Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Laurie S

Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Laurie S » 02 feb 2007 19:36:00

Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to get
a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper articles)
that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in Plymouth,
Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received a not on
file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where else it
might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital Statistics
dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and recording issues.

Much thanks,
Laurie

Hugh Watkins

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 02 feb 2007 20:02:48

Laurie S wrote:

Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to get
a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper articles)
that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in Plymouth,
Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received a not on
file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where else it
might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital Statistics
dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and recording issues.

certificate issued at another location

where she actually died or at the hospital
she could even be a Jane Doe

go looking for a local newspaper account

Hugh W

--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Charles Ellson

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Charles Ellson » 02 feb 2007 20:09:27

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:36:00 -0800, Laurie S <loriannsk@comcast.net>
wrote:

Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to get
a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper articles)
that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in Plymouth,
Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received a not on
file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where else it
might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital Statistics
dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and recording issues.

Was she still in the same district when she was pulled out of the

water ? You might need to double-check the newspaper reports for the
relevant locations.

Huntersglenn

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Huntersglenn » 02 feb 2007 20:28:24

As the others have mentioned, it could be that her death certificate is
in another county. Even if they pulled her out of the water in
Sheboygan County, it could be that she couldn't be officially pronounced
dead there - they might have had to take her to a hospital that was
located in another county. Did you ask for the certificate from
Sheboygan County or from the state offices? The state office does do
limited searches for a fee:

http://www.dhfs.state.wi.us/vitalrecords/death.htm

It could even be possible that she was taken out of state, since
Sheboygan is a border county, but Plymouth seems to be a decent distance
from the state line. Still, it's possible, especially if their local
coroner wasn't available at the time.

Good luck,
Cathy

Laurie S wrote:
Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to get
a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper articles)
that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in Plymouth,
Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received a not on
file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where else it
might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital Statistics
dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and recording issues.

Much thanks,
Laurie

Joe Pessarra

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 02 feb 2007 23:50:02

Good suggestions from everyone. Do you know where she is buried? Funeral
home record could be a possible source. Has solved my problems before.

Joe in Texas

Laurie S wrote:
Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to get
a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper articles)
that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in Plymouth,
Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received a not on
file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where else it
might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital Statistics
dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and recording
issues.

Much thanks,
Laurie

Laurie S

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Laurie S » 03 feb 2007 00:06:29

Thank you all for your replies. As I mentioned, I have info from
newspaper articles and they are from the local papers. She was not a
Jane Doe, her bio was included in the articles, and she was living with
her sister. They pulled her out of the water near where she went in at
Plymouth and she was definitely already dead. I guess she could have
been officially pronounced dead in another county, I was just trying to
make a good guess as to what to do next with my money. I do have the
name of the coroner who was called and there was an investigation but I
haven't been able to put that info to any use. I requested the
certificate from the State of Wis and they searched years 1912-1916 with
no result. Prior to 1907, the records were kept at the county level but
after 1907 they were registered with the state. I know newspaper
articles can be wrong but I'm stuck on this one. Unfortunately getting
this death cert would answer a number of brickwall questions I have for
a few of my relatives so I'm trying really hard to find it. I have no
idea where she's buried since she had moved from CA where her mother
still lived she could be buried there but I don't know how often back
then they would transport somebody that far to bury them. Maybe I should
take a chance and call the cemeteries in Plymouth and surrounding.

Thanks for the ideas,
Laurie

Huntersglenn wrote:

As the others have mentioned, it could be that her death certificate is
in another county. Even if they pulled her out of the water in
Sheboygan County, it could be that she couldn't be officially pronounced
dead there - they might have had to take her to a hospital that was
located in another county. Did you ask for the certificate from
Sheboygan County or from the state offices? The state office does do
limited searches for a fee:

http://www.dhfs.state.wi.us/vitalrecords/death.htm

It could even be possible that she was taken out of state, since
Sheboygan is a border county, but Plymouth seems to be a decent distance
from the state line. Still, it's possible, especially if their local
coroner wasn't available at the time.

