--$119
you can read more about that on the WorldFamilies.net website here ...
http://www.wfnforum.net/index.php?topic ... #msg102379
ALSO FTDNA's partnership with National Geographic Society in their
Genographic Project https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/gen ... urney.html
.... you could order a test kit from them for just under $100 for
either the Y-DNA 12-marker or the mtDNA HVR-1 panel ... and after
getting your results from them, you could transfer [copy] your results
into a surname or geographical project at FTDNA ... which will allow
you to upgrade your results and also compare your results with the
larger "private" database they have
Genographic Project is processed by FTDNA through the Lab at the
University of Arizona ...
------------------------------------
your "C" contender(s) ... is a bit complicated as you are mentioning
more than one facility, under the large umbrella of SMGF
the test "Ancestry by DNA" is Autosomal DNA, which is the 22 pairs
of non-sex chromosomes found in the nucleus, which is not Y-DNA nor
mtDNA testing, but everything else that comes down to one from all of
their ancestors ... that DNA material "recombines" with each
subsequent generation, and that type of testing will not tell you from
which specific ancestor this or that ethnic / regional heritage came
from ... Also the practice of that sort of testing has been reported
to produced "dubious results" ... being that there are cases where
biological siblings and an even greater surprise of twins who have not
received identical test results "/ i.e. we each receive a "mixture"
that's recombined and doesn't appear to be in the exact same amounts
and/or order / copies
GeneTree is the up and coming [somewhat] replacement for [the former
Relative Genetics, which [SMGF] Sorenson Molecular Genealogy
Foundation, sold to Ancestry.com this past summer 2007] ...
preforming search in the GeneTree database, will pick up on "matching"
results from the SMGF database also
likely will not be able to contact those distant genetic cousins that
you might match up with [without some genealogical detective work on
the outside] ...
The free testing that SMGF offer themselves is great for those who
want to see how it works, but don't want to put any funds out just
yet
results will be posted to their public database, [2] your identity is
kept "private" so no one will be able to contact you through there ...
so you ask how will I know when my results are posted, and/or how will
I find my own results
you will be required to also submit at least a 4-generation pedigree
chart [which in turn will be combined with your results when posted to
the website ... yes "privacy" of names and data on living individual
in your ped-chart will be blocked out] ... SMGF does send out notices
to those who are on an "update mailing list" when the website is
updated, approximately 2 to 4 times a year ... once you get one of
these notices, you can go to their website and run a search for your
surname and from the data you supplied on your ped-chart, you will be
able to tell if and which test results are yours, when they eventually
get posted
a year or more before they are posted "/ .... this is their own
research and you didn't have to pay for it, so lots of patients is in
order here
researchers on staff, that will take the liberty of adding /
correcting your ped-chart [sometimes without rhyme nor reason] and
amend your data supplemented with [AFN info] Ancestral File Number ...
typically something you can find at FamilySearch.org online submitted
LDS records
------------------------------------
your "D" contender ... briefly mentioned above also
second time Anestry.com has venture into the DNA arena ...
they have a cleaver way of selling more markers than most will
actually get results for
reported as a, b, c and d ... "some" people have additional copies at
this marker e, f and g the former [RG] Relative Genetics advertised
43-markers not 46 "/
Incidentally ... RG [now DNA-Ancestry] and DNA-Heritage a UK company,
both use the Sorenson Lab, and test for the exact same markers and
number of them
------------------------------------
On the ISOGG http://www.isogg.org website click on "Resources" and in the
category of "DNA for Beginners" there are two links for some
informational comparison charts ... they need to be updated just a
tad, but still useful
completed just yet "/
Hope this was some what helpful
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
a co-founder of ISOGG http://www.isogg.org
the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
..
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
hdpth-DNA wrote:
I just wanted to add that when we bought our test kit at FamilyTreeDNA,
we had not joined the surname project - hit the wrong button at the
wrong time <grin>. However, when we asked to be added to the surname
study for the particular surnames for the males we had had tested, we
did receive a refund from FamilyTreeDNA (at least we did on one of the
projects, I haven't checked with my husband to see if we got the same
refund on the other project).
