Brown in Colorado
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Graeme Wall
Brown in Colorado
I'm looking for decendants of William F Brown and his wife, Emily Agnes
(Kendall) William was born about 1843, in Maine. Emily was born 1846 in
Lambeth, Surrey, England. They married in Cambridge, Massachusetts on 29 Oct
1873. By the time of the 1880 Census they had moved to Denver, Colorado with
two daughters, Emma F born about 1875 in Massachusetts and Lillian F born
about 1878. The IGI index claims she was born in California but was probably
born in Colorado.
William was a watchmaker and jeweller.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
(Kendall) William was born about 1843, in Maine. Emily was born 1846 in
Lambeth, Surrey, England. They married in Cambridge, Massachusetts on 29 Oct
1873. By the time of the 1880 Census they had moved to Denver, Colorado with
two daughters, Emma F born about 1875 in Massachusetts and Lillian F born
about 1878. The IGI index claims she was born in California but was probably
born in Colorado.
William was a watchmaker and jeweller.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Brown in Colorado
By the 1900 Federal Census, the family was living in San Francisco,
California, and had another child:
Year: 1900; Census Place: San Francisco, San Francisco, California;
Roll: T623 105; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 187
Brown, William F., Head, Dec 1842, 57, married 20 years, born Maine,
parents born Maine, Jeweler
Emily A., wife, Jan 1840, 54 had 4 children, 3 still alive, born
England, parents born England, immigrated 1849, in U.S. for 51 years
Emma F., daughter, Oct 1874, 25, born Massachusetts, father born Maine,
mother born England, musician
Lillian F., daughter, Dec 1877, 22, born California, father born Maine,
mother born England, no occupation listed
William F., son, Dec 1880, 19, born Colordao, father born Maine, mother
born England, no occupation listed.
In the 1910 Federal Census, the family is found in Alameda, California:
Year: 1910; Census Place: Alameda Ward 5, Alameda, California; Roll:
T624_69; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 11
Brown, William F., 67, married 36 years, born Maine, parents born Maine,
watchmake in own shop
Emily A., wife, 64, had 4 children, 3 still alive, born Eng, parents
born Eng., no occupation listed, immigrated 1849
Lillian F., daughter, 32, single, born California, father born Maine,
mother born England, music teacher
William F., son, 29, single, born in Colorado, father born in Maine,
mother born in England, bookkeeper in a newspaper office
In the 1920 Federal Census, William and Emily are living alone, still in
Alameda:
Year: 1920;Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: T625_87;
Page: 1B; Enumeration District: 14;
Brown, William F., 77, born Maine, parents born Maine, watchmaker in a shop
Emily A., wife, 73, born England, parents born England, imm. 1850, no
occupation
In the 1930 Federal Census, both are alive and still in Alameda:
Year: 1930; Census Place: Oakland, Alameda, California; Roll: 106; Page:
10B; Enumeration District: 144
Brown, William F., 87, married first at age 30, born Maine, parents born
Maine, retired
Emily A., wife, 84, married first at age 27, born England, parents born
England, imm. 1849
Even though the 1910 census shows that Emma was still living, I haven't
yet found a record of her by her maiden name or a marriage record in
either Alameda or San Franciso counties. A lot of the marriage indexes
that I've found online so far stop in the early 1900s.
I suggest you search the Alameda, San Francisco and San Mateo county
GenWeb sites for more information. At some point in the early 1900s, it
was decided to remove almost all of the burials from San Francisco and
to ban more - the cemeteries were removed to San Mateo county (in the
town of Colma, for the most part). The California GenWeb site is:
http://cagenweb.com/
And from there you can select the counties that you need.
Maybe another researcher from alt.genealogy will have better luck in
tracking the children of William and Emily.
Cathy
Graeme Wall wrote:
California, and had another child:
Year: 1900; Census Place: San Francisco, San Francisco, California;
Roll: T623 105; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 187
Brown, William F., Head, Dec 1842, 57, married 20 years, born Maine,
parents born Maine, Jeweler
Emily A., wife, Jan 1840, 54 had 4 children, 3 still alive, born
England, parents born England, immigrated 1849, in U.S. for 51 years
Emma F., daughter, Oct 1874, 25, born Massachusetts, father born Maine,
mother born England, musician
Lillian F., daughter, Dec 1877, 22, born California, father born Maine,
mother born England, no occupation listed
William F., son, Dec 1880, 19, born Colordao, father born Maine, mother
born England, no occupation listed.