Good luck,
Cathy

Laurie S wrote:

Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to
get a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper
articles) that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in
Plymouth, Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received
a not on file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where
else it might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital
Statistics dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and
recording issues.

Much thanks,
Laurie

Huntersglenn

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Huntersglenn » 03 feb 2007 01:16:02

Laurie,

Have you checked the death index for Sheboygan in the chance that her
name might be misspelled?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com ... gan/11.htm

The Sheboygan GenWeb site has a link for their forum at RootsWeb, and
you could post a query there asking if anyone knows what the procedure
might have been back then for declaring someone dead, etc. Also,
there's a link there for the Sheboygan County Historical Research
Center, and they've got indexes of the cemeteries (and will search for a
fee).

Good luck,
Cathy

Laurie S wrote:
Thank you all for your replies. As I mentioned, I have info from
newspaper articles and they are from the local papers. She was not a
Jane Doe, her bio was included in the articles, and she was living with
her sister. They pulled her out of the water near where she went in at
Plymouth and she was definitely already dead. I guess she could have
been officially pronounced dead in another county, I was just trying to
make a good guess as to what to do next with my money. I do have the
name of the coroner who was called and there was an investigation but I
haven't been able to put that info to any use. I requested the
certificate from the State of Wis and they searched years 1912-1916 with
no result. Prior to 1907, the records were kept at the county level but
after 1907 they were registered with the state. I know newspaper
articles can be wrong but I'm stuck on this one. Unfortunately getting
this death cert would answer a number of brickwall questions I have for
a few of my relatives so I'm trying really hard to find it. I have no
idea where she's buried since she had moved from CA where her mother
still lived she could be buried there but I don't know how often back
then they would transport somebody that far to bury them. Maybe I should
take a chance and call the cemeteries in Plymouth and surrounding.

Thanks for the ideas,
Laurie

Huntersglenn wrote:

As the others have mentioned, it could be that her death certificate
is in another county. Even if they pulled her out of the water in
Sheboygan County, it could be that she couldn't be officially
pronounced dead there - they might have had to take her to a hospital
that was located in another county. Did you ask for the certificate
from Sheboygan County or from the state offices? The state office
does do limited searches for a fee:

http://www.dhfs.state.wi.us/vitalrecords/death.htm

It could even be possible that she was taken out of state, since
Sheboygan is a border county, but Plymouth seems to be a decent
distance from the state line. Still, it's possible, especially if
their local coroner wasn't available at the time.

Good luck,
Cathy

Laurie S wrote:

Hi all, I need some advice. I have a relative for whom I'm trying to
get a death cert for. I know (from my grandmother and newspaper
articles) that she committed suicide by drowning on Aug 1, 1914 in
Plymouth, Sheboygan Co., WI. I sent for the death cert but I received
a not on file! Any thoughts as to why it wouldn't be on file or where
else it might be found. In 1907, Wisconsin established their Vital
Statistics dept so I don't think the problem because of the year and
recording issues.

Much thanks,
Laurie


Liz_in_Calgary

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 03 feb 2007 12:47:58

Anything can happen... my great grandfather died in
Saskatchewan and they buried him in Minnisota. I don't know
the time delay between the death and final burial but it
could have been a couple of years.

take care
Liz



On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 15:06:29 -0800, in alt.genealogy Laurie
S <loriannsk@comcast.net> wrote :


a few of my relatives so I'm trying really hard to find it. I have no
idea where she's buried since she had moved from CA where her mother
still lived she could be buried there but I don't know how often back
then they would transport somebody that far to bury them. Maybe I should
take a chance and call the cemeteries in Plymouth and surrounding.

singhals

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av singhals » 03 feb 2007 17:44:32

Laurie S wrote:


no result. Prior to 1907, the records were kept at the county level but
after 1907 they were registered with the state. I know newspaper

