Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

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saki

Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 20 jan 2007 21:01:29

Anyone who likes photo detective work, please feel free to comment. I'd
be grateful for any ideas.

I've been going through old photos that belonged to my great-grandmother
Catherina Petersen, who lived in Chicago. One had me stumped for over a
year but now I'm wondering whether they're both portraits of her brother
Andrew Petersen of Kenosha, WI and his wife Marie?

The first is here:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/andre ... nhance.jpg

This is marked "Andrew and Marie" and we know they were married in late
1888 in Chicago. The clothing and hairstyles work well for that era.
Andrew was born in Schleswig-Holstein in 1867, Karen Marie Johansen in
Denmark in 1870.

Here's another photo, unidentified:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/danis ... nhance.jpg

There are certain resemblances, more for the man than the lady, though
the lady's mouth and ears seem like Marie's; yet the hair is
darker--could be the result of studio lighting I suppose.

I'm having trouble accurately dating her style of dress and hairstyle.
The vertical trim suggests 1905-1910 to me but I'm just not sure. The
photo studio is in Kenosha WI where we know Andrew and Marie raised
their family.

Could this be Andrew and Marie twenty years or so after their marriage?

Thanks in advance for any help.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

Michael Kenefick

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av Michael Kenefick » 20 jan 2007 21:54:58

My kingdom for a CSI expert with a morphing age progression program 8>)
But seriously, I do not think the woman is the same in each picture.
I do not think the danish...jpg is older than andre...jpg. Is it
possible that the andrew...jpg are the children of Andrew and Mary?

Mike in Ohio

saki wrote:
Anyone who likes photo detective work, please feel free to comment. I'd
be grateful for any ideas.

I've been going through old photos that belonged to my great-grandmother
Catherina Petersen, who lived in Chicago. One had me stumped for over a
year but now I'm wondering whether they're both portraits of her brother
Andrew Petersen of Kenosha, WI and his wife Marie?

The first is here:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/andre ... nhance.jpg

This is marked "Andrew and Marie" and we know they were married in late
1888 in Chicago. The clothing and hairstyles work well for that era.
Andrew was born in Schleswig-Holstein in 1867, Karen Marie Johansen in
Denmark in 1870.

Here's another photo, unidentified:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/danis ... nhance.jpg

There are certain resemblances, more for the man than the lady, though
the lady's mouth and ears seem like Marie's; yet the hair is
darker--could be the result of studio lighting I suppose.

I'm having trouble accurately dating her style of dress and hairstyle.
The vertical trim suggests 1905-1910 to me but I'm just not sure. The
photo studio is in Kenosha WI where we know Andrew and Marie raised
their family.

Could this be Andrew and Marie twenty years or so after their marriage?

Thanks in advance for any help.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

saki

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 20 jan 2007 22:36:02

Michael Kenefick wrote:

My kingdom for a CSI expert with a morphing age progression program 8>)

Wouldn't that be nice!

But seriously, I do not think the woman is the same in each picture.

That's the biggest problem I have with it too...not enough of a
resemblance. On the other hand the younger lady was in her teens and the
older one possibly 15-20 years later, if I'm dating the clothing style
properly. If I'm not, maybe it's all a wild goose chase.

I do not think the danish...jpg is older than andre...jpg. Is it possible
that the andrew...jpg are the children of Andrew and Mary?

Nope, we have a positive ID on the picture of Andrew and Marie from
1888, and I know who his parents were. I have a photo of his mother.
She's not the lady in the photo of the "Danish couple".

But I appreciate the feedback! Unless I stumble onto something more
positive the "Danish couple" will remain unidentified.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

Hugh Watkins

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 21 jan 2007 02:25:54

Michael Kenefick wrote:
My kingdom for a CSI expert with a morphing age progression program 8>)
But seriously, I do not think the woman is the same in each picture. I
do not think the danish...jpg is older than andre...jpg. Is it possible
that the andrew...jpg are the children of Andrew and Mary?

Mike in Ohio

saki wrote:

Anyone who likes photo detective work, please feel free to comment.
I'd be grateful for any ideas.

I've been going through old photos that belonged to my
great-grandmother Catherina Petersen, who lived in Chicago. One had me
stumped for over a year but now I'm wondering whether they're both
portraits of her brother Andrew Petersen of Kenosha, WI and his wife
Marie?

