Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Jim Elbrecht
Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
I'm reading "Witchcraft Delusion in Colonial Connecticut, 1647-1697"
By John Metcalf Taylor on Google
http://books.google.com/books?id=K4Tyhu ... 1-PA137,M1
[tinyurl;
http://tinyurl.com/2q7h86 ]
and on a text file from Gutenberg [it's searchable, but I don't have
complete confidence in the transcriptions]
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/12288
On p137 the trial transcript of Goody Knapp, [convicted and hung for
witchcraft] says;
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I haue ground for what I say, I haue bine fished wthall in
private more then you are aware of; "
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
The original text in Taylor's book has 'u's for 'v's and some other
affectations that I suspect are mis-transcriptions- but I can't tell
for the life of me what Knapp is saying here.
any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jim
By John Metcalf Taylor on Google
http://books.google.com/books?id=K4Tyhu ... 1-PA137,M1
[tinyurl;
http://tinyurl.com/2q7h86 ]
and on a text file from Gutenberg [it's searchable, but I don't have
complete confidence in the transcriptions]
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/12288
On p137 the trial transcript of Goody Knapp, [convicted and hung for
witchcraft] says;
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I haue ground for what I say, I haue bine fished wthall in
private more then you are aware of; "
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
The original text in Taylor's book has 'u's for 'v's and some other
affectations that I suspect are mis-transcriptions- but I can't tell
for the life of me what Knapp is saying here.
any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jim
-
Ron
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
--
Ron Lankshear - Sydney Aust (from London- Shepherds Bush & Chiswick)
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~lankshear/
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I haue ground for what I say, I haue bine fished wthall in
private more then you are aware of; "
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
--
Ron Lankshear - Sydney Aust (from London- Shepherds Bush & Chiswick)
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~lankshear/
-
Jim Elbrecht
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:05:44 +1000, Ron <ronlank@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
-
Jim Elbrecht
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:05:44 +1000, Ron <ronlank@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
-
Jim Elbrecht
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:05:44 +1000, Ron <ronlank@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
Thanks to all- but still seeking enlightement.
Jim
-
Christopher Jahn
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com> wrote in
news:5ii363lh4j280ss3qmhm3fbl29jspnafk1@4ax.com:
"Fished" then means what it does now, and "wthall" is likely
"withal"
FISH
verb
1 : to attempt to catch fish
2 : to seek something by roundabout means <fishing for a
compliment>
3 a : to search for something underwater <fish for pearls> b : to
engage in a search by groping or feeling <fishing around in her
purse for her keys>
transitive verb
1 a : to try to catch fish in b : to fish with : use (as a boat,
net, or bait) in fishing
2 a : to go fishing for <fish salmon> b : to pull or draw as if
fishing <fished the ball from under the car> <fish wires through
a conduit>
withal
Pronunciation: wi-'[th]ol, -'thol
Function: adverb
Etymology: Middle English, from with + all, al all
1 : together with this : BESIDES <a supporter of all constructive
work and withal an excellent businessman -- A. W. Long>
2 archaic : THEREWITH 1
3 : on the other hand : NEVERTHELESS
And that gives us:
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I have ground for what I say, I have been [seeking]
[therewith] in private more then you are aware of; "
Goody Knapp is saying that she believes that Goody Stayples has
accused her of witchcraft because Knapp has been quietly asking
her neighbors about that testimony.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
pulled out a pair of pliers and pulled a bullet out of my chest
news:5ii363lh4j280ss3qmhm3fbl29jspnafk1@4ax.com:
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
The original text in Taylor's book has 'u's for 'v's and some
other affectations that I suspect are mis-transcriptions- but
I can't tell for the life of me what Knapp is saying here.
"Fished" then means what it does now, and "wthall" is likely
"withal"
FISH
verb
1 : to attempt to catch fish
2 : to seek something by roundabout means <fishing for a
compliment>
3 a : to search for something underwater <fish for pearls> b : to
engage in a search by groping or feeling <fishing around in her
purse for her keys>
transitive verb
1 a : to try to catch fish in b : to fish with : use (as a boat,
net, or bait) in fishing
2 a : to go fishing for <fish salmon> b : to pull or draw as if
fishing <fished the ball from under the car> <fish wires through
a conduit>
withal
Pronunciation: wi-'[th]ol, -'thol
Function: adverb
Etymology: Middle English, from with + all, al all
1 : together with this : BESIDES <a supporter of all constructive
work and withal an excellent businessman -- A. W. Long>
2 archaic : THEREWITH 1
3 : on the other hand : NEVERTHELESS
And that gives us:
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I have ground for what I say, I have been [seeking]
[therewith] in private more then you are aware of; "
Goody Knapp is saying that she believes that Goody Stayples has
accused her of witchcraft because Knapp has been quietly asking
her neighbors about that testimony.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
pulled out a pair of pliers and pulled a bullet out of my chest
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
in 1908 scholarship of old english was patchy and often romantic
eg
ye olde tea room
"ye" = clerks abbreviation for "the" in MSS
what source did the 1908 book have?
where is the original ms form the trial?
