Please help solve a mystery in my family
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
ToadysFroggy
Please help solve a mystery in my family
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
-
Sherlock Holmes
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
Things to check and what questions need to be answered.
News Papers
Cemetery records
Probate Wills
Death Records
Do the local News Papers of the day have a Death Notice for him, this
could give you some of the children.
Check the cemetery that he was buried in as other family members may be
buried there as well.
Who paid for the head stone and the plot in which he was buried?
Is there a probate will for him or his wife?
What information is given on the Death certificate and who was the
informant?
All the above can get you to the next generation, do not forget the
census as this may help as well.
David
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Hi Sharon,
Things to check and what questions need to be answered.
News Papers
Cemetery records
Probate Wills
Death Records
Do the local News Papers of the day have a Death Notice for him, this
could give you some of the children.
Check the cemetery that he was buried in as other family members may be
buried there as well.
Who paid for the head stone and the plot in which he was buried?
Is there a probate will for him or his wife?
What information is given on the Death certificate and who was the
informant?
All the above can get you to the next generation, do not forget the
census as this may help as well.
David
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 22, 1:26 am, Sherlock Holmes <hawke_eye_da...@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
David,
I have very little information on both Samuel Bear and my Great
Grandfather Samuel (Shmuel Buchalter)...I know Sam Bear left
Philadelphia and later settled in California. I posted what
information I do have. If my own grandfather, only living son of
Shmuel, were not in the throes of Alzheimer's, I would have been able
to ask him. I will ask my grandmother what she knows but if I had
more of the answers, I would probably not needed to post, right?
wrote:
ToadysFroggy wrote:
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Hi Sharon,
Things to check and what questions need to be answered.
News Papers
Cemetery records
Probate Wills
Death Records
Do the local News Papers of the day have a Death Notice for him, this
could give you some of the children.
Check the cemetery that he was buried in as other family members may be
buried there as well.
Who paid for the head stone and the plot in which he was buried?
Is there a probate will for him or his wife?
What information is given on the Death certificate and who was the
informant?
All the above can get you to the next generation, do not forget the
census as this may help as well.
David
David,
I have very little information on both Samuel Bear and my Great
Grandfather Samuel (Shmuel Buchalter)...I know Sam Bear left
Philadelphia and later settled in California. I posted what
information I do have. If my own grandfather, only living son of
Shmuel, were not in the throes of Alzheimer's, I would have been able
to ask him. I will ask my grandmother what she knows but if I had
more of the answers, I would probably not needed to post, right?
-
Alida Spry
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
"ToadysFroggy" <54amp5@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Sharon,
The immigration officers did not misunderstand the immigrants' names when
they arrived in the US. That is a common misconception. The immigrant
would have had to have emmigration papers with his name from the country of
origin which we can assume should have been spelled correctly. The
immigration officers here in the US had translators available for every
conceivable language so I don't think that is the reason for the difference
in the name.
Here are two websites that explains this:
http://www.genealogy.com/88_donna.html
http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_isl ... change.htm
In the meantime, I can try to do a search on ancestry and see what shows up.
I hope that helps.
Alida
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
The immigration officers did not misunderstand the immigrants' names when
they arrived in the US. That is a common misconception. The immigrant
would have had to have emmigration papers with his name from the country of
origin which we can assume should have been spelled correctly. The
immigration officers here in the US had translators available for every
conceivable language so I don't think that is the reason for the difference
in the name.
Here are two websites that explains this:
http://www.genealogy.com/88_donna.html
http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_isl ... change.htm
In the meantime, I can try to do a search on ancestry and see what shows up.
I hope that helps.
Alida
-
ecunningham
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
Sharon: The CA death index will show you Sam's SS# and you can
request his
SS application for a fee which should give you his place of birth and
parents' names.
Also there is a Max Buchalter in Detroit in the WWI draft
registrations with the same birth date.
So the bottom line is, start with what you know and work backwards
gathering info as you go. Read some tutorials so you know your options
or join a local genealogy society.
ecunningham@att.net
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United> States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have> misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel> BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora> and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information> on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his> branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
Sharon: The CA death index will show you Sam's SS# and you can
request his
SS application for a fee which should give you his place of birth and
parents' names.
Also there is a Max Buchalter in Detroit in the WWI draft
registrations with the same birth date.
So the bottom line is, start with what you know and work backwards
gathering info as you go. Read some tutorials so you know your options
or join a local genealogy society.
ecunningham@att.net
-
Alida Spry
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
"ToadysFroggy" <54amp5@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
-
Alida Spry
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
"ToadysFroggy" <54amp5@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Alida,
I have the census record with my grandfather, his brother and his
parents...but as I said, I do not have anything on my great
grandfather's brother. If the truth be told, no one is quite sure
what the last name really was, if it was Buchalter or Bear, when they
lived in Europe...but right now, I am just trying to find out what I
can.
