Two weddings
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Sherry
Two weddings
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every bit
romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
Thanks,
Sherry
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every bit
romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
Thanks,
Sherry
-
Carole Allen
Re: Two weddings
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:35:57 -0500, Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote:
documents from the first wedding are the valid ones. Anyway, who
would know? The documents are often signed separately/privately, not
out in front of invitees.
My son wanted my boss, a judge, to perform his wedding but he lives in
another state so it turned out she couldn't do it there. With the
invites out and the reception booked, at one point they considered
slipping into a courthouse a few days prior and doing the legal part
with a judge in their state, then having my judge do the "ceremony"
for the invitees. This 2nd ceremony wouldn't have involved any
paperwork, just exchanging vows in front of friends and family,
sharing their happiness with everyone. Ultimately, they found a
minister to do it on the originally scheduled day.
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
This is a "show" wedding...you don't need any documentation. The
documents from the first wedding are the valid ones. Anyway, who
would know? The documents are often signed separately/privately, not
out in front of invitees.
My son wanted my boss, a judge, to perform his wedding but he lives in
another state so it turned out she couldn't do it there. With the
invites out and the reception booked, at one point they considered
slipping into a courthouse a few days prior and doing the legal part
with a judge in their state, then having my judge do the "ceremony"
for the invitees. This 2nd ceremony wouldn't have involved any
paperwork, just exchanging vows in front of friends and family,
sharing their happiness with everyone. Ultimately, they found a
minister to do it on the originally scheduled day.
-
Charles Ellson
Re: Two weddings
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:35:57 -0500, Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote:
to a marriage must be "free to marry" which a married couple are not,
so the event to be validly recorded would be the first one as the
second one in most cases would be void.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every bit
romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
ITYF a general requirement in most jurisdictions is that the parties
to a marriage must be "free to marry" which a married couple are not,
so the event to be validly recorded would be the first one as the
second one in most cases would be void.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
-
Christopher Jahn
Re: Two weddings
Sherry <sherdh@excite.com> wrote in
news:Xns984BC7600793TansyRagwortNetscape@216.196.97.142:
Well, we all know that MY parents eloped - and THEN got married a
few months later. My dad's folks (who ALSO eloped) were ok with
it, but my mother's family wanted a big wedding; more to give the
family a chance to celebrate the marriage than anything else.
My parents always celebrated the big wedding as their anniversary.
But we all knew about the elopement.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
Occam was never the target of a conspiracy.
news:Xns984BC7600793TansyRagwortNetscape@216.196.97.142:
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for
documentation of the wedding???? I wonder if it will ever
slip out that they were already married when they got married!
Well, we all know that MY parents eloped - and THEN got married a
few months later. My dad's folks (who ALSO eloped) were ok with
it, but my mother's family wanted a big wedding; more to give the
family a chance to celebrate the marriage than anything else.
My parents always celebrated the big wedding as their anniversary.
But we all knew about the elopement.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
Occam was never the target of a conspiracy.
-
Gjest
Re: Two weddings
Sherry, this happens ALL the time. I've even known people who had small
intimate ceremonies to get the nerve wracking part out of the way
before the big fancy wedding. And heck, there are lots of people who
have a civil ceremony at one point and go for a religious ceremony at
some other time. Lots of reasons why they might do that - from the
timing being bad for a big wedding, to work/travel/insurance reasons.
Its also nothing new! I have lots of ancestors from rural Scotland for
example for whom you can find two weddings within a few weeksdays (i.e.
they married in her little village church, and then a week later, they
married in his, probably so both families could get to see a ceremony
and throw a party!)
You seem to think its some big dirty secret. Why would anyone care?
M.
intimate ceremonies to get the nerve wracking part out of the way
before the big fancy wedding. And heck, there are lots of people who
have a civil ceremony at one point and go for a religious ceremony at
some other time. Lots of reasons why they might do that - from the
timing being bad for a big wedding, to work/travel/insurance reasons.
Its also nothing new! I have lots of ancestors from rural Scotland for
example for whom you can find two weddings within a few weeksdays (i.e.
they married in her little village church, and then a week later, they
married in his, probably so both families could get to see a ceremony
and throw a party!)
You seem to think its some big dirty secret. Why would anyone care?
M.
-
Sherry
Re: Two weddings
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org wrote in
news:1159486684.498642.165920@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
*I* don't seem to think it's a big dirty secret - the couple who got
married said they don't want any one to know they were married earlier
this year - they want everyone to think that the wedding next year is
their official wedding! Their family and one close friend are the only
ones who know about the first wedding.
They're the ones to ask about why anyone would care!
My question was what is the best way to document this in my genealogy
program? Should I respect their wishes and document the second
ceremony or document their first ceremony as their wedding date?
Should I put in the second ceremony as the date with a private
notation of the real date?