In the 1910 Federal Census, the family is found in Alameda, California:
Year: 1910; Census Place: Alameda Ward 5, Alameda, California; Roll:
T624_69; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 11
Brown, William F., 67, married 36 years, born Maine, parents born Maine,
watchmake in own shop
Emily A., wife, 64, had 4 children, 3 still alive, born Eng, parents
born Eng., no occupation listed, immigrated 1849
Lillian F., daughter, 32, single, born California, father born Maine,
mother born England, music teacher
William F., son, 29, single, born in Colorado, father born in Maine,
mother born in England, bookkeeper in a newspaper office
In the 1920 Federal Census, William and Emily are living alone, still in
Alameda:
Year: 1920;Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: T625_87;
Page: 1B; Enumeration District: 14;
Brown, William F., 77, born Maine, parents born Maine, watchmaker in a shop
Emily A., wife, 73, born England, parents born England, imm. 1850, no
occupation
In the 1930 Federal Census, both are alive and still in Alameda:
Year: 1930; Census Place: Oakland, Alameda, California; Roll: 106; Page:
10B; Enumeration District: 144
Brown, William F., 87, married first at age 30, born Maine, parents born
Maine, retired
Emily A., wife, 84, married first at age 27, born England, parents born
England, imm. 1849
Even though the 1910 census shows that Emma was still living, I haven't
yet found a record of her by her maiden name or a marriage record in
either Alameda or San Franciso counties. A lot of the marriage indexes
that I've found online so far stop in the early 1900s.
I suggest you search the Alameda, San Francisco and San Mateo county
GenWeb sites for more information. At some point in the early 1900s, it
was decided to remove almost all of the burials from San Francisco and
to ban more - the cemeteries were removed to San Mateo county (in the
town of Colma, for the most part). The California GenWeb site is:
http://cagenweb.com/
And from there you can select the counties that you need.
Maybe another researcher from alt.genealogy will have better luck in
tracking the children of William and Emily.
Cathy
Graeme Wall wrote:
I'm looking for decendants of William F Brown and his wife, Emily Agnes
(Kendall) William was born about 1843, in Maine. Emily was born 1846 in
Lambeth, Surrey, England. They married in Cambridge, Massachusetts on 29 Oct
1873. By the time of the 1880 Census they had moved to Denver, Colorado with
two daughters, Emma F born about 1875 in Massachusetts and Lillian F born
about 1878. The IGI index claims she was born in California but was probably
born in Colorado.
William was a watchmaker and jeweller.
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Brown in Colorado
I've found the son, William Franklin Brown, although his birth years
aren't matching with previous ones, the rest of the information
(occupation shown on WWI Draft Registration Card, place of birth for his
parents on 1920 census, do match).
Year: 1920;Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: T625_87;
Page: 2B; Enumeration District: 14;
Brown, W. Franklin, 34, born Colorado, father born Maine, mother born
England, Accountant for oil company
Claire E., wife, 30, born California, father born England, mother born
California
Virginia C., daughter, 3 6/12,, born California, father born Colorado,
mother born California
F. Kendall, son, 1 11/12. born California, father born Colorado, mother
born Colorado
Edwards, William, brother-in-law, 1?, born California, father born
England, mother born California, seaman, merchant marine
(ancestry.com index has 10 for the age of William Edwards, but the
second number can be anything from 0-9, it's a bit faded)
Year: 1930; Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: 100; Page:
18A; Enumeration District: 227
Brown, W. Franklin, 44, married first at age 26, born Colorado, father
born Maine, mother born England, Auditor, stock
Claire, wife, 40, married first at age 22, born California, father born
England, mother born California
Virginia C., daughter, 13, born California, father born Colorado, mother
born California
Kendall, son, 12, born California, father born Colorado, mother born
California
The California Death Index at ancestry.com has:
W. Franklin Brown, born 1 Dec 1885, Colorado, died 26 Jan 1951 in
Alameda, mother's maiden name Kendall.
Franklin Kendall Brown, born 13 Jan 1918, California, died 2 Aug 1996 in
Alameda, mother's maiden name Edwards.