Hugh W
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:05:44 +1000, Ron <ronlank@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
In the sense that "fished" means "seek directly" and he says in private
- could he mean prayer - he actively sought God in those terrible events
I don't think it would be prayer but my mind is still open- and that
usage of 'fished' had totally escaped me.
Interestingly I've gotten a couple replies privately-
Bernie from NZ offered; "It is possible that the word is "fashed", a
Scottish word meaning "angered" or "annoyed" or "troubled"; depending
on what went before, it's hard to say. "
And David wondered if it could be OCR errors. I thought the same
thing when i saw the transcription on project Gutenberg, but the
google book is scans of the original 1908 book. The phrase itself is
repeated in the table of contents so I don't think it is a typesetting
error either. [though I haven't ruled that out]
in 1908 scholarship of old english was patchy and often romantic
eg
ye olde tea room
"ye" = clerks abbreviation for "the" in MSS
what source did the 1908 book have?
where is the original ms form the trial?
Hugh W
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
Jim Elbrecht
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 21:26:32 -0500, Christopher Jahn <xjahn@yahoo.com>
wrote:
-snip-
Thank you-- That certainly makes sense. Sometimes things are
exactly what they seem.
Jim
wrote:
Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com> wrote in
news:5ii363lh4j280ss3qmhm3fbl29jspnafk1@4ax.com:
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
-snip-
"Fished" then means what it does now, and "wthall" is likely
"withal"
-snip-
And that gives us:
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I have ground for what I say, I have been [seeking]
[therewith] in private more then you are aware of; "
Goody Knapp is saying that she believes that Goody Stayples has
accused her of witchcraft because Knapp has been quietly asking
her neighbors about that testimony.
Thank you-- That certainly makes sense. Sometimes things are
exactly what they seem.
Jim
-
Jim Elbrecht
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 08:25:32 +0100, Hugh Watkins
<hugh.watkins@gmail.com> wrote:
-snip-
by using the KISS system.
The author used a bibliography at the end rather than specific
footnotes. The bibliography includes about 70 sources ranging from
CT Archives & some probate records- to some recognized historians
[Bancroft, trumbull, Barber. . .] and run to a Longfellow play,
Hawthorne's "Scarlet Letter".
I think I'll leave the content of this one suspect- but the subject
matter is interesting.
Jim
<hugh.watkins@gmail.com> wrote:
-snip-
in 1908 scholarship of old english was patchy and often romantic
That was my feeling, too- but I think Christopher may have nailed it
by using the KISS system.
eg
ye olde tea room
"ye" = clerks abbreviation for "the" in MSS
what source did the 1908 book have?
where is the original ms form the trial?
The author used a bibliography at the end rather than specific
footnotes. The bibliography includes about 70 sources ranging from
CT Archives & some probate records- to some recognized historians
[Bancroft, trumbull, Barber. . .] and run to a Longfellow play,
Hawthorne's "Scarlet Letter".
I think I'll leave the content of this one suspect- but the subject
matter is interesting.
Jim
-
jj206
Re: Translation- 1653 CT English to modern US English
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Knapps wife said, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not so much as I
doe, you know not what hath bine said to me in private; and after they was
gon, of her owne accord, betweene she & I, goody Knapp said she knew
nothing against goodwife Staplyes of being a witch.
http://www.historicpelham.com/BlogArchi ... 060707.htm
Jonathan
I'm reading "Witchcraft Delusion in Colonial Connecticut, 1647-1697"
By John Metcalf Taylor on Google
http://books.google.com/books?id=K4Tyhu ... 1-PA137,M1
[tinyurl;
http://tinyurl.com/2q7h86 ]
and on a text file from Gutenberg [it's searchable, but I don't have
complete confidence in the transcriptions]
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/12288
On p137 the trial transcript of Goody Knapp, [convicted and hung for
witchcraft] says;
"Knapp replyed, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not what I
know, I haue ground for what I say, I haue bine fished wthall in
private more then you are aware of; "
"I have been 'fished wthall'??
The original text in Taylor's book has 'u's for 'v's and some other
affectations that I suspect are mis-transcriptions- but I can't tell
for the life of me what Knapp is saying here.
Knapps wife said, goodman Lyon hold yor tongue, you know not so much as I
doe, you know not what hath bine said to me in private; and after they was
gon, of her owne accord, betweene she & I, goody Knapp said she knew
nothing against goodwife Staplyes of being a witch.
http://www.historicpelham.com/BlogArchi ... 060707.htm
Jonathan