Sherry
news:1159486684.498642.165920@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Sherry, this happens ALL the time. I've even known people who had
small intimate ceremonies to get the nerve wracking part out of the
way before the big fancy wedding. And heck, there are lots of people
who have a civil ceremony at one point and go for a religious
ceremony at some other time. Lots of reasons why they might do that
- from the timing being bad for a big wedding, to
work/travel/insurance reasons.
snip
You seem to think its some big dirty secret. Why would anyone care?
M.
*I* don't seem to think it's a big dirty secret - the couple who got
married said they don't want any one to know they were married earlier
this year - they want everyone to think that the wedding next year is
their official wedding! Their family and one close friend are the only
ones who know about the first wedding.
They're the ones to ask about why anyone would care!
My question was what is the best way to document this in my genealogy
program? Should I respect their wishes and document the second
ceremony or document their first ceremony as their wedding date?
Should I put in the second ceremony as the date with a private
notation of the real date?
Sherry
-
Charles Ellson
Re: Two weddings
On 28 Sep 2006 16:38:04 -0700, Mary_Gordon@tvo.org wrote:
<snip>
Parochial Registers these are IME mostly the same marriage recorded
twice with one entry (usually accurate) in the register of the parish
where the marriage occurred and another entry in the parish register
for the person who was marrying "away". In the case of IGI entries
some are actually derived from records of banns with the IGI showing
the date they were last called in the church where the marriage didn't
take place but identifying them as marriages, making it a week early;
in other cases the additional OPR entry clearly states the marriage
occurred elsewhere but the date when wrong is often a week late,
possibly because the message that a marriage occurred on "xxxday last"
has arrived over a week later.
<snip>
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
<snip>
Its also nothing new! I have lots of ancestors from rural Scotland for
example for whom you can find two weddings within a few weeksdays (i.e.
they married in her little village church, and then a week later, they
married in his, probably so both families could get to see a ceremony
and throw a party!)
If you are referring to apparent "double-weddings" in the Old
Parochial Registers these are IME mostly the same marriage recorded
twice with one entry (usually accurate) in the register of the parish
where the marriage occurred and another entry in the parish register
for the person who was marrying "away". In the case of IGI entries
some are actually derived from records of banns with the IGI showing
the date they were last called in the church where the marriage didn't
take place but identifying them as marriages, making it a week early;
in other cases the additional OPR entry clearly states the marriage
occurred elsewhere but the date when wrong is often a week late,
possibly because the message that a marriage occurred on "xxxday last"
has arrived over a week later.
<snip>
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles@e11son.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
-
Huntersglenn
Re: Two weddings
The first wedding is the legal one, so that's the one that should be put
into your documentation. If it were me, I'd put the second wedding
ceremony in as a note as to why they held the second ceremony.
Good luck though, dealing with them whenever they see the entry!
Cathy
Sherry wrote:
into your documentation. If it were me, I'd put the second wedding
ceremony in as a note as to why they held the second ceremony.
Good luck though, dealing with them whenever they see the entry!
Cathy
Sherry wrote:
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every bit
romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
Thanks,
Sherry
-
singhals
Re: Two weddings
If she is going to have much of a life with these people, she'll do it
other way around: use the date they want used and put in the notes "It
is rumored that there was an earlier wedding on (date) in (place)."
Then, when the people they don't want knowing that have died, she can
move the dates around.
Diplomacy in family matters is often crucial to getting more information.
Cheryl
Huntersglenn wrote:
other way around: use the date they want used and put in the notes "It
is rumored that there was an earlier wedding on (date) in (place)."
Then, when the people they don't want knowing that have died, she can
move the dates around.
Diplomacy in family matters is often crucial to getting more information.
Cheryl
Huntersglenn wrote:
The first wedding is the legal one, so that's the one that should be put
into your documentation. If it were me, I'd put the second wedding
ceremony in as a note as to why they held the second ceremony.
Good luck though, dealing with them whenever they see the entry!
Cathy
Sherry wrote:
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every
bit romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of
the wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were
already married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
Thanks,
Sherry
-
Sherry
Re: Two weddings
singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote in
news:yKudnb6Jc7copoDYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@rcn.net:
Oh, I like the "it is rumored" comment! Of course, in the program I use,
I can always create an event and make the event private so it'll never
show in any reports - it'll be in the database though.
Sherry
news:yKudnb6Jc7copoDYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@rcn.net:
If she is going to have much of a life with these people, she'll do
it other way around: use the date they want used and put in the
notes "It is rumored that there was an earlier wedding on (date) in
(place)." Then, when the people they don't want knowing that have
died, she can move the dates around.
Diplomacy in family matters is often crucial to getting more
information.
Cheryl
Oh, I like the "it is rumored" comment! Of course, in the program I use,
I can always create an event and make the event private so it'll never
show in any reports - it'll be in the database though.