The first is here:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/andre ... nhance.jpg

This is marked "Andrew and Marie" and we know they were married in
late 1888 in Chicago. The clothing and hairstyles work well for that
era. Andrew was born in Schleswig-Holstein in 1867, Karen Marie
Johansen in Denmark in 1870.

Here's another photo, unidentified:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/danis ... nhance.jpg

There are certain resemblances, more for the man than the lady, though
the lady's mouth and ears seem like Marie's; yet the hair is
darker--could be the result of studio lighting I suppose.

I'm having trouble accurately dating her style of dress and hairstyle.
The vertical trim suggests 1905-1910 to me but I'm just not sure. The
photo studio is in Kenosha WI where we know Andrew and Marie raised
their family.

Could this be Andrew and Marie twenty years or so after their marriage?


my guess would be father and son with their respective ladies

Hugh
--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

saki

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 21 jan 2007 02:43:11

Hugh Watkins wrote:

my guess would be father and son with their respective ladies

Thanks, Hugh, that's what Michael thought as well. But I know what
Andrew's mother looked like (not his father, alas), and the older lady
is not Andrew's mother. It's a tempting theory and it had crossed my
mind at one point.

The only Petersen family we had in Kenosha was Andrew and his wife
Marie. It could be Marie's parents, I guess.

If this teaches me anything it's to label every photo in my own
collection. :-)

The feedback is very helpful. Thanks to you both.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

jj206

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av jj206 » 21 jan 2007 10:50:33

saki wrote:
Anyone who likes photo detective work, please feel free to comment. I'd
be grateful for any ideas.

I've been going through old photos that belonged to my great-grandmother
Catherina Petersen, who lived in Chicago. One had me stumped for over a
year but now I'm wondering whether they're both portraits of her brother
Andrew Petersen of Kenosha, WI and his wife Marie?

The first is here:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/andre ... nhance.jpg

This is marked "Andrew and Marie" and we know they were married in late
1888 in Chicago. The clothing and hairstyles work well for that era.
Andrew was born in Schleswig-Holstein in 1867, Karen Marie Johansen in
Denmark in 1870.

Here's another photo, unidentified:

http://www.sakionline.net/uploads/danis ... nhance.jpg

There are certain resemblances, more for the man than the lady, though
the lady's mouth and ears seem like Marie's; yet the hair is
darker--could be the result of studio lighting I suppose.

I'm having trouble accurately dating her style of dress and hairstyle.
The vertical trim suggests 1905-1910 to me but I'm just not sure. The
photo studio is in Kenosha WI where we know Andrew and Marie raised
their family.

Could this be Andrew and Marie twenty years or so after their marriage?

Thanks in advance for any help.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

Well, I was looking at the photographer's seal below the photo
and it says Henry W Reith. So maybe there is a Reith Photography
studio still in Kenosha, Wisconsin ? If there is, then you could
stop by with the photo and find out the age of the picture if they
keep track of that sort of thing. Unfortunately there are 22
portrait photographers in Kenosha, so visiting them all might be
hard to do. But calling them via cell phone might be ok as one
of them might be directly related to Henry Reith. Kind of a long
shot I guess, but I'm just thinking out loud here. *smile*

I googled "Henry Reith" and found one. Henry Reith b: Aug. 04, 1884.
Waukesha County Wisconsin. Waukesha is only two counties north.

As for the age of the dress, you could stop by any photography
place that is not too busy and they might give you a guess since
photography is their business.

I did find this webpage on hair and hats.

http://www.fashion-era.com/hats-hair/ha ... 0_1920.htm

There are other links at the site above to help you date the photograph.

good luck,

Jonathan

saki

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 21 jan 2007 18:00:55

jj206 wrote:

I googled "Henry Reith" and found one. Henry Reith b: Aug. 04, 1884.
Waukesha County Wisconsin. Waukesha is only two counties north.

Thanks helpful, thanks! I'll follow up with this. It suggests (assuming
there was no older relative with the same name in the same business)
that the studio probably didn't exist prior to c. 1900; he would have
been too young.

I know there's a list of Illinois photography studios with dates of
existence. Maybe I can find something similar for Wisconsin.

As for the age of the dress, you could stop by any photography
place that is not too busy and they might give you a guess since
photography is their business.