Cathy
your "B" contender
the prices that you quoted for FTDNA are not project "group rates"
which are quite a bit cheaper
I just wanted to add that when we bought our test kit at FamilyTreeDNA,
we had not joined the surname project - hit the wrong button at the
wrong time <grin>. However, when we asked to be added to the surname
study for the particular surnames for the males we had had tested, we
did receive a refund from FamilyTreeDNA (at least we did on one of the
projects, I haven't checked with my husband to see if we got the same
refund on the other project).
Cathy
-
Sherlock Holmes
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
hdpth-DNA wrote:
The point I was getting at is that some one posted the following:
"The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since
they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so
they make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then
some mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk DNA
all the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you can,
with an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged."
Now take note in the last line it clearly says Assumed that means it is
not exact it is guessed at and has not been proven in any way shape of form.
On that bases you may as well pick an entry at random that is listed on
the IGI and assume that they are directly relate and that they are
assumed to be related with in the last ten generations.
Get real.
As for what Huntersglenn has to say for FamilyTreeDNA I am glad that
some companies have some scruples and do value their client, based on
this If I do decide to test the DNA side of my family then I am likely
to use FamilyTreeDNA's services based on the experience that
Huntersgleen has had.
Cheers Big Ears.
On Dec 10, 10:26 am, Sherlock Holmes <hawke_eye_da...@yahoo.com.au
wrote:
Hi,
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
Some one is trying to sell us a Pig in a poke, con job, scam, rip off,
lie, cheat us out of our hard earned income.
As Benny Hill once said never Assume as you make an Ass out of U and Me.
Now lets get back to some real Genealogical detective work.
David
hey Sherlock -
did you not read the subject line of this thread "/
obviously you took a left turn into an area you are not interested in,
and/or it doesn't jive with your ... can we ASSUME shotty
investigative endeavors
this type of genetic research is an AID with proven results, weather
you want to believe it or not ... the facts are, DNA doesn't lie nor
does it support fictitious research efforts
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
Hi Ken,
The point I was getting at is that some one posted the following:
"The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since
they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so
they make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then
some mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk DNA
all the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you can,
with an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged."
Now take note in the last line it clearly says Assumed that means it is
not exact it is guessed at and has not been proven in any way shape of form.
On that bases you may as well pick an entry at random that is listed on
the IGI and assume that they are directly relate and that they are
assumed to be related with in the last ten generations.
Get real.
As for what Huntersglenn has to say for FamilyTreeDNA I am glad that
some companies have some scruples and do value their client, based on
this If I do decide to test the DNA side of my family then I am likely
to use FamilyTreeDNA's services based on the experience that
Huntersgleen has had.
Cheers Big Ears.
-
T.M. Sommers
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
That is not what it meant, as I explained elsewhere.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
The point I was getting at is that some one posted the following:
"The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since
they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so
they make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then
some mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk DNA
all the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you can,
with an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged."
Now take note in the last line it clearly says Assumed that means it is
not exact it is guessed at and has not been proven in any way shape of
form.
That is not what it meant, as I explained elsewhere.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
-
hdpth-DNA
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Dec 11, 9:23 pm, Sherlock Holmes <hawke_eye_da...@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
Sorry David
the second part of your post [that I originally replied to] and the
closing comment is what I had an issue with
you have a choice to
participate or not ... but this is NOT a scam ... that probablly all I
should have said
Typically when people get into talking about mutation rates ... I sort
of skip over them somewhat, as the "assumed" formulas don't always fit
every profile, and there are lots of variables that "can" come into
play ... just like, what is the length / time frame of a
generation ? depends on if your ancestor from each generation was
the first born or last born child from the previous generation ...
