OT? UK criminal records

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Jaxtraw

OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av Jaxtraw » 19 mai 2007 12:23:01

Hi, I hope this group is the right place for this query, if not I apologise
and please somebody direct me to the right group :)

What I'm wondering about is whether it's possible to discover whether a
fairly recent ancestor, specifically a grandfather who died in 1959, served
some time in prison. I've no real justification for this other than
nosiness- there's a suspicion, that's all, and now that only my sister and
myself are left of the family and there is nobody else who'd care, nor more
significantly be hurt if this were the case, we're just intrigued to find
out whether said grandfather did some time.

The suspicion comes from a period we've heard about, early in the 1950s,
where he was purportedly in hospital and so ill that nobody but his wife
(i.e. my grandmother) was allowed to visit him, including his daughters
(i.e. my now dead mother and aunt). Apparently my grandmother visited him at
the same time every day and then of a sudden he was discharged as fit as he
went in. It's never really rung true; even if there were a time when he was
in intensive care or whatnot it's difficult to believe that right up to the
day he was discharged he was too ill to be seen by his own daughters. My
father has always suspected he went to prison.

So, being a nosey b*gger, I'm wondering if there's some way to find this out
from official records. I know nothing at all about this and am wondering if
anyone can offer some advice (other than telling me not to be so nosey :) As
I said, there's no intention here to cause trouble by stirring the poo.
Everyone who would have cared or been hurt by this are now dead. It would
just be fascinating to me and my sister to know yay or nay. We know his
name, address, and it would have been the early 1950s.

Many thanks for reading, any help much appreciated,


Ian

singhals

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av singhals » 19 mai 2007 16:44:37

Jaxtraw wrote:

Hi, I hope this group is the right place for this query, if not I apologise
and please somebody direct me to the right group :)

What I'm wondering about is whether it's possible to discover whether a
fairly recent ancestor, specifically a grandfather who died in 1959, served
some time in prison. I've no real justification for this other than
nosiness- there's a suspicion, that's all, and now that only my sister and
myself are left of the family and there is nobody else who'd care, nor more
significantly be hurt if this were the case, we're just intrigued to find
out whether said grandfather did some time.

The suspicion comes from a period we've heard about, early in the 1950s,
where he was purportedly in hospital and so ill that nobody but his wife
(i.e. my grandmother) was allowed to visit him, including his daughters
(i.e. my now dead mother and aunt). Apparently my grandmother visited him at
the same time every day and then of a sudden he was discharged as fit as he
went in. It's never really rung true; even if there were a time when he was
in intensive care or whatnot it's difficult to believe that right up to the
day he was discharged he was too ill to be seen by his own daughters. My
father has always suspected he went to prison.

So, being a nosey b*gger, I'm wondering if there's some way to find this out
from official records. I know nothing at all about this and am wondering if
anyone can offer some advice (other than telling me not to be so nosey :) As
I said, there's no intention here to cause trouble by stirring the poo.
Everyone who would have cared or been hurt by this are now dead. It would
just be fascinating to me and my sister to know yay or nay. We know his
name, address, and it would have been the early 1950s.

Many thanks for reading, any help much appreciated,


Ian




First off, you'd be more likely to get help on
soc.genealogy.britian

Prisons in the US rarely offer daily visitations and I
assume that's true in Britain as well. That one fact would
rule in/rule out the possibility.

The stated facts do fit some illnesses in the early 1950s --
TB would be the first to come to mind -- where visitors
WOULD be limited to prevent their infection, and from what
I've read, release WOULD be sudden and unannounced.

You also need to remember that in the early 1950s, few
people thought anyone under 16 needed to know much of
anything about what was going on. And being sent to a TB
hospital wasn't something the family would _talk_ about
because by 1950s, it was beginning to wane and the stigma
became greater.

FWIW.

Cheryl

Charani

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av Charani » 20 mai 2007 10:22:01

On Sat, 19 May 2007 12:23:01 +0100, Jaxtraw wrote:

The suspicion comes from a period we've heard about, early in the 1950s,
where he was purportedly in hospital and so ill that nobody but his wife
(i.e. my grandmother) was allowed to visit him, including his daughters
(i.e. my now dead mother and aunt). Apparently my grandmother visited him at
the same time every day and then of a sudden he was discharged as fit as he
went in. It's never really rung true; even if there were a time when he was
in intensive care or whatnot it's difficult to believe that right up to the
day he was discharged he was too ill to be seen by his own daughters. My
father has always suspected he went to prison.

As Cheryl says, soc.genealogy.britain is the better group *but* I
would say that it is probably true that your grandfather *was* in
hospital and if it was an isolation hospital then that would restrict
who could or could not see him. All hospitals had and still have set
visiting hours which would account for why your grandmother visited at
a specific time. Another thing to bear in mind is that in the 1950s
children weren't normally allowed to visit anyway. If he was in an
isolation hospital, then he wouldn't have been allowed out until he
was fully fit. He would also have been admitted as soon as he was
ill, so it would not necessarily have been apparent that he was
seriously ill.

My sister was admitted to an isolation hospital. Only my parents were
allowed to visit her and only at a specified time. She didn't appear
to be unwell to me and when she came out she was as fit as a fiddle.