I am moving next week, in fact the closing on the house is today, and
will be living a block from my grandmother. Maybe she will be able to
fill in some of the missing information for me...as I have said, my
grandfather is in the throes of horrible Alzheimer's so he would be of
no help!
Thanks for your help!!
Sharon
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
Alida,
I have the census record with my grandfather, his brother and his
parents...but as I said, I do not have anything on my great
grandfather's brother. If the truth be told, no one is quite sure
what the last name really was, if it was Buchalter or Bear, when they
lived in Europe...but right now, I am just trying to find out what I
can.
I am moving next week, in fact the closing on the house is today, and
will be living a block from my grandmother. Maybe she will be able to
fill in some of the missing information for me...as I have said, my
grandfather is in the throes of horrible Alzheimer's so he would be of
no help!
Thanks for your help!!
Sharon
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
PS I checked Max Buchalter's draft registration card and the reason I
doubt it is right is because one the relative says Gussie and Sam's
wife's name was Rose and it said he was from Austria when Sam was from
Russia...
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
PS I checked Max Buchalter's draft registration card and the reason I
doubt it is right is because one the relative says Gussie and Sam's
wife's name was Rose and it said he was from Austria when Sam was from
Russia...
-
singhals
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
Bear in German is Baer.
It is not at all unusual for someone to have a real name and
a name they're going by -- f'instance, I'm assuming Toady
isn't the name on your birth certificate?
Moreover, German families tend to give the same first name
to all their sons -- generally it's Johan, but I suppose
Samuel could work -- and USE the middle name; this comes out
in records as Samuel Philip, Samuel George, Samuel John.
However ... Are these people Jewish? If so, you'll need
specialized help from JewishGen because some of these
immigrants have and interchangeably use 3 sets of names: one
for every-day use outside the group, one for use within the
group, and a religious name. The name Max is (or so I'm
told) one of the most popular every-day outside names for
Jewish men and is _probably_ connected with the in-group
name Moise.
One more point -- Buckwalter is a variant of Buchalter, so
you might want to look at those too. If the American
writing the record knew a Buckwalter, that's probably what
he wrote down.
Cheryl
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
PS I checked Max Buchalter's draft registration card and the reason I
doubt it is right is because one the relative says Gussie and Sam's
wife's name was Rose and it said he was from Austria when Sam was from
Russia...
Bear in German is Baer.
It is not at all unusual for someone to have a real name and
a name they're going by -- f'instance, I'm assuming Toady
isn't the name on your birth certificate?
Moreover, German families tend to give the same first name
to all their sons -- generally it's Johan, but I suppose
Samuel could work -- and USE the middle name; this comes out
in records as Samuel Philip, Samuel George, Samuel John.
However ... Are these people Jewish? If so, you'll need
specialized help from JewishGen because some of these
immigrants have and interchangeably use 3 sets of names: one
for every-day use outside the group, one for use within the
group, and a religious name. The name Max is (or so I'm
told) one of the most popular every-day outside names for
Jewish men and is _probably_ connected with the in-group
name Moise.
One more point -- Buckwalter is a variant of Buchalter, so
you might want to look at those too. If the American
writing the record knew a Buckwalter, that's probably what
he wrote down.
Cheryl
-
Sherlock Holmes
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
With a fairly uncommon surname I would be tempted to treat it like one
would when researching a One Name Study, in short record all those with
the surname as there may be a link that relations have botched up or
they are mistaken in what they say, the facts will either confirm the
story or correct it.
David
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
PS I checked Max Buchalter's draft registration card and the reason I
doubt it is right is because one the relative says Gussie and Sam's
wife's name was Rose and it said he was from Austria when Sam was from
Russia...
Hi,
With a fairly uncommon surname I would be tempted to treat it like one
would when researching a One Name Study, in short record all those with
the surname as there may be a link that relations have botched up or
they are mistaken in what they say, the facts will either confirm the
story or correct it.
David
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
Not that this helps with finding the brother, but I did see on your
great-grandfather's immigration record that he was headed for the home
of his uncle, Chem Bloden or Bladen, and that he lived in Philadelphia.
I tried to find Chem in the 1910 census, but so far haven't had any
luck with that.
Cathy
great-grandfather's immigration record that he was headed for the home
of his uncle, Chem Bloden or Bladen, and that he lived in Philadelphia.
I tried to find Chem in the 1910 census, but so far haven't had any
luck with that.
Cathy
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 24, 1:58 am, Huntersglenn <huntersgl...@cox.net> wrote:
Cathy,
The name is Chaim Bloden...thanks for looking!