those that came from prolific families, i.e. some one with 10-16+
children over 20-30+ years as apposed to another family unit with 2-4
children within 5-10+ years ... and then those that wait to marry and/
or don't have children until later in life
I myself, have
several cousins of various degrees that are actually in the generation
of my dad and/or grandfather that are closer in age to me and/or
younger that I ... one to two plus generations skip/added
To add / clarify what I think Thomas was alluding to
Gene DNA
material, commonly referred to as an "admixture" .... it recombines
with each subsequent generation, which can be a process of repairing
and/or eliminating damaged segments along the way in each generation /
individual ... where as the so called "junk" DNA the sex-chromosome is
passed on as is, with only "slight" modification every now and then,
basically an antique relic from the past
The "every now and
then" mutation rate ... can and "does" very from one family line/unit
to the next ... some more frequently than others
using FTDNA's tip report ... I have a 1st cousin 3x removed in my
hdpth-DNA project, he is 2 generations down from our [MRCA] most
recent common ancestor, where as I am 5-generations down
comparing our test results from 37-markers, we are an exact match ...
the Tip report show a probability of a MRCA at 59.37% within 2-
generations and 89.48% within 5-generations ...
with another participant in my hdpth-DNA ... we know we don't share a
MRCA within 10-generations "/ he and I have one mutation on a marker
in the 3rd panel, and the rest of the 66 markers we match exactly
the FTDNA tip report shows the probability of a MRCA at 97.76% within
10-generations
in our documented paper trails, we are both stuck
in VA around the mid 1750's so far ... oh and we both have a variant
spelling of our surname, his line has the extra E in the middle
just one of the goal of our project, to prove that the variant
spelling are in fact related and "not" to discard them
Yes Cathy's experience shows just one of the finer exceptions that
FTDNA has shown, as apposed to those that appear to just be in this
business to turn over a bigger profit, with a smaller product line,
and little support
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
..
wrote:
hdpth-DNA wrote:
On Dec 10, 10:26 am, Sherlock Holmes <hawke_eye_da...@yahoo.com.au
wrote:
Hi,
So in actual fact DNA Genealogy is guess work at the best and thus can
not be relied on concerning the number of generations involved due to
the AssUMed mutation rate.
Some one is trying to sell us a Pig in a poke, con job, scam, rip off,
lie, cheat us out of our hard earned income.
As Benny Hill once said never Assume as you make an Ass out of U and Me.
Now lets get back to some real Genealogical detective work.
David
hey Sherlock -
did you not read the subject line of this thread "/
obviously you took a left turn into an area you are not interested in,
and/or it doesn't jive with your ... can we ASSUME shotty
investigative endeavors
this type of genetic research is an AID with proven results, weather
you want to believe it or not ... the facts are, DNA doesn't lie nor
does it support fictitious research efforts
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
Hi Ken,
The point I was getting at is that some one posted the following:
"The markers used in these sorts of tests are in the junk DNA. Since
they don't code for genes, there is no selection pressure on them, so
they make better molecular clocks. If they did code for genes, then
some mutations would be lost because they were fatal. But with junk DNA
all the mutations stick around, because they don't matter, so you can,
with an assumed mutation rate, measure when two lines diverged."
Now take note in the last line it clearly says Assumed that means it is
not exact it is guessed at and has not been proven in any way shape of form.
On that bases you may as well pick an entry at random that is listed on
the IGI and assume that they are directly relate and that they are
assumed to be related with in the last ten generations.
Get real.
As for what Huntersglenn has to say for FamilyTreeDNA I am glad that
some companies have some scruples and do value their client, based on
this If I do decide to test the DNA side of my family then I am likely
to use FamilyTreeDNA's services based on the experience that
Huntersgleen has had.
Cheers Big Ears.