Clarify for yourself at least -- after 1907 the county DID
NOT KEEP THESE records or after 1907 the state got a copy?
There's a huge difference.

articles can be wrong but I'm stuck on this one. Unfortunately getting

A newspaper article published where people personally knew
(a) the editor and/or (b) the subject tended to have a
fairly high level of accuracy. Is the article a news
article about the drowning or an obit?

this death cert would answer a number of brickwall questions I have for
a few of my relatives so I'm trying really hard to find it. I have no
idea where she's buried since she had moved from CA where her mother
still lived she could be buried there but I don't know how often back
then they would transport somebody that far to bury them. Maybe I should

They were moving bodies around the US once trains got a
foothold. If they did move a body, there's a paperwork
trail, I'm told. If you know where her mother lived in
California, check cemeteries there.


take a chance and call the cemeteries in Plymouth and surrounding.

Being Scots, I'm averse to spending toll-calls listening to
"Your Call is Important To Us..."; send a letter or an
e-mail. But the basic concept of contacting the cemeteries
is good.

Good luck!

Cheryl

Gjest

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Gjest » 05 feb 2007 17:22:15

On Feb 3, 10:44 am, singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:
Laurie S wrote:
no result. Prior to 1907, the records were kept at the county level but
after 1907 they were registered with the state. I know newspaper

Clarify for yourself at least -- after 1907 the county DID
NOT KEEP THESE records or after 1907 the state got a copy?
There's a huge difference.

articles can be wrong but I'm stuck on this one. Unfortunately getting

A newspaper article published where people personally knew
(a) the editor and/or (b) the subject tended to have a
fairly high level of accuracy. Is the article a news
article about the drowning or an obit?

this death cert would answer a number of brickwall questions I have for
a few of my relatives so I'm trying really hard to find it. I have no
idea where she's buried since she had moved from CA where her mother
still lived she could be buried there but I don't know how often back
then they would transport somebody that far to bury them. Maybe I should

They were moving bodies around the US once trains got a
foothold. If they did move a body, there's a paperwork
trail, I'm told. If you know where her mother lived in
California, check cemeteries there.

take a chance and call the cemeteries in Plymouth and surrounding.

Being Scots, I'm averse to spending toll-calls listening to
"Your Call is Important To Us..."; send a letter or an
e-mail. But the basic concept of contacting the cemeteries
is good.

Good luck!

Cheryl

2-4-2007

Please mention the lady's name and date of birth and date of death and
place of death. Your query is somewhat vague in that we don't know
exactly what specific information you want from the death certificate--
if we knew that, we could suggest some other places/sources for you to
look at.

KEITH
GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delbert Stanley

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Delbert Stanley » 07 feb 2007 02:31:02

<keith345@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170692535.311207.260190@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Please mention the lady's name and date of birth and date of death and
place of death. Your query is somewhat vague in that we don't know
exactly what specific information you want from the death certificate--
if we knew that, we could suggest some other places/sources for you to
look at.

KEITH
GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Keith. What also could be revealing is whether or not she was a

member of
a church. Laurie had asked why wouldn't there by any records? Of course the
obvious
answer would be because they were lost, or destroyed by fire, flood, etc.
like a
1890 census for example. There could be partial losses of records, so some
could exists for some people during that period and not for others.

As many people have mentioned, the correct county is important. It should
be noted that a city in 1907 in a certain county could be in a different
county
today. I've seen this happen in Texas a lot. For example (made up)
Pleasantville City is in Sky County in 1895. In 1910 the state creates a
new county, Wood County by carving out an area from the existing
Sky County. Pleasantville City is now a part of the new Wood County.
If Jane Doe died in 1900 in Pleasantville City, her records would be
in Sky County. A descendant coming in 2007 to view her records would
likely look in the Wood County archives. After all Jane Doe definitely died
in Pleasantville, and we know NOW that Pleasantville is in Wood County.
Well, most likely, those record would not be in Wood County, they would
be in Sky County. We cannot assume the county today is the same county
that existed then. Laurie, you may want to see when the county you are
examining came into existence. If it was created after her death, you
may be in the wrong county. Of course that may not always be the case,
just be aware.