Not that this helps with finding the brother, but I did see on your
great-grandfather's immigration record that he was headed for the home
of his uncle, Chem Bloden or Bladen, and that he lived in Philadelphia.
I tried to find Chem in the 1910 census, but so far haven't had any
luck with that.
Cathy
Cathy,
The name is Chaim Bloden...thanks for looking!
-
Tony H.
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
Just in case you have not already seen this, your gr-grandfather
Buchalter, wife Dora, and son Joseph are listed in the 1910
Philadelphia, PA census under the name BOOKOLDER.
When you say that they immigrated from Russia, do you mean Russia itself
or one of the countries occupied by Russia, i.e. Lithuania, Latvia,
Poland, etc?
How strong is your belief/confirmation that the Samuel Bear with DOB of
Sept 25, 1884 and DOD of March 21, 1961 in Los Angeles is your
gr-grandfather's brother? This Sam's wife from 1910 in Philadelphia
through probably her DOD of June 25, 1943 was named IDA. Perhaps Sam
married Rose before or after Ida or perhaps Ida was known in the family
as Rose.
Ancestry Historical Newspapers, Birth, Death, Marriage Announcements):
LA Times, March 26, 1961: Samuel Bear services today at Hollywood
Cemetery Chapel, Groman Monutary, directors. ***Hollywood Cemetery
is now known as Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
LA Times, June 28, 1943: Ida Bear services today at Groman Mortuary.
Ancestry, California Death Records:
Ida Bear, DOB 1 May 1889, DOD 25 Jun 1943, place of death: Fresno,
Father's surname: Sax
From http://www.findagrave.com Samuel Bear (DOD 3-21-61) and Ida Bear (DOD
6-25-43) are buried Row T, Section 16 of Beth Olam Cemetery, Los
Angeles. ***Beth Olam Cemetery is a Jewish Cemetery contained within
Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
1910 Philadelphia Ward 3 census, Samuel BEAR, 24, Russia/Pol, Jewish,
immigrated 1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 23, Russia/Pol, immigrated
1902; daughter Bessie, 1, b Pennsylvania. Samuel and Ida had been
married 3 years.
1920 Philadelphia census, Samuel BAER, 36, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated
1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 31, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated 1903;
daughter Bessie 11; son Albert, 9; son Robert 10/12.
No luck yet finding any of above in 1930.
One last thought about the difference in the brothers Samuel surnames.
My better half's gr-grandfather immigrated to the US from Germany as
family lore said "with his brother Jacob" c. 1855. Many years and gray
hairs later, we found out they were half-brothers, that neither one had
changed their name, and that we had searched for a looonnngg time for
the wrong name.
Any chance your Samuels were half brothers?
---Tony
ToadysFroggy wrote:
Buchalter, wife Dora, and son Joseph are listed in the 1910
Philadelphia, PA census under the name BOOKOLDER.
When you say that they immigrated from Russia, do you mean Russia itself
or one of the countries occupied by Russia, i.e. Lithuania, Latvia,
Poland, etc?
How strong is your belief/confirmation that the Samuel Bear with DOB of
Sept 25, 1884 and DOD of March 21, 1961 in Los Angeles is your
gr-grandfather's brother? This Sam's wife from 1910 in Philadelphia
through probably her DOD of June 25, 1943 was named IDA. Perhaps Sam
married Rose before or after Ida or perhaps Ida was known in the family
as Rose.
Ancestry Historical Newspapers, Birth, Death, Marriage Announcements):
LA Times, March 26, 1961: Samuel Bear services today at Hollywood
Cemetery Chapel, Groman Monutary, directors. ***Hollywood Cemetery
is now known as Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
LA Times, June 28, 1943: Ida Bear services today at Groman Mortuary.
Ancestry, California Death Records:
Ida Bear, DOB 1 May 1889, DOD 25 Jun 1943, place of death: Fresno,
Father's surname: Sax
From http://www.findagrave.com Samuel Bear (DOD 3-21-61) and Ida Bear (DOD
6-25-43) are buried Row T, Section 16 of Beth Olam Cemetery, Los
Angeles. ***Beth Olam Cemetery is a Jewish Cemetery contained within
Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
1910 Philadelphia Ward 3 census, Samuel BEAR, 24, Russia/Pol, Jewish,
immigrated 1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 23, Russia/Pol, immigrated
1902; daughter Bessie, 1, b Pennsylvania. Samuel and Ida had been
married 3 years.
1920 Philadelphia census, Samuel BAER, 36, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated
1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 31, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated 1903;
daughter Bessie 11; son Albert, 9; son Robert 10/12.
No luck yet finding any of above in 1930.
One last thought about the difference in the brothers Samuel surnames.
