Subject: Re: DNA Research Questions?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:18:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Hugh Watkins <hugh.watkins@gmail.com>
Organization: http://www.linkpendium.com/ | The definitive directory to
genealogical resources
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.methods
References: <du4olf$jan$1@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
[ Hugh and all, I apologize. Hugh submitted this post on 02 Mar 06,
and it looks like my mail handling software ate it. I just found
the post, and I'm approving it 10 months late ... - Mod ]
JYoung6180@aol.com wrote:
While we are discussing DNA issues on this list I'd like to ask
those who know more about DNA research than I do what they think of
this...
=
On another list I was doing a lookup in church records and found
info the original poster was looking for. She claimed that the
family was English but all the sons had married German wives (this
was in the early to mid 1700s) in Pennsylvania. She claimed the
wives insisted the husbands use German spellings for their names and
name the children German given names. All of the records are in
German Lutheran and Moravian churches.
=
She says that earlier researchers for this family stated that this
"English" family was in America for three generations (although no
one can really produce any conclusive records) and that the German
wives and German Lutheran ministers are the reason the names all
appear as German. This makes no sense to me. She lists the
following as further evidence:
=
1) one of the men was a Loyalist during the Revolution--which she
feels indicates strong ties to the Crown of England.
American Revolutionary War (1776-1783),
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page1.asp
For all that, the Hanoverian period was remarkably stable, not least
because of the longevity of its kings. From 1714 through to 1837,
there were only five monarchs, one of whom, George III, remains the
longest reigning king in British History.
they came from Hanover in Germany
George III was born on 4 June 1738 in London, the eldest son of
Frederick, Prince of Wales, and Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha.
He became heir to the throne on the death of his father in 1751,
succeeding his grandfather, George II, in 1760. He was the third
Hanoverian monarch and the first one to be born in England and to
use English as his first language.
(But not all
Germans supported the Patriot cause.)
2) one man's will was written in English and English name spellings
were used--although the signature of the man was an X meaning he
didn't do the writing for the will himself.
=
And #3...she claims the ultimate proof that the family was English
is that nine men have had Y DNA testing proving they all descend
from the same common ancestor who died in 1760 (the one with the
will noted in #2 above). This is their brick wall ancestor. Now
I'll buy that part so far, but then she goes on to say that the DNA
testing PROVES the family is English and not German because they all
were from a Haplogroup which is ONLY English!
the english came from Saxony in north Germany
they spoken saxon (low german) until the norman conquest added a
french speaking upper class
This is the part that boggles my mind. How on earth is it possible
to claim that someone is English and not German by means of DNA? I
would think there was much early "traffic" back and forth between
what is now Germany (and the rest of mainland Western Europe) and
England. So how can a "Western European" Haplogroup PROVE beyond
doubt that a line was English and not German? The specific
Haplogroup is: R1b1.
=
I think the reason these researchers are staring at a long-standing
brick wall is the fact that they are dead set on looking for an
English ancestor and not a German one. They even used as proof the
fact that one son was named Aaron =
biblical name
or german jewish at that time
eg
ETTLINGER, Jakob Aaron, Rabbiner und theologischer Schriftsteller, * 17. =
Marz 1798 in Karlsruhe, gest. 7. Dezember 1871
playing with stammbaum (trees) on german site:de)
could be converts to christianity
and claimed no German would have
named a son Aaron--but then an earlier record turned up and showed
this same son listed as Ehrhard--so as far as I'm concerned Aaron
was just an Anglicized version of Ehrhard.
=
Thoughts on the DNA question above would be appreciated. Thanks!
dna can confirm or deny traditional research
but not replace it
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins <hugh.watkins@gmail.com>
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
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