The WWI Draft Registration Card database at Ancestry.com has the
following information on William Franklin Brown
Home Address: 2109 Buena Vista, Alameda, Alameda, California
Age: 32
Birthdate: 1 Dec 1885
Occupation: Bookkeeper for Shell Oil Company
Work address: 342 Sansome? St., San Francisco, San Francisco Cal
Nearest Relative: Mrs. Claire E. Brown (wife), same address
Medium height, Medium build, Grey eyes, brown hair
Registered Sept. 18, 1918 in City of Alameda
A Franklin K. Brown, born 1918 in California, enlisted in the U.S. Army
on 9 Jul 1943 (U.S. World War II Enlistment Records, 1938-1946, at
ancestry.com)
Hope that helps,
Cathy
aren't matching with previous ones, the rest of the information
(occupation shown on WWI Draft Registration Card, place of birth for his
parents on 1920 census, do match).
Year: 1920;Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: T625_87;
Page: 2B; Enumeration District: 14;
Brown, W. Franklin, 34, born Colorado, father born Maine, mother born
England, Accountant for oil company
Claire E., wife, 30, born California, father born England, mother born
California
Virginia C., daughter, 3 6/12,, born California, father born Colorado,
mother born California
F. Kendall, son, 1 11/12. born California, father born Colorado, mother
born Colorado
Edwards, William, brother-in-law, 1?, born California, father born
England, mother born California, seaman, merchant marine
(ancestry.com index has 10 for the age of William Edwards, but the
second number can be anything from 0-9, it's a bit faded)
Year: 1930; Census Place: Alameda, Alameda, California; Roll: 100; Page:
18A; Enumeration District: 227
Brown, W. Franklin, 44, married first at age 26, born Colorado, father
born Maine, mother born England, Auditor, stock
Claire, wife, 40, married first at age 22, born California, father born
England, mother born California
Virginia C., daughter, 13, born California, father born Colorado, mother
born California
Kendall, son, 12, born California, father born Colorado, mother born
California
The California Death Index at ancestry.com has:
W. Franklin Brown, born 1 Dec 1885, Colorado, died 26 Jan 1951 in
Alameda, mother's maiden name Kendall.
Franklin Kendall Brown, born 13 Jan 1918, California, died 2 Aug 1996 in
Alameda, mother's maiden name Edwards.
The WWI Draft Registration Card database at Ancestry.com has the
following information on William Franklin Brown
Home Address: 2109 Buena Vista, Alameda, Alameda, California
Age: 32
Birthdate: 1 Dec 1885
Occupation: Bookkeeper for Shell Oil Company
Work address: 342 Sansome? St., San Francisco, San Francisco Cal
Nearest Relative: Mrs. Claire E. Brown (wife), same address
Medium height, Medium build, Grey eyes, brown hair
Registered Sept. 18, 1918 in City of Alameda
A Franklin K. Brown, born 1918 in California, enlisted in the U.S. Army
on 9 Jul 1943 (U.S. World War II Enlistment Records, 1938-1946, at
ancestry.com)
Hope that helps,
Cathy
-
Graeme Wall
Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <ossAh.23194$uC5.21570@newsfe19.lga>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
That is amazing, I honestly thought that a common name like William Brown
would be virtually impossible to track, I only found them in 1880 by
accident, I'd assumed they'd still be in New England like Emily's siblings.
Many thanks, I've bookmarked that site.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
By the 1900 Federal Census, the family was living in San Francisco,
California, and had another child:
[snip]
In the 1910 Federal Census, the family is found in Alameda, California:
[snip]
In the 1920 Federal Census, William and Emily are living alone, still in
Alameda:
[snip]
In the 1930 Federal Census, both are alive and still in Alameda:
Year: 1930; Census Place: Oakland, Alameda, California; Roll: 106; Page:
10B; Enumeration District: 144
[snip]
That is amazing, I honestly thought that a common name like William Brown
would be virtually impossible to track, I only found them in 1880 by
accident, I'd assumed they'd still be in New England like Emily's siblings.
Even though the 1910 census shows that Emma was still living, I haven't
yet found a record of her by her maiden name or a marriage record in
either Alameda or San Franciso counties. A lot of the marriage indexes
that I've found online so far stop in the early 1900s.