My better half's gr-grandfather immigrated to the US from Germany as
family lore said "with his brother Jacob" c. 1855. Many years and gray
hairs later, we found out they were half-brothers, that neither one had
changed their name, and that we had searched for a looonnngg time for
the wrong name.
Any chance your Samuels were half brothers?
---Tony
ToadysFroggy wrote:
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
Alida,
I have the census record with my grandfather, his brother and his
parents...but as I said, I do not have anything on my great
grandfather's brother. If the truth be told, no one is quite sure
what the last name really was, if it was Buchalter or Bear, when they
lived in Europe...but right now, I am just trying to find out what I
can.
I am moving next week, in fact the closing on the house is today, and
will be living a block from my grandmother. Maybe she will be able to
fill in some of the missing information for me...as I have said, my
grandfather is in the throes of horrible Alzheimer's so he would be of
no help!
Thanks for your help!!
Sharon
-
Tony H.
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
Adding to what I posted earlier, I found Samuel and Ida Bear (indexed on
Ancestry as BENE) on the 1930 census in Gardena, Los Angeles County, CA.
Samuel Bene, 44, b. Russia, immigrated 1905, first married at age 21,
occupation baker; wife Ida, 42, b. Russia, immigrated 1901, first
married at age 19; son Albert, 19, b. Pennsylvania; son Robert, 11, b.
Pennsylvania. Also in the household are two boarders: Lorraine Sara,
age 6, and Albert Sara, age 5, both b. California, father b. Russia,
mother b. NY.
--Tony
Tony H. wrote:
Ancestry as BENE) on the 1930 census in Gardena, Los Angeles County, CA.
Samuel Bene, 44, b. Russia, immigrated 1905, first married at age 21,
occupation baker; wife Ida, 42, b. Russia, immigrated 1901, first
married at age 19; son Albert, 19, b. Pennsylvania; son Robert, 11, b.
Pennsylvania. Also in the household are two boarders: Lorraine Sara,
age 6, and Albert Sara, age 5, both b. California, father b. Russia,
mother b. NY.
--Tony
Tony H. wrote:
Just in case you have not already seen this, your gr-grandfather
Buchalter, wife Dora, and son Joseph are listed in the 1910
Philadelphia, PA census under the name BOOKOLDER.
When you say that they immigrated from Russia, do you mean Russia itself
or one of the countries occupied by Russia, i.e. Lithuania, Latvia,
Poland, etc?
How strong is your belief/confirmation that the Samuel Bear with DOB of
Sept 25, 1884 and DOD of March 21, 1961 in Los Angeles is your
gr-grandfather's brother? This Sam's wife from 1910 in Philadelphia
through probably her DOD of June 25, 1943 was named IDA. Perhaps Sam
married Rose before or after Ida or perhaps Ida was known in the family
as Rose.
Ancestry Historical Newspapers, Birth, Death, Marriage Announcements):
LA Times, March 26, 1961: Samuel Bear services today at Hollywood
Cemetery Chapel, Groman Monutary, directors. ***Hollywood Cemetery
is now known as Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
LA Times, June 28, 1943: Ida Bear services today at Groman Mortuary.
Ancestry, California Death Records:
Ida Bear, DOB 1 May 1889, DOD 25 Jun 1943, place of death: Fresno,
Father's surname: Sax
From http://www.findagrave.com Samuel Bear (DOD 3-21-61) and Ida Bear (DOD
6-25-43) are buried Row T, Section 16 of Beth Olam Cemetery, Los
Angeles. ***Beth Olam Cemetery is a Jewish Cemetery contained within
Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
1910 Philadelphia Ward 3 census, Samuel BEAR, 24, Russia/Pol, Jewish,
immigrated 1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 23, Russia/Pol, immigrated
1902; daughter Bessie, 1, b Pennsylvania. Samuel and Ida had been
married 3 years.
1920 Philadelphia census, Samuel BAER, 36, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated
1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 31, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated 1903;
daughter Bessie 11; son Albert, 9; son Robert 10/12.
No luck yet finding any of above in 1930.
One last thought about the difference in the brothers Samuel surnames.
My better half's gr-grandfather immigrated to the US from Germany as
family lore said "with his brother Jacob" c. 1855. Many years and gray
hairs later, we found out they were half-brothers, that neither one had
changed their name, and that we had searched for a looonnngg time for
the wrong name.
Any chance your Samuels were half brothers?
---Tony
ToadysFroggy wrote:
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the
name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about
Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have
this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last
name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other
Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the
info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get
it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of
birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
Alida,
I have the census record with my grandfather, his brother and his
parents...but as I said, I do not have anything on my great
grandfather's brother. If the truth be told, no one is quite sure
what the last name really was, if it was Buchalter or Bear, when they
lived in Europe...but right now, I am just trying to find out what I
can.