Sorry David
the second part of your post [that I originally replied to] and the
closing comment is what I had an issue with
participate or not ... but this is NOT a scam ... that probablly all I
should have said
Typically when people get into talking about mutation rates ... I sort
of skip over them somewhat, as the "assumed" formulas don't always fit
every profile, and there are lots of variables that "can" come into
play ... just like, what is the length / time frame of a
generation ? depends on if your ancestor from each generation was
the first born or last born child from the previous generation ...
those that came from prolific families, i.e. some one with 10-16+
children over 20-30+ years as apposed to another family unit with 2-4
children within 5-10+ years ... and then those that wait to marry and/
or don't have children until later in life
several cousins of various degrees that are actually in the generation
of my dad and/or grandfather that are closer in age to me and/or
younger that I ... one to two plus generations skip/added
To add / clarify what I think Thomas was alluding to
material, commonly referred to as an "admixture" .... it recombines
with each subsequent generation, which can be a process of repairing
and/or eliminating damaged segments along the way in each generation /
individual ... where as the so called "junk" DNA the sex-chromosome is
passed on as is, with only "slight" modification every now and then,
basically an antique relic from the past
then" mutation rate ... can and "does" very from one family line/unit
to the next ... some more frequently than others
using FTDNA's tip report ... I have a 1st cousin 3x removed in my
hdpth-DNA project, he is 2 generations down from our [MRCA] most
recent common ancestor, where as I am 5-generations down
comparing our test results from 37-markers, we are an exact match ...
the Tip report show a probability of a MRCA at 59.37% within 2-
generations and 89.48% within 5-generations ...
with another participant in my hdpth-DNA ... we know we don't share a
MRCA within 10-generations "/ he and I have one mutation on a marker
in the 3rd panel, and the rest of the 66 markers we match exactly
the FTDNA tip report shows the probability of a MRCA at 97.76% within
10-generations
in VA around the mid 1750's so far ... oh and we both have a variant
spelling of our surname, his line has the extra E in the middle
just one of the goal of our project, to prove that the variant
spelling are in fact related and "not" to discard them
Yes Cathy's experience shows just one of the finer exceptions that
FTDNA has shown, as apposed to those that appear to just be in this
business to turn over a bigger profit, with a smaller product line,
and little support
Ken -
hdpth-DNA
..
-
T.M. Sommers
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
hdpth-DNA wrote:
Admixture is something entirely unrelated.
Except for the X and Y chromosomes, everyone carries 2 of each
chromosome, one from each parent. While not identical on the
molecular level, each chromosome of a pair is functionally
identical to the other. That is, if you line them up, the
neighboring bits are the same gene (but possibly different alleles).
During normal cell division, each chromosome is simply copied,
and the daughter cells get one identical copy of each (barring
mutation). During the cell division that creates eggs or sperm,
however, the two copies of each chromosome get together and swap
corresponding bits of DNA. This is called recombination, or
jumping genes, and was discovered by Barbara McClintock. What it
means is that neither of the eventual child's chromosomes exactly
the same as either parent's DNA. This mixing is what gives
rise to the great diversity of individuals, and is what makes
sexual reproduction so successful.
The X and Y chromosomes are different. They are different from
each other, and behave differently. Only the tips of the smaller
Y chromosome undergo recombination; the rest is passed intact to
the eventual son.
Repair of damaged DNA is a different process from recombination.
It turns out that only a fraction of our DNA is actually involved
in coding for proteins (which is what DNA does). The rest is
just nonsense, such as multiple repeats of short sequences, such
as ATATATATATATATAT... . This is called junk DNA. It occurs on
all chromosomes, not just the X and Y.
The mutation rate is the same for everyone, and does not vary by
family, as far as I know.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
To add / clarify what I think Thomas was alluding toGene DNA
material, commonly referred to as an "admixture"
Admixture is something entirely unrelated.
.... it recombines
with each subsequent generation,
Except for the X and Y chromosomes, everyone carries 2 of each
chromosome, one from each parent. While not identical on the
molecular level, each chromosome of a pair is functionally
identical to the other. That is, if you line them up, the
neighboring bits are the same gene (but possibly different alleles).