Now, back to the church thing. If you can't find municipal records
you may sometimes find that many churches will keep their own
death records. Your situation is complicated by the fact that your
person committed suicide. Different churches handled these cases
quite differently. Some refused to give the deceased a funeral, and
would not allow that person to be buried on church grounds. Some
may have kept records, while others just simply refused to acknowledge
that those persons ever existed. In these cases there are no records.
Of course that is not the business of the county's, but if they don't have
any records, see if she had any church affiliation---keeping in mind
how suicides were treated then.

The largest source for genealogical research in the U.S.
is of course the LDS Church. They have a website that deals
specifically with suicides. I checked it out, but it was not relevant to
what
Laurie is trying to find.

There is another site listed below that deals with "ancestors at rest"
via church records. They say a search for Wisconsin is free, but I
doubt it. You can check it out and see if can be helpful.

http://ancestorsatrest.com/church_records/

Del

Hugh Watkins

Re: Death Record Not On File! Now what?

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 07 feb 2007 06:25:19

Delbert Stanley wrote:

keith345@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170692535.311207.260190@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Please mention the lady's name and date of birth and date of death and
place of death. Your query is somewhat vague in that we don't know
exactly what specific information you want from the death certificate--
if we knew that, we could suggest some other places/sources for you to
look at.

KEITH
GENEALOGICAL RESEARCHER
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree Keith. What also could be revealing is whether or not she was a
member of
a church. Laurie had asked why wouldn't there by any records? Of course the
obvious
answer would be because they were lost, or destroyed by fire, flood, etc.
like a
1890 census for example. There could be partial losses of records, so some
could exists for some people during that period and not for others.

As many people have mentioned, the correct county is important. It should
be noted that a city in 1907 in a certain county could be in a different
county
today. I've seen this happen in Texas a lot. For example (made up)
Pleasantville City is in Sky County in 1895. In 1910 the state creates a
new county, Wood County by carving out an area from the existing
Sky County. Pleasantville City is now a part of the new Wood County.
If Jane Doe died in 1900 in Pleasantville City, her records would be
in Sky County. A descendant coming in 2007 to view her records would
likely look in the Wood County archives. After all Jane Doe definitely died
in Pleasantville, and we know NOW that Pleasantville is in Wood County.
Well, most likely, those record would not be in Wood County, they would
be in Sky County. We cannot assume the county today is the same county
that existed then. Laurie, you may want to see when the county you are
examining came into existence. If it was created after her death, you
may be in the wrong county. Of course that may not always be the case,
just be aware.

Now, back to the church thing. If you can't find municipal records
you may sometimes find that many churches will keep their own
death records. Your situation is complicated by the fact that your
person committed suicide. Different churches handled these cases
quite differently. Some refused to give the deceased a funeral, and
would not allow that person to be buried on church grounds. Some
may have kept records, while others just simply refused to acknowledge
that those persons ever existed. In these cases there are no records.
Of course that is not the business of the county's, but if they don't have
any records, see if she had any church affiliation---keeping in mind
how suicides were treated then.

The largest source for genealogical research in the U.S.
is of course the LDS Church.

not true
it is a secondary source

the primary source is NARA
and other national and local archives

like in UK there is very much which is neither on line nor indexed

They have a website that deals
specifically with suicides. I checked it out, but it was not relevant to
what
Laurie is trying to find.

There is another site listed below that deals with "ancestors at rest"
via church records. They say a search for Wisconsin is free, but I
doubt it. You can check it out and see if can be helpful.

http://ancestorsatrest.com/church_records/

is a click for profit site

does not even have a good link to ssdi

http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/ is a freebie

Hugh W


--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

Svar

Gå tilbake til «alt.genealogy»