I am moving next week, in fact the closing on the house is today, and
will be living a block from my grandmother. Maybe she will be able to
fill in some of the missing information for me...as I have said, my
grandfather is in the throes of horrible Alzheimer's so he would be of
no help!
Thanks for your help!!
Sharon
-
jj206
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
Hi ToadyFroggy,
I used to work with the elderly handicapped. If anyone ever came to see
someone who had Alzheimer's, then we would try a few things to get them
to remember and talk about the past.
1. We would give the person a flashlight that was taken apart.
Sometimes putting something back together was a great way to stimulate
their mind and then they sometimes would start talking about their
childhood or other relatives.
2. If we knew someone was coming in to see them, we often would organize
a field trip. For some reason taking a group to the zoo would stimulate
the most stories from the Alzheimer's people. One guy who did not speak
hardly ever, actually did speak a full sentence while at the zoo.
3, We often played games where we would pass a card around and the card
had different childhood or high school memories on them. Each person
could talk for two minutes after getting the card. We placed the
Alzheimer's people at the end of the table so they would go last. If
they went first, the talked less then if they went latter. If you take
a tape recorder or digital video with you when you go to your relatives
home, then you can collect some family tree video snippets. (^:
take care,
Jonathan
I posted what
information I do have. If my own grandfather, only living son of
Shmuel, were not in the throes of Alzheimer's, I would have been able
to ask him.
Hi ToadyFroggy,
I used to work with the elderly handicapped. If anyone ever came to see
someone who had Alzheimer's, then we would try a few things to get them
to remember and talk about the past.
1. We would give the person a flashlight that was taken apart.
Sometimes putting something back together was a great way to stimulate
their mind and then they sometimes would start talking about their
childhood or other relatives.
2. If we knew someone was coming in to see them, we often would organize
a field trip. For some reason taking a group to the zoo would stimulate
the most stories from the Alzheimer's people. One guy who did not speak
hardly ever, actually did speak a full sentence while at the zoo.
3, We often played games where we would pass a card around and the card
had different childhood or high school memories on them. Each person
could talk for two minutes after getting the card. We placed the
Alzheimer's people at the end of the table so they would go last. If
they went first, the talked less then if they went latter. If you take
a tape recorder or digital video with you when you go to your relatives
home, then you can collect some family tree video snippets. (^:
take care,
Jonathan
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 26, 3:03 pm, jj206 <j...@remoooooooooooovethisdrizzle.com>
wrote:
Jonathan,
Thanks for the ideas but my grandfather is so bad off with it, that he
barely ever talks...and when it does, it is usually something one
would not want to hear...
Sharon
wrote:
ToadysFroggy wrote:
I posted what
information I do have. If my own grandfather, only living son of
Shmuel, were not in the throes of Alzheimer's, I would have been able
to ask him.
Hi ToadyFroggy,
I used to work with the elderly handicapped. If anyone ever came to see
someone who had Alzheimer's, then we would try a few things to get them
to remember and talk about the past.
1. We would give the person a flashlight that was taken apart.
Sometimes putting something back together was a great way to stimulate
their mind and then they sometimes would start talking about their
childhood or other relatives.
2. If we knew someone was coming in to see them, we often would organize
a field trip. For some reason taking a group to the zoo would stimulate
the most stories from the Alzheimer's people. One guy who did not speak
hardly ever, actually did speak a full sentence while at the zoo.
3, We often played games where we would pass a card around and the card
had different childhood or high school memories on them. Each person
could talk for two minutes after getting the card. We placed the
Alzheimer's people at the end of the table so they would go last. If
they went first, the talked less then if they went latter. If you take
a tape recorder or digital video with you when you go to your relatives
home, then you can collect some family tree video snippets. (^:
take care,
Jonathan
Jonathan,
Thanks for the ideas but my grandfather is so bad off with it, that he
barely ever talks...and when it does, it is usually something one
would not want to hear...
Sharon
-
Gjest
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
Cheryl wrote: If so, you'll need
Mary responds:
This is so true! My best friend is from an orthodox family, and after
her mother died a year ago, I started helping her brother do a family
tree (their mother was one of those people who knew how everyone was
related and glued everyone together, and her loss made them realize
how little they all knew). So we took it on as a project to honour her
memory and its been an adventure.
As a non-Jew, with mostly UK roots, I found European geography with
its endlessly shifting borders daunting (okay, so this spot was part
of Poland then part of Austria then part of....AAAAAAIIEEEE!!!) , but
the names!!! Argh!! Place names as well as personal names. One branch
of her family were Polish and perished in the Holocaust, and tracking
people through various sources is extremely complex because for all
the names you encounter (for example) the Polish version, the German
version, the English version, the Hebrew version, the Yiddish
version...and then we have the nicknames, and...what the names were
changed following emigration.
