1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

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R. Scanlon

1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 12 sep 2006 22:52:22

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts. Since the
engraving is in English, I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but
this is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made
this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or
American funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm a
complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish practice in
particular.

Thanks!

Joe Pessarra

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 13 sep 2006 00:38:57

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in message
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net...
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts. Since the
engraving is in English, I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but
this is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made
this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or
American funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm a
complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish practice in
particular.

Thanks!

Cannot answer you about the coffin plate, but are you sure you have the
correct family? Here is data from Castle Garden immigration site at
http://www.castlegarden.org/

Here is the 1895 data from Castle Garden that you have given us.

Valentine Cerba Occupation Laborer
Age 40
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 8 Jun 1895
Origin Germany
Port Liverpool
Last Residence U
Destination Ma
Plan Unknown
Ship Lucania
Passage Unknown

Marianna Cerba Occupation Child, Youngster
Age 8
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 8 Jun 1895
Origin Germany
Port Liverpool
Last Residence U
Destination Ma
Plan Unknown
Ship Lucania
Passage Unknown

Here is another set of data from Castle Garden, which is very similar for
1888. The ages would be the best clue as to which is correct, but it looks
like a similar family that all came to the US together.

Walentin Cerba Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Antonia Cerba Occupation Wife
Age 25
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Marie Cerba Occupation Infant
Age 9 months
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Good luck on your search.

Joe in Texas
..

Christopher Jahn

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Christopher Jahn » 13 sep 2006 01:19:32

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.



--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

A man with one watch knows what time it is--with two watches he
is never sure.

Alida Spry

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Alida Spry » 13 sep 2006 02:29:10

"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136...
"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.



Chris,

Regarding the country of origin. Posen (or Poznan) is in present-day Poland
but it was part of Prussia and there were many Germans living there. They
would have been "Polish" by nationality but of German ethnicity so that info
in the census is accurate.

Sorry I don't know anything about the coffin plate but I would say the
question is not whether it's a Polish custom but more a question of whether
it's a German custom. I don't know the answer but perhaps someone else
will.

Hope that helps a bit.

Alida

Joe Pessarra

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 13 sep 2006 04:29:46

"Alida Spry" <a_spry@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:G9JNg.3537$xh3.1939@trnddc01...
"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136...
"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.



Chris,

Regarding the country of origin. Posen (or Poznan) is in present-day
Poland
but it was part of Prussia and there were many Germans living there. They
would have been "Polish" by nationality but of German ethnicity so that
info
in the census is accurate.

Sorry I don't know anything about the coffin plate but I would say the
question is not whether it's a Polish custom but more a question of
whether
it's a German custom. I don't know the answer but perhaps someone else
will.

Hope that helps a bit.

Alida



I wonder about the dates myself, just as Chris does.

Castle Garden at http://www.castlegarden.org shows the following
immigrations.

Walentin Cerba Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Marie Cerba Occupation Infant
Age 9 months
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Might these be your people? Maybe you can tell by the ages.

Could not find a Romenchitza in Germany or elsewhere. Looks more Polish or
Russian. Probably mispelled by the typist from the written record.

There is a Romschuetz, Germany, and a Rumstikha, Nizhegorodskaya, Russia.
Just guesswork, though.

Good luck.

Joe in Texas

Adalbertus

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Adalbertus » 13 sep 2006 10:17:31

R. Scanlon napisal(a):
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but
this is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made
this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or
American funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy?

Spelling of the name includes mistake, because correct name in Polish
is "ANTONINA".
Coffin plate like this are nailed at the cross which put up on the
grave directly funeral (before headstone is builded).
142 people name Cerba live in Poland today - 85 in Poznan region.

Wojtek from Gdansk

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 13 sep 2006 14:38:47

In article <TSHNg.13959$xk3.11335@dukeread07>,
"Joe Pessarra" <joepessarra@cox.net> wrote:

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in message
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net...
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts. Since the
engraving is in English, I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but
this is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made
this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or
American funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm a
complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish practice in
particular.

Thanks!

Cannot answer you about the coffin plate, but are you sure you have the
correct family? Here is data from Castle Garden immigration site at
http://www.castlegarden.org/

Here is the 1895 data from Castle Garden that you have given us.

Valentine Cerba Occupation Laborer
Age 40
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 8 Jun 1895
Origin Germany
Port Liverpool
Last Residence U
Destination Ma
Plan Unknown
Ship Lucania
Passage Unknown

Marianna Cerba Occupation Child, Youngster
Age 8
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 8 Jun 1895
Origin Germany
Port Liverpool
Last Residence U
Destination Ma
Plan Unknown
Ship Lucania
Passage Unknown

Here is another set of data from Castle Garden, which is very similar for
1888. The ages would be the best clue as to which is correct, but it looks
like a similar family that all came to the US together.

Walentin Cerba Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Antonia Cerba Occupation Wife
Age 25
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Marie Cerba Occupation Infant
Age 9 months
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Good luck on your search.

Joe in Texas
.


[sound of hand slapping forehead]

Ahh! Now I see; it's so obvious when it's right in front of you! Thanks,
Joe. I found the 1895 event at ellisisland.org some time ago, and had
not checked Castle Garden. The ages in both the 1895 and 1888 events are
within a year of what I would expect, so I am now thinking that /both/
are applicable. Family lore has it that other unspecified members came
over; perhaps the second trip was involved in that. The 1888 set
certainly matches the census immigration dates better. It also
eliminates the problem of an English coffin plate from Poland -
Antoniana died here, rather than in the old country, which I had assumed
- no esoteric funeral customs required.

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 13 sep 2006 14:46:51

In article <Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136>,
Christopher Jahn <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote:

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.


Thanks, Christopher. My data are getting shakier even as I write. I had
not seen those passenger lists, and there's certainly a potential fit.
Joe Pessarra found an 1888 family at Castle Garden that looks pretty
good, too. At the very least, I've been duly warned that Valentine Cerba
is not so unusual a name as I had thought.

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 13 sep 2006 14:52:28

In article <G9JNg.3537$xh3.1939@trnddc01>,
"Alida Spry" <a_spry@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136...
"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.



Chris,

Regarding the country of origin. Posen (or Poznan) is in present-day Poland
but it was part of Prussia and there were many Germans living there. They
would have been "Polish" by nationality but of