I suggest you search the Alameda, San Francisco and San Mateo county
GenWeb sites for more information. At some point in the early 1900s, it
was decided to remove almost all of the burials from San Francisco and
to ban more - the cemeteries were removed to San Mateo county (in the
town of Colma, for the most part). The California GenWeb site is:
http://cagenweb.com/
Many thanks, I've bookmarked that site.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
Graeme Wall
Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <ljtAh.172030$qy.87892@newsfe16.lga>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that was
born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age is
consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his wife,
claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have had to
supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
[snip]
It does, very much. Thank you.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
I've found the son, William Franklin Brown, although his birth years
aren't matching with previous ones, the rest of the information
(occupation shown on WWI Draft Registration Card, place of birth for his
parents on 1920 census, do match).
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that was
born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age is
consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his wife,
claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have had to
supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
[snip]
Hope that helps,
It does, very much. Thank you.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Brown in Colorado
Graeme Wall wrote:
I've looked over the database information for the WWI Draft Registration
Cards at ancestry, and while there's a lot of historical information
there, and other details about the draft registration, there's nothing
stating whether or not the men had to show proof of age or where they
were born.
I did find this:
"There were actually three draft registration periods for World War I.
The cards from these three registrations are filed together. The
information required is slightly different on the cards from each of the
three periods.
--- First Draft (5 June 1917) - registered men between the ages of 21-31
--- Second Draft (5 June 1918) - registered men who had turned 21 since
the first registration
--- Third Draft (12 Sep 1918) - required all men ages 18-21 and 31-41
register that had not already done so."
The 1900 Census does show William F. Brown, the son, and that Emily had
had 4 children, but only 3 were living. This number of births and
deaths remains the same in the 1910 census, and that makes me doubt that
there's confusion between William F. Brown and the dead child. The
census doesn't indicate if the child was stillborn, or died in infancy
or childhood, just that one was born and died.
I find it more likely that either 1) someone other than William or Emily
provided the information for Franklin in the 1900 and 1910 censuses -
one of the children could have been having a joke at the expense of the
enumerator, or William and/or Emily did provide the information, but
confused Franklin's birthdate with the birthdate of the deceased child.
Or, your theory that Franklin lied about his age, although I don't
know why he'd want to appear 4 years older.
Here's the URL for the Arapahoe County GenWeb site - there's a ton of
links to be found there, and maybe one of them will show Franklin's
birth or the death of the one child:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Colorado apparently didn't start making birth records mandatory until
1908, but if Franklin applied for a Social Security card, then he would
have needed a birth certificate. In cases like that, the applicant
would file a delayed certificate of birth where they were born (although
I've also found them filed in the counties and states where the person
was living at the time instead of where they were born). The Colorado
State Archives does have some pre-1908 births for Denver, but they're
only for births that took place in a hospital. The database is not
online, but it is searchable for a fee:
http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/geneal.htm
IF Lillian's birth state is correct, then it looks as if the family
moved or visited California and were there when she was born. It's
possible that the deceased child was also born in California (depending
on if the family was living there or just visiting at the time of
Lillian's birth).
There is a link to an online version of the Denver City Directory for
1892, and I don't see William F. Brown listed there, so the family was
most likely in California by then or enroute (it's on the main Colorado
GenWeb page):
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Cathy
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that was
born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age is
consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his wife,
claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have had to
supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
I've looked over the database information for the WWI Draft Registration
Cards at ancestry, and while there's a lot of historical information
there, and other details about the draft registration, there's nothing
stating whether or not the men had to show proof of age or where they
were born.
I did find this:
"There were actually three draft registration periods for World War I.
The cards from these three registrations are filed together. The
information required is slightly different on the cards from each of the
three periods.
--- First Draft (5 June 1917) - registered men between the ages of 21-31
--- Second Draft (5 June 1918) - registered men who had turned 21 since
the first registration
--- Third Draft (12 Sep 1918) - required all men ages 18-21 and 31-41
register that had not already done so."
The 1900 Census does show William F. Brown, the son, and that Emily had
had 4 children, but only 3 were living. This number of births and
deaths remains the same in the 1910 census, and that makes me doubt that
there's confusion between William F. Brown and the dead child. The
census doesn't indicate if the child was stillborn, or died in infancy
or childhood, just that one was born and died.
I find it more likely that either 1) someone other than William or Emily
provided the information for Franklin in the 1900 and 1910 censuses -
one of the children could have been having a joke at the expense of the
enumerator, or William and/or Emily did provide the information, but
confused Franklin's birthdate with the birthdate of the deceased child.