So Nesha is the same person as Gnana, and Freidel is Fradja and Koona
is Komras is Konrad and the same guy was also Elkana. And we have
Ruchla/Ruchia/Rakael/Rachel with the surname Waxman/Vaksman. And
Sheindel is Szajndla. Never mind what the names of prewar emigrants
turned into when they emigrated and Nissam became Nathan and Zlotnikov
became Weinberg.
Its a whole new level of complications to trace. I also found I really
had to ask a lot of questions because family members from arms of the
family who had been here many generations where they either didn't
know or were reluctant to disclose the original surnames (where White
had come from Bartofsky).
M.
specialized help from JewishGen because some of these
immigrants have and interchangeably use 3 sets of names: one
for every-day use outside the group, one for use within the
group, and a religious name.
Mary responds:
This is so true! My best friend is from an orthodox family, and after
her mother died a year ago, I started helping her brother do a family
tree (their mother was one of those people who knew how everyone was
related and glued everyone together, and her loss made them realize
how little they all knew). So we took it on as a project to honour her
memory and its been an adventure.
As a non-Jew, with mostly UK roots, I found European geography with
its endlessly shifting borders daunting (okay, so this spot was part
of Poland then part of Austria then part of....AAAAAAIIEEEE!!!) , but
the names!!! Argh!! Place names as well as personal names. One branch
of her family were Polish and perished in the Holocaust, and tracking
people through various sources is extremely complex because for all
the names you encounter (for example) the Polish version, the German
version, the English version, the Hebrew version, the Yiddish
version...and then we have the nicknames, and...what the names were
changed following emigration.
So Nesha is the same person as Gnana, and Freidel is Fradja and Koona
is Komras is Konrad and the same guy was also Elkana. And we have
Ruchla/Ruchia/Rakael/Rachel with the surname Waxman/Vaksman. And
Sheindel is Szajndla. Never mind what the names of prewar emigrants
turned into when they emigrated and Nissam became Nathan and Zlotnikov
became Weinberg.
Its a whole new level of complications to trace. I also found I really
had to ask a lot of questions because family members from arms of the
family who had been here many generations where they either didn't
know or were reluctant to disclose the original surnames (where White
had come from Bartofsky).
M.
-
Hugh Watkins
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org wrote:
but some jewish cemeteries are great
memorial inscriptions in hebrew on one side and in german / yiddish ? on
the other side of the stone giving two naming traditions and lost of data
Hugh W
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
Cheryl wrote: If so, you'll need
specialized help from JewishGen because some of these
immigrants have and interchangeably use 3 sets of names: one
for every-day use outside the group, one for use within the
group, and a religious name.
Mary responds:
This is so true! My best friend is from an orthodox family, and after
her mother died a year ago, I started helping her brother do a family
tree (their mother was one of those people who knew how everyone was
related and glued everyone together, and her loss made them realize
how little they all knew). So we took it on as a project to honour her
memory and its been an adventure.
As a non-Jew, with mostly UK roots, I found European geography with
its endlessly shifting borders daunting (okay, so this spot was part
of Poland then part of Austria then part of....AAAAAAIIEEEE!!!) , but
the names!!! Argh!! Place names as well as personal names. One branch
of her family were Polish and perished in the Holocaust, and tracking
people through various sources is extremely complex because for all
the names you encounter (for example) the Polish version, the German
version, the English version, the Hebrew version, the Yiddish
version...and then we have the nicknames, and...what the names were
changed following emigration.
So Nesha is the same person as Gnana, and Freidel is Fradja and Koona
is Komras is Konrad and the same guy was also Elkana. And we have
Ruchla/Ruchia/Rakael/Rachel with the surname Waxman/Vaksman. And
Sheindel is Szajndla. Never mind what the names of prewar emigrants
turned into when they emigrated and Nissam became Nathan and Zlotnikov
became Weinberg.
Its a whole new level of complications to trace. I also found I really
had to ask a lot of questions because family members from arms of the
family who had been here many generations where they either didn't
know or were reluctant to disclose the original surnames (where White
had come from Bartofsky).
but some jewish cemeteries are great
memorial inscriptions in hebrew on one side and in german / yiddish ? on
the other side of the stone giving two naming traditions and lost of data
Hugh W
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Mar 25, 8:32 pm, "Tony H." <punkyNOS...@insightbb.com> wrote:
I do not think that his wife's real name was Ida...I checked with my
mother about the stuff I found on Rose on ancestry.com and she said
that the dates of the stuff I found seem to be about right...I will be
seeing my grandmother on Monday and Tuesday for Passover; I will ask
her then
Adding to what I posted earlier, I found Samuel and Ida Bear (indexed on
Ancestry as BENE) on the 1930 census in Gardena, Los Angeles County, CA.