During normal cell division, each chromosome is simply copied,
and the daughter cells get one identical copy of each (barring
mutation). During the cell division that creates eggs or sperm,
however, the two copies of each chromosome get together and swap
corresponding bits of DNA. This is called recombination, or
jumping genes, and was discovered by Barbara McClintock. What it
means is that neither of the eventual child's chromosomes exactly
the same as either parent's DNA. This mixing is what gives
rise to the great diversity of individuals, and is what makes
sexual reproduction so successful.
The X and Y chromosomes are different. They are different from
each other, and behave differently. Only the tips of the smaller
Y chromosome undergo recombination; the rest is passed intact to
the eventual son.
which can be a process of repairing
and/or eliminating damaged segments along the way in each generation /
individual
Repair of damaged DNA is a different process from recombination.
... where as the so called "junk" DNA the sex-chromosome is
passed on as is, with only "slight" modification every now and then,
basically an antique relic from the past
It turns out that only a fraction of our DNA is actually involved
in coding for proteins (which is what DNA does). The rest is
just nonsense, such as multiple repeats of short sequences, such
as ATATATATATATATAT... . This is called junk DNA. It occurs on
all chromosomes, not just the X and Y.
The "every now and
then" mutation rate ... can and "does" very from one family line/unit
to the next ... some more frequently than others
The mutation rate is the same for everyone, and does not vary by
family, as far as I know.
--
Thomas M. Sommers -- tms@nj.net -- AB2SB
-
Incarcerate Bush
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:24:08 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
OMG, we'd better stop any efforts to combat the problem!!!
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
OMG, we'd better stop any efforts to combat the problem!!!
-
clifto
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Incarcerate Bush wrote:
No, just get the hypocrites out of the picture.
Wait, that would have the same effect.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:24:08 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
OMG, we'd better stop any efforts to combat the problem!!!
No, just get the hypocrites out of the picture.
Wait, that would have the same effect.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
-
Bruce Remick
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9omo25-2ij.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Sort of like all the presidential candidates in Iowa bragging about how many
towns and cities in that state their entourage will be flying and/or driving
to to campaign on such topics as energy conservation and reducing one's
carbon footprint. And I can't help wish I had one of those jobs that would
let me spend the better part of a year looking for a better one, while not
doing what I was being paid for, yet drawing full pay at the same time.
Bruce
news:9omo25-2ij.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Doug Corbin wrote:
I used Family Tree DNA as well since that's the company the Corbin DNA
project is using. You might want to check to see if there's a DNA project
for your surname.
Man, I'm disappointed. Only 37 testees for Sharp and not one looks likely
to be related. Kinda seems expensive, too, considering the ubiquity of
DNA testing and the fact that college kids do it in lab.
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
Sort of like all the presidential candidates in Iowa bragging about how many
towns and cities in that state their entourage will be flying and/or driving
to to campaign on such topics as energy conservation and reducing one's
carbon footprint. And I can't help wish I had one of those jobs that would
let me spend the better part of a year looking for a better one, while not
doing what I was being paid for, yet drawing full pay at the same time.
Bruce
-
Michael Kenefick
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
I do not know the best. But try http://www.sorenson.org. They are doing free DNA
tests. I do know they will not send you a result. You have to get it on-line.
That way if you do not like the results or methods they use you can go with
the pay sites. It does appear that you can compare results from other DNA
services with their results.
At present, I am waiting for my results from Sorenson. They have not processed
it yet.
At present, I am also awaiting results the pay DNA service from
http://www.familytreedna.com under the Weaver surname group.
Mike in Ohio
Thumper wrote:
tests. I do know they will not send you a result. You have to get it on-line.
That way if you do not like the results or methods they use you can go with
the pay sites. It does appear that you can compare results from other DNA
services with their results.
At present, I am waiting for my results from Sorenson. They have not processed
it yet.
At present, I am also awaiting results the pay DNA service from
http://www.familytreedna.com under the Weaver surname group.