Or, your theory that Franklin lied about his age, although I don't
know why he'd want to appear 4 years older.
Here's the URL for the Arapahoe County GenWeb site - there's a ton of
links to be found there, and maybe one of them will show Franklin's
birth or the death of the one child:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Colorado apparently didn't start making birth records mandatory until
1908, but if Franklin applied for a Social Security card, then he would
have needed a birth certificate. In cases like that, the applicant
would file a delayed certificate of birth where they were born (although
I've also found them filed in the counties and states where the person
was living at the time instead of where they were born). The Colorado
State Archives does have some pre-1908 births for Denver, but they're
only for births that took place in a hospital. The database is not
online, but it is searchable for a fee:
http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/geneal.htm
IF Lillian's birth state is correct, then it looks as if the family
moved or visited California and were there when she was born. It's
possible that the deceased child was also born in California (depending
on if the family was living there or just visiting at the time of
Lillian's birth).
There is a link to an online version of the Denver City Directory for
1892, and I don't see William F. Brown listed there, so the family was
most likely in California by then or enroute (it's on the main Colorado
GenWeb page):
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Cathy
-
Graeme Wall
Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <yEMAh.26325$uC5.19292@newsfe19.lga>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
OK so he could have got away with it
Either birth date would put him outside that (37 or 32)
Not applicable
Again covers both potential birth dates so no problems with the authorities.
I agree.
Unlikely I would have thought, and it's consistent while he's at home.
Actually 5 years younger if he was born 1880 but claimed 1885.
Thanks, I'll have a hunt round that.
[snip]
Can I be greedy and ask for a look up in the 1890 Census to see where they
were then?
Couldn't find them either.
Once again thanks for your sterling efforts.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that
was born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age
is consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his
wife, claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have
had to supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
I've looked over the database information for the WWI Draft Registration
Cards at ancestry, and while there's a lot of historical information
there, and other details about the draft registration, there's nothing
stating whether or not the men had to show proof of age or where they were
born.
OK so he could have got away with it
I did find this: "There were actually three draft registration periods for
World War I. The cards from these three registrations are filed together.
The information required is slightly different on the cards from each of
the three periods.
--- First Draft (5 June 1917) - registered men between the ages of 21-31
Either birth date would put him outside that (37 or 32)
--- Second Draft (5 June 1918) - registered men who had turned 21 since
the first registration
Not applicable
--- Third Draft (12 Sep 1918) - required all men ages 18-21 and 31-41
register that had not already done so."
Again covers both potential birth dates so no problems with the authorities.
The 1900 Census does show William F. Brown, the son, and that Emily had
had 4 children, but only 3 were living. This number of births and deaths
remains the same in the 1910 census, and that makes me doubt that there's
confusion between William F. Brown and the dead child.
I agree.
The census doesn't indicate if the child was stillborn, or died in infancy
or childhood, just that one was born and died.
I find it more likely that either 1) someone other than William or Emily
provided the information for Franklin in the 1900 and 1910 censuses -
one of the children could have been having a joke at the expense of the
enumerator, or William and/or Emily did provide the information, but
confused Franklin's birthdate with the birthdate of the deceased child.
Unlikely I would have thought, and it's consistent while he's at home.
Or, your theory that Franklin lied about his age, although I don't
know why he'd want to appear 4 years older.
Actually 5 years younger if he was born 1880 but claimed 1885.
Here's the URL for the Arapahoe County GenWeb site - there's a ton of
links to be found there, and maybe one of them will show Franklin's
birth or the death of the one child:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Thanks, I'll have a hunt round that.
[snip]
IF Lillian's birth state is correct, then it looks as if the family
moved or visited California and were there when she was born. It's
possible that the deceased child was also born in California (depending
on if the family was living there or just visiting at the time of
Lillian's birth).
Can I be greedy and ask for a look up in the 1890 Census to see where they
were then?
There is a link to an online version of the Denver City Directory for
1892, and I don't see William F. Brown listed there, so the family was
most likely in California by then or enroute (it's on the main Colorado
GenWeb page):
http://www.rootsweb.com/~coarapah/index.htm
Couldn't find them either.
Once again thanks for your sterling efforts.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
singhals
off-list Re: Brown in Colorado
Graeme Wall wrote:
Hi, Graeme.