Sherry
-
Phyllis Nilsson
Re: Two weddings
Probably depends on how accurate you want your record to be. As long as you
can make it private, but keep it in your database, why not go for the
accurate date. Renewal of vows isn't a wedding, so it depends on which of
the two you want to record.
Sherry wrote:
--
Toledo,Ohio
can make it private, but keep it in your database, why not go for the
accurate date. Renewal of vows isn't a wedding, so it depends on which of
the two you want to record.
Sherry wrote:
*I* don't seem to think it's a big dirty secret - the couple who got
married said they don't want any one to know they were married earlier
this year - they want everyone to think that the wedding next year is
their official wedding! Their family and one close friend are the only
ones who know about the first wedding.
They're the ones to ask about why anyone would care!
My question was what is the best way to document this in my genealogy
program? Should I respect their wishes and document the second
ceremony or document their first ceremony as their wedding date?
Should I put in the second ceremony as the date with a private
notation of the real date?
Sherry
--
Toledo,Ohio
-
cecilia
Re: Two weddings
Charles Ellson wrote:
My brother married in Spain. The marriage could only be "recorded",
rather than registered, in England - the General Register Office
would keep a copy of the Spanish documentation and produce a copy if
details of the marriage were required.
Having a desire to have documentation in his own language, he asked if
they could marry again in England. The registrar said that was fine,
if he wanted to waste money.
So ceremony registered in England is the second ceremony. The joint
status of the bride and groom was something along the lines of
"previously went through a form of marriage on .... in the district of
...., Spain".
[...]
ITYF a general requirement in most jurisdictions is that the parties
to a marriage must be "free to marry" which a married couple are not,
so the event to be validly recorded would be the first one as the
second one in most cases would be void.
My brother married in Spain. The marriage could only be "recorded",
rather than registered, in England - the General Register Office
would keep a copy of the Spanish documentation and produce a copy if
details of the marriage were required.
Having a desire to have documentation in his own language, he asked if
they could marry again in England. The registrar said that was fine,
if he wanted to waste money.
So ceremony registered in England is the second ceremony. The joint
status of the bride and groom was something along the lines of
"previously went through a form of marriage on .... in the district of
...., Spain".
-
somebody
Re: Two weddings
and Sherry made the comment...
Perplexing question. If you can keep the correct date hidden in the meantime,
then do so. It may salve a problem or two later.
When my grandfather remarried, he wanted it to be kept secret for some reason
that I haven't found out yet. In my research, I found the date when they did
get married through a decendent of the second wife. When I relayed the
information to other members of my g-father's side of the family, they replied
that they didn't know that he had remarried. (my g-father remarried in '55).
I do know that they did, because Mom found out it at the time and hinted that
she knew. Which my g-father wanted to know how she knew but Mom wouldn't tell
him.
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
Perplexing question. If you can keep the correct date hidden in the meantime,
then do so. It may salve a problem or two later.
When my grandfather remarried, he wanted it to be kept secret for some reason
that I haven't found out yet. In my research, I found the date when they did
get married through a decendent of the second wife. When I relayed the
information to other members of my g-father's side of the family, they replied
that they didn't know that he had remarried. (my g-father remarried in '55).
I do know that they did, because Mom found out it at the time and hinted that
she knew. Which my g-father wanted to know how she knew but Mom wouldn't tell
him.
-
Michael Kenefick
Re: Two weddings
In Famy Tree Maker you can have two dates. Make one the primary, the
other secondary. Add a note as to why there are two dates.
Mike in Ohio
Sherry wrote:
other secondary. Add a note as to why there are two dates.
Mike in Ohio
Sherry wrote:
Interesting problem. The couple was married earlier this year in one
state - top secret and only a select few know they were married,
everyone else thinks they're just living together - but they're also
getting married next year in another state. The reason for the first
marriage is so she could get on his benefits from his job (she didn't
have any insurance). This was a simple wedding at the home of her
sister with just family present. The reason for the second marriage is
because her dream wedding is a DisneyWorld wedding. They want me to
use the second wedding as their official wedding date but I think that
the one this year is the official wedding.
I'm not sure that they really can get legally married in another state
if they're already married in a different state. Of course, to go
through with a wedding, you need to have a marriage license, but I'm
sure the planners know it's a 2nd wedding and maybe are just playing
along with it. My suggestion was why not let people know they're
married and just have a renewal of vows at DW? That could be every bit
romantic as a wedding!
Anyway, the big question is - what should I do for documentation of the
wedding???? I wonder if it will ever slip out that they were already
married when they got married!
Some people I've talked with said that they've run into the situation
with kids geting married secretly and not telling anyone so they can
have a bigger wedding later. Too weird.
Thanks,
Sherry