Samuel Bene, 44, b. Russia, immigrated 1905, first married at age 21,
occupation baker; wife Ida, 42, b. Russia, immigrated 1901, first
married at age 19; son Albert, 19, b. Pennsylvania; son Robert, 11, b.
Pennsylvania. Also in the household are two boarders: Lorraine Sara,
age 6, and Albert Sara, age 5, both b. California, father b. Russia,
mother b. NY.
--Tony
Tony H. wrote:
Just in case you have not already seen this, your gr-grandfather
Buchalter, wife Dora, and son Joseph are listed in the 1910
Philadelphia, PA census under the name BOOKOLDER.
When you say that they immigrated from Russia, do you mean Russia itself
or one of the countries occupied by Russia, i.e. Lithuania, Latvia,
Poland, etc?
How strong is your belief/confirmation that the Samuel Bear with DOB of
Sept 25, 1884 and DOD of March 21, 1961 in Los Angeles is your
gr-grandfather's brother? This Sam's wife from 1910 in Philadelphia
through probably her DOD of June 25, 1943 was named IDA. Perhaps Sam
married Rose before or after Ida or perhaps Ida was known in the family
as Rose.
Ancestry Historical Newspapers, Birth, Death, Marriage Announcements):
LA Times, March 26, 1961: Samuel Bear services today at Hollywood
Cemetery Chapel, Groman Monutary, directors. ***Hollywood Cemetery
is now known as Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
LA Times, June 28, 1943: Ida Bear services today at Groman Mortuary.
Ancestry, California Death Records:
Ida Bear, DOB 1 May 1889, DOD 25 Jun 1943, place of death: Fresno,
Father's surname: Sax
Fromwww.findagrave.comSamuel Bear (DOD 3-21-61) and Ida Bear (DOD
6-25-43) are buried Row T, Section 16 of Beth Olam Cemetery, Los
Angeles. ***Beth Olam Cemetery is a Jewish Cemetery contained within
Hollywood Forever Cemetery***
1910 Philadelphia Ward 3 census, Samuel BEAR, 24, Russia/Pol, Jewish,
immigrated 1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 23, Russia/Pol, immigrated
1902; daughter Bessie, 1, b Pennsylvania. Samuel and Ida had been
married 3 years.
1920 Philadelphia census, Samuel BAER, 36, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated
1906, occupation Baker; wife Ida, 31, Russia/Yiddish, immigrated 1903;
daughter Bessie 11; son Albert, 9; son Robert 10/12.
No luck yet finding any of above in 1930.
One last thought about the difference in the brothers Samuel surnames.
My better half's gr-grandfather immigrated to the US from Germany as
family lore said "with his brother Jacob" c. 1855. Many years and gray
hairs later, we found out they were half-brothers, that neither one had
changed their name, and that we had searched for a looonnngg time for
the wrong name.
Any chance your Samuels were half brothers?
---Tony
ToadysFroggy wrote:
On Mar 22, 9:30 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174605321.799950.37660@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 2:58 pm, "Alida Spry" <a_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"ToadysFroggy" <54a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174539023.946340.221990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My great grandfather Shmuel BUCHALTER had a brother who also came to
the United
States but somehow during his entering of the US, the immigration
officer must have
misunderstood him when he tried to say BUCHALTER and gave him the
name
of Samuel
BEAR. Both settled in the Philadelphia area. My great grandfather
married Dora
and had my grandfather and my great uncle Joseph. I would like to
find information
on my great grandfather's family as well as anything more about
Samuel
Bear and his
branch of my family.
The only things I know about Samuel Bear:
- is he married a Polish woman named Rose and they moved from the
Philadelphia area
to Los Angeles.
- he was born Sep 25, 1884
- he died Mar 21, 1961
If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanking you in advanced!!
Sharon F. Yampell
NJ
BUCHALTER/ BEAR
Sharon,
After reading your post again, I'm confused. Let me see if I have
this
right.
(according to the 1920 census in Philadelphia)
Your grandfather is Benjamin and his brother is Joseph
Your great grandparents were Samuel and Dora Buchalter
Your great grandfather's brother was also named Samuel but his last
name
was
changed to Bear? (he's the one who married Rose and went to LA)
Is that correct? They were both named Samuel? What am I missing?
Alida
Alida,
You got it all right! I was told by my mother that somehow my great
grandfather's brother also got the name of Samuel when he came to
this country and he did not have the last name of Buchalter... I will
see what I can find out...I am trying to find Sam and Rose's son, and
the rest of the family line from them...maybe then I can find more
information on my great great grandparents...