Mike in Ohio
Thumper wrote:
This may be a dumb question, but which genealogy DNA testing service
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?
-
Incarcerate Bush
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:04:40 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
But, this is the same ridiculous argument I heard after a Greenpeace
ship (Moby Dick) visited my town. The morons on local radio were
saying Greenpeace was hypocritical because they didn't ROW the ship.
That's just juvenile.
Incarcerate Bush wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:24:08 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
OMG, we'd better stop any efforts to combat the problem!!!
No, just get the hypocrites out of the picture.
Wait, that would have the same effect.
But, this is the same ridiculous argument I heard after a Greenpeace
ship (Moby Dick) visited my town. The morons on local radio were
saying Greenpeace was hypocritical because they didn't ROW the ship.
That's just juvenile.
-
clifto
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Incarcerate Bush wrote:
Sounds fitting to me.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:04:40 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
Incarcerate Bush wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:24:08 -0600, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
OMG, we'd better stop any efforts to combat the problem!!!
No, just get the hypocrites out of the picture.
Wait, that would have the same effect.
But, this is the same ridiculous argument I heard after a Greenpeace
ship (Moby Dick) visited my town. The morons on local radio were
saying Greenpeace was hypocritical because they didn't ROW the ship.
That's just juvenile.
Sounds fitting to me.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
-
Allen Prunty
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
To: Michael Kenefick
Re: Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
By: Michael Kenefick to alt.genealogy on Fri Jan 18 2008 01:32 pm
If that site is free I wonder what the quality of their results are compaired
to the paid sites... I'm going there now and see what we can find out.
Allen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The Derby City BBS
-= Allen Prunty =- telnet://derbycitybbs.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Where Friends Gather
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
Derby City BBS - telnet://derbycitybbs.com
Re: Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
By: Michael Kenefick to alt.genealogy on Fri Jan 18 2008 01:32 pm
I do not know the best. But try http://www.sorenson.org. They are doing free DNA
tests. I do know they will not send you a result. You have to get it
on-line.
That way if you do not like the results or methods they use you can go
with the pay sites. It does appear that you can compare results from other
DNA services with their results.
If that site is free I wonder what the quality of their results are compaired
to the paid sites... I'm going there now and see what we can find out.
Allen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The Derby City BBS
-= Allen Prunty =- telnet://derbycitybbs.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Where Friends Gather
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
Derby City BBS - telnet://derbycitybbs.com
-
Michael Kenefick
Re: Which DNA genealogy testing service should I use?
Sorry, I posted the wrong address for the Sorenson folks. The correct address
is http://www.smgf.org/.
Mike Kenefick in Ohio
Michael Kenefick wrote:
is http://www.smgf.org/.
Mike Kenefick in Ohio
Michael Kenefick wrote:
I do not know the best. But try http://www.sorenson.org. They are doing free
DNA tests. I do know they will not send you a result. You have to get
it on-line. That way if you do not like the results or methods they use
you can go with the pay sites. It does appear that you can compare
results from other DNA services with their results.
At present, I am waiting for my results from Sorenson. They have not
processed it yet.
At present, I am also awaiting results the pay DNA service from
http://www.familytreedna.com under the Weaver surname group.
Mike in Ohio
Thumper wrote:
This may be a dumb question, but which genealogy DNA testing service
should I use? They all seem to be around the same price. But I am more
interested knowing whether the data can exported to other genealogy
services.
For instance, if I discover that there exists a better database for
people comparing DNA, will I have access to the raw DNA data for my
future use? And which service provides the most comprehensive database
from which to compare your DNA. It seems to me that like any Web 2.0
service, the one with the most users is de facto the best one.
I saw a Nightline episode where they featured the company Identigene
(http://www.dnatesting.com). In Canada, the "DNA Ancestry Combo Package" is
available at Best Buy and The Bay from a company/service called
GeneBase.
Can anyone recommend "the best" service for ancestry DNA testing?