The last round (sep 1918) of draft registrations was sort of
ugly -- because registering had been into one's Patriotic
Duty and not-registering apparently got you branded darn
close to traitorous, lots of 45-year-olds lied downward
about their age. Even in small town where the registrar
KNEW to a nicety how old they were, they did it and were
allowed to get away with it. [Exhibit A: my GGF, born Dec
1881 registered in Sep 1918 at the same time as his oldest
son born Oct 1900.]
If you're comparing the WWI DR with census, even a 5 year
discrepancy isn't a rule-out.
Cheryl
In message <ljtAh.172030$qy.87892@newsfe16.lga
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
I've found the son, William Franklin Brown, although his birth years
aren't matching with previous ones, the rest of the information
(occupation shown on WWI Draft Registration Card, place of birth for his
parents on 1920 census, do match).
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that was
born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age is
consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his wife,
claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have had to
supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
Hi, Graeme.
The last round (sep 1918) of draft registrations was sort of
ugly -- because registering had been into one's Patriotic
Duty and not-registering apparently got you branded darn
close to traitorous, lots of 45-year-olds lied downward
about their age. Even in small town where the registrar
KNEW to a nicety how old they were, they did it and were
allowed to get away with it. [Exhibit A: my GGF, born Dec
1881 registered in Sep 1918 at the same time as his oldest
son born Oct 1900.]
If you're comparing the WWI DR with census, even a 5 year
discrepancy isn't a rule-out.
Cheryl
-
Graeme Wall
Re: off-list Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <QKudne-Btqfx4knYnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d@rcn.net>
singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:
Thanks for that info Cheryl, could be an explanation. Makes more sense than
the other options.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
In message <ljtAh.172030$qy.87892@newsfe16.lga
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
I've found the son, William Franklin Brown, although his birth years
aren't matching with previous ones, the rest of the information
(occupation shown on WWI Draft Registration Card, place of birth for his
parents on 1920 census, do match).
The discrepancy is puzzling, unless the missing child was the one that
was born in 1880 and was also called William Franklin. However his age
is consistent up till 1910. I wonder if he lied about his age to his
wife, claimed he was only 5 yaers older than her than 10. Would he have
had to supply proof of his DoB for his draft registration?
Hi, Graeme.
The last round (sep 1918) of draft registrations was sort of
ugly -- because registering had been into one's Patriotic
Duty and not-registering apparently got you branded darn
close to traitorous, lots of 45-year-olds lied downward
about their age. Even in small town where the registrar
KNEW to a nicety how old they were, they did it and were
allowed to get away with it. [Exhibit A: my GGF, born Dec
1881 registered in Sep 1918 at the same time as his oldest
son born Oct 1900.]
If you're comparing the WWI DR with census, even a 5 year
discrepancy isn't a rule-out.
Cheryl
Thanks for that info Cheryl, could be an explanation. Makes more sense than
the other options.
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
saki
Re: off-list Re: Brown in Colorado
Graeme Wall <Graeme@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:bfee9cb54e%Graeme@greywall.demon.co.uk:
To bolster Cheryls' good advice, I think you can even go a bit further.
From my colorful side of the family, my great-grandfather's younger
brother Carl Julius Jatho took ten years from his true age (born in 1866)
to register in 1918, claiming his actual birth year was 1876. And the
registration form noted that he was crippled as well. I'm not sure how
useful he could have been to the army.
This ended up skewing his death certificate too since his family
apparently believed he was ten years younger than he was. But we have
plenty of other records in Charleston SC that recorded his true age.
----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage
news:bfee9cb54e%Graeme@greywall.demon.co.uk:
In message <QKudne-Btqfx4knYnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d@rcn.net
singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:
If you're comparing the WWI DR with census, even a 5 year
discrepancy isn't a rule-out.
Thanks for that info Cheryl, could be an explanation. Makes more
sense than the other options.
To bolster Cheryls' good advice, I think you can even go a bit further.
From my colorful side of the family, my great-grandfather's younger
brother Carl Julius Jatho took ten years from his true age (born in 1866)
to register in 1918, claiming his actual birth year was 1876. And the
registration form noted that he was crippled as well. I'm not sure how
useful he could have been to the army.
This ended up skewing his death certificate too since his family
apparently believed he was ten years younger than he was. But we have
plenty of other records in Charleston SC that recorded his true age.