Ecunning, I am confused about what you meant about the Max
Buchalter....
OK, I'm not losing it (well my husband might not agree with that but
anyway...
I think that e meant you should check into that Max in the draft
registration because he has the same date of birth so maybe the other
Sam
was actually Max? It's just an idea.
What is the name of Sam and Rose's son? Did they have other children?
e is correct that the SS5 application would be helpful because the
info is
given by the person not someone else like with the info on the death
certificate. It costs $27 I think and takes about 6 - 8 weeks to get
it.
It should have his parents' names (if he knew them) and his place of
birth
but sometimes it just has a country not a specific town listed.
Do you have the census image that shows your great grandparents and your
grandfather? I can send you that if you like.
I'll do some more checking.
Alida
Alida,
I have the census record with my grandfather, his brother and his
parents...but as I said, I do not have anything on my great
grandfather's brother. If the truth be told, no one is quite sure
what the last name really was, if it was Buchalter or Bear, when they
lived in Europe...but right now, I am just trying to find out what I
can.
I am moving next week, in fact the closing on the house is today, and
will be living a block from my grandmother. Maybe she will be able to
fill in some of the missing information for me...as I have said, my
grandfather is in the throes of horrible Alzheimer's so he would be of
no help!
Thanks for your help!!
Sharon
I do not think that his wife's real name was Ida...I checked with my
mother about the stuff I found on Rose on ancestry.com and she said
that the dates of the stuff I found seem to be about right...I will be
seeing my grandmother on Monday and Tuesday for Passover; I will ask
her then
-
Tony H.
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
ToadysFroggy wrote:
(snip)
IF you're speaking of the Rose Bear, DOB 18 June 1893 and DOD 20 Feb
1965, in the California Death Records, then you might also want to look
at Rose Izen in the California death records...same DOB and DOD. The
February 22, 1965 Los Angeles Times obit has her listed as ROSE IZEN
BEAR, mother of Samuel, Joseph and Manuel Izen, sister of Abraham Izen
(prob an error because in 1930 census he is her husband), buried at
Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery. BWT, Abraham Izen died in 1942, and
also death records for two of Rose Izen Bear's sons list their mother's
maiden name as Zolukofsky and Zolothosky.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any California marriage records to
determine if Rose Izen married SAMUEL Bear between 1943-1961.
Happy hunting,
Tony
(snip)
I do not think that his wife's real name was Ida...I checked with my
mother about the stuff I found on Rose on ancestry.com and she said
that the dates of the stuff I found seem to be about right...I will be
seeing my grandmother on Monday and Tuesday for Passover; I will ask
her then
IF you're speaking of the Rose Bear, DOB 18 June 1893 and DOD 20 Feb
1965, in the California Death Records, then you might also want to look
at Rose Izen in the California death records...same DOB and DOD. The
February 22, 1965 Los Angeles Times obit has her listed as ROSE IZEN
BEAR, mother of Samuel, Joseph and Manuel Izen, sister of Abraham Izen
(prob an error because in 1930 census he is her husband), buried at
Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery. BWT, Abraham Izen died in 1942, and
also death records for two of Rose Izen Bear's sons list their mother's
maiden name as Zolukofsky and Zolothosky.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any California marriage records to
determine if Rose Izen married SAMUEL Bear between 1943-1961.
Happy hunting,
Tony
-
ToadysFroggy
Re: Please help solve a mystery in my family
On Apr 1, 9:26 am, "Tony H." <punkyNOS...@insightbb.com> wrote:
Tony,
I found exactly what you found... and will again ask my grandmother
tomorrow during Passover!
Sharon
ToadysFroggy wrote:
(snip)
I do not think that his wife's real name was Ida...I checked with my
mother about the stuff I found on Rose on ancestry.com and she said
that the dates of the stuff I found seem to be about right...I will be
seeing my grandmother on Monday and Tuesday for Passover; I will ask
her then
IF you're speaking of the Rose Bear, DOB 18 June 1893 and DOD 20 Feb
1965, in the California Death Records, then you might also want to look
at Rose Izen in the California death records...same DOB and DOD. The
February 22, 1965 Los Angeles Times obit has her listed as ROSE IZEN
BEAR, mother of Samuel, Joseph and Manuel Izen, sister of Abraham Izen
(prob an error because in 1930 census he is her husband), buried at
Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery. BWT, Abraham Izen died in 1942, and
also death records for two of Rose Izen Bear's sons list their mother's
maiden name as Zolukofsky and Zolothosky.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any California marriage records to
determine if Rose Izen married SAMUEL Bear between 1943-1961.
Happy hunting,
Tony
Tony,
I found exactly what you found... and will again ask my grandmother
tomorrow during Passover!
Sharon