I did find this webpage on hair and hats.

http://www.fashion-era.com/hats-hair/ha ... _1900_1920.

Thanks, Jonathan! I'll try that link. I appreciate your thoughts.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

Woodhouse Genealogy

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av Woodhouse Genealogy » 22 jan 2007 02:50:03

I downloaded the pictures and pulled them into Paint Shop Pro v9 (I
find to be a very good program). I then cropped the pictures to only
show the ladies faces and enlarged. In my opinion, the two women are
not the same. Notice that the lady in "andrewmarieenchance.jpg" that
the woman's nose is upturned whereas the lady in
"danishcoupleenhance.jpg" the woman's nose is not upturned, but rather
more pointed. The second lady's nostrils are separated by the tip of
the nose whereas the first lady's are not.

Although both ladies tend to have a similar shape face, I find the
upper lip of the lady from "danishcouple" to have a thin upper lip
where Marie's upper lip is fuller. Finally, I find the Marie's face
shape to be more oval where the lady from "danish couple" tends to be
square with a lower point where the jaw curves into the chin.

In general, I find the same anomalies in the gentlemen. I know the
beard may throw me off a bit, but I find that the gentelman in
"danishcouple" to have a more squared chin and higher cheekbones than
those of Andrew. However, I do believe the noses in both pictures are
similar, where the tip of the nose tends to separate the nostrils
rather than being upturned or some other type. I do believe the upper
lip of the man from "danishcouple" to be fuller than that of Andrew,
but not enormously different.

I know this does not help you much, but wanted to give you my opinion
on the differences in the phot.

saki

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 22 jan 2007 03:01:30

Woodhouse Genealogy wrote:

I know this does not help you much, but wanted to give you my opinion
on the differences in the photo.

That's a comprehensive analysis. Thanks very much! I guess I'm leaning
toward the "Danish couple" photo being folks we may never identify, but
perhaps someday....

I appreciate your work. I should try the Photoshop techniques myself at
some point.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

Hugh Watkins

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 22 jan 2007 11:52:22

saki wrote:

Woodhouse Genealogy wrote:


I know this does not help you much, but wanted to give you my opinion
on the differences in the photo.


That's a comprehensive analysis. Thanks very much! I guess I'm leaning
toward the "Danish couple" photo being folks we may never identify, but
perhaps someday....

I appreciate your work. I should try the Photoshop techniques myself at
some point.

you could of course ask in Denmark

the usenet group is pretty quiet
news:dk.videnskab.historie.genealogi

local history
news:dk.videnskab.historie.lokalhistorie

just post in english

it is just possible the woman has a regional style of "national dress"

the National photographic collection is at http://www.kb.dk

and the most helpful genealogists at
http://www.dis-danmark.dk/dis-english.asp

what is your danish connection?


names, dates occupations, places of origin please
surnames if patronymics from the 15 most popular christian names are not
enough to identify a family

Hugh W






--

a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/

Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

saki

Re: Photo comparison: Two couples, two decades apart?

Legg inn av saki » 22 jan 2007 16:23:17

Hugh Watkins wrote:

you could of course ask in Denmark

the usenet group is pretty quiet
news:dk.videnskab.historie.genealogi

Thanks for the reference, I appreciate it.

it is just possible the woman has a regional style of "national dress"

Possibly. The photo is stamped with a Kenosha photography studio but it
could be a copy of one from the old country, I suppose.

what is your danish connection?

names, dates occupations, places of origin please

Earliest names I have so far are Petter (as it's spelled in the marriage
records and 1801 census) Hansen, born in 1775 in Haderslev, a tailor,
married to Barbara Sorensdatter (1776) of Sielborg (later Sjælborg), Ribe.

Their son Hans Peter Petersen (born in 1797, christened in Hostrup
kirke, Ribe), was a glazier married Ellen Jurgensdatter of Jyndevad
(Jundewandt). They settled in Burkal and had two sons, Peter Hansen
Petersen and Lorenz Petersen, both of whom are my
great-great-grandfathers, emigrating to Nebraska in 1872 and 1878.

Family later settled in Chicago IL and Kenosha WI.

All the details I know are here:

http://sakionline.net/familypage/petersen1.shtml

Still working on finding Petter's birth record and perhaps earlier.

----
saki@ucla.edu
http://sakionline.net/familypage

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