----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage
-
Graeme Wall
Re: off-list Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <Xns98D864AD09AA6sakiuclaedu@130.133.1.4>
saki <saki@ucla.edu> wrote:
Seems like a likely answer then. Solves one puzzle, several hundred to go

--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
saki <saki@ucla.edu> wrote:
Graeme Wall <Graeme@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:bfee9cb54e%Graeme@greywall.demon.co.uk:
In message <QKudne-Btqfx4knYnZ2dnUVZ_t6qnZ2d@rcn.net
singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote:
If you're comparing the WWI DR with census, even a 5 year
discrepancy isn't a rule-out.
Thanks for that info Cheryl, could be an explanation. Makes more
sense than the other options.
To bolster Cheryls' good advice, I think you can even go a bit further.
From my colorful side of the family, my great-grandfather's younger
brother Carl Julius Jatho took ten years from his true age (born in 1866)
to register in 1918, claiming his actual birth year was 1876. And the
registration form noted that he was crippled as well. I'm not sure how
useful he could have been to the army.
This ended up skewing his death certificate too since his family
apparently believed he was ten years younger than he was. But we have
plenty of other records in Charleston SC that recorded his true age.
Seems like a likely answer then. Solves one puzzle, several hundred to go
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Brown in Colorado
Graeme Wall wrote:
destroyed by fire in 1921, and only a few fragments remain. There are
some efforts to re-create it by using other records (tax assessments,
deeds, etc.). The only hits for William Brown in the ancestry.com
substitute 1890 census are for the Colorado 1885 State Census. Going
directly to that, the writing is so spotty and faded that it's extremely
difficult for me to read. There are several William Brown's in Arapahoe
County, but none who match William's birth year, and no Emily. There is
an Emma, but with a birth year of 1870.
So, I can't say with 100% conviction that the family was gone from
Denver by then. If so, then that means that Franklin was wrong about
where he was born, because the state census was taken 1 June 1885 and
Franklin was born in December (the one thing about his birthdate that
doesn't change). If the family was enroute that year, they could have
been in another county in Colorado, or even in another state besides
Colorado and California.
Perhaps someone with better eyesite or methods of viewing the icky pages
can take a stab at looking at the William Brown families in the 1885
Colorado State Census?
Cathy
Can I be greedy and ask for a look up in the 1890 Census to see where they
were then?
You can ask, but it won't do much good. The 1890 Census was mostly
destroyed by fire in 1921, and only a few fragments remain. There are
some efforts to re-create it by using other records (tax assessments,
deeds, etc.). The only hits for William Brown in the ancestry.com
substitute 1890 census are for the Colorado 1885 State Census. Going
directly to that, the writing is so spotty and faded that it's extremely
difficult for me to read. There are several William Brown's in Arapahoe
County, but none who match William's birth year, and no Emily. There is
an Emma, but with a birth year of 1870.
So, I can't say with 100% conviction that the family was gone from
Denver by then. If so, then that means that Franklin was wrong about
where he was born, because the state census was taken 1 June 1885 and
Franklin was born in December (the one thing about his birthdate that
doesn't change). If the family was enroute that year, they could have
been in another county in Colorado, or even in another state besides
Colorado and California.
Perhaps someone with better eyesite or methods of viewing the icky pages
can take a stab at looking at the William Brown families in the 1885
Colorado State Census?
Cathy
-
Graeme Wall
Re: Brown in Colorado
In message <PG4Bh.11188$OY.10349@newsfe20.lga>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
I'd forgotten that, sorry.
Thanks for trying anyway
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>
Huntersglenn <huntersglenn@cox.net> wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Can I be greedy and ask for a look up in the 1890 Census to see where
they were then?
You can ask, but it won't do much good. The 1890 Census was mostly
destroyed by fire in 1921, and only a few fragments remain.
I'd forgotten that, sorry.
There are some efforts to re-create it by using other records (tax
assessments, deeds, etc.). The only hits for William Brown in the
ancestry.com substitute 1890 census are for the Colorado 1885 State
Census. Going directly to that, the writing is so spotty and faded that
it's extremely difficult for me to read. There are several William
Brown's in Arapahoe County, but none who match William's birth year, and
no Emily. There is an Emma, but with a birth year of 1870.
Thanks for trying anyway
--
Graeme Wall
My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>