Now for the down side: whether it's prison records or hospital
records, they'll very likely still be closed. If there was a crime
committed, then you might find a report in the local paper but you'd
have to know which one as the case might not have been reported in The
Times. If it was medical, you'd have to know the hospital concerned
but it's unlikely that you'd be allowed to see or obtain a copy of his
records because of the closure and the fact that it is so recent.
--
http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/

Hugh Watkins

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 20 mai 2007 17:15:50

Charani wrote:

On Sat, 19 May 2007 12:23:01 +0100, Jaxtraw wrote:


The suspicion comes from a period we've heard about, early in the 1950s,
where he was purportedly in hospital and so ill that nobody but his wife
(i.e. my grandmother) was allowed to visit him, including his daughters
(i.e. my now dead mother and aunt). Apparently my grandmother visited him at
the same time every day and then of a sudden he was discharged as fit as he
went in. It's never really rung true; even if there were a time when he was
in intensive care or whatnot it's difficult to believe that right up to the
day he was discharged he was too ill to be seen by his own daughters. My
father has always suspected he went to prison.


As Cheryl says, soc.genealogy.britain is the better group *but* I
would say that it is probably true that your grandfather *was* in
hospital and if it was an isolation hospital then that would restrict
who could or could not see him. All hospitals had and still have set
visiting hours which would account for why your grandmother visited at
a specific time. Another thing to bear in mind is that in the 1950s
children weren't normally allowed to visit anyway. If he was in an
isolation hospital, then he wouldn't have been allowed out until he
was fully fit. He would also have been admitted as soon as he was
ill, so it would not necessarily have been apparent that he was
seriously ill.

My sister was admitted to an isolation hospital. Only my parents were
allowed to visit her and only at a specified time. She didn't appear
to be unwell to me and when she came out she was as fit as a fiddle.

Now for the down side: whether it's prison records or hospital
records, they'll very likely still be closed. If there was a crime
committed, then you might find a report in the local paper but you'd
have to know which one as the case might not have been reported in The
Times. If it was medical, you'd have to know the hospital concerned
but it's unlikely that you'd be allowed to see or obtain a copy of his
records because of the closure and the fact that it is so recent.

UK hospital records are still owned by the National Health Service even
when deposited at the local County Record Office

The RO will tell you what forms to fill in for access and whom may get
access

Hugh W
--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

singhals

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av singhals » 20 mai 2007 17:39:30

Charani wrote:


a specific time. Another thing to bear in mind is that in the 1950s
children weren't normally allowed to visit anyway. If he was in an

True, and I had forgotten that! Even as late as 1959, you
had to be 14 to be allowed visiting status in my local
hospitals -- for that matter, you had to be 14 to be a
volunteer who distributed mail, fluffed pillows, moved
magazines, and the like.

Cheryl

cecilia

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av cecilia » 20 mai 2007 19:04:06

On 19 May, 16:44, singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:
[...]
The stated facts do fit some
illnesses in the early 1950s
[...] where visitors
WOULD be limited to prevent their infection
[...] in the early 1950s, few
people thought anyone under 16
needed to know much of
anything about what was going on.


I remember being told in the early 1950s that parents were not allowed
to visit children in hospital for minor surgery etc unless the child
was in for a fortnight or more. Certainly I and my siblings in
hospital for a week when we had our tonsils out, and could not be
visited - my mother sent us in pairs (my brother and I were 2 and 4)
so that we at least had a familiar face. My husband was in for a
week, aged 5, with only daily postcards (he could read) for comfort
from home - his mother said they looked as though he had held them the
whole time.

A friend was admitted to hospital in 1972 for 6 weeks before having
twins. Her husband brought their 18 month daughter at visiting time
the first afternoon, and was told children (of any age) could only
visit on Sundays, ie the child could only see her mother for half an
hour a week. The mother said she was not prepared to stay if that was
the case, so they moved her to a side-room, and the child was brought
each afternoon. (A few weeks after the twins were born, the mother
started a campaign through the local press and got the situation
changed in that hospital at least.)

jj206

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av jj206 » 21 mai 2007 20:57:14

singhals wrote:
Charani wrote:


a specific time. Another thing to bear in mind is that in the 1950s
children weren't normally allowed to visit anyway. If he was in an

True, and I had forgotten that! Even as late as 1959, you had to be 14
to be allowed visiting status in my local hospitals -- for that matter,
you had to be 14 to be a volunteer who distributed mail, fluffed
pillows, moved magazines, and the like.

Cheryl

And still today as well, depending on the illness.
I was visiting a hospital in Olympia WA, USA two
years ago and there was a big yellow note on the
door that no kids under 8 allowed. I asked the nurse
and she said, "Kids under 8 can have germs or virus
that can harm this patient when their immune system
is down." I'm sure some hospital have slightly
different rules.

Jonathan

jj206

Re: OT? UK criminal records

Legg inn av jj206 » 21 mai 2007 21:17:31

singhals wrote:
Charani wrote:


a specific time. Another thing to bear in mind is that in the 1950s
children weren't normally allowed to visit anyway. If he was in an

True, and I had forgotten that! Even as late as 1959, you had to be 14
to be allowed visiting status in my local hospitals -- for that matter,
you had to be 14 to be a volunteer who distributed mail, fluffed
pillows, moved magazines, and the like.

Cheryl

And still today as well, depending on the illness.
I was visiting a hospital in Olympia WA, USA two
years ago and there was a big yellow note on the
door that no kids under 6 allowed. I asked the nurse
and she said, "Kids under 6 can have germs or virus
that can harm this patient when their immune system
is down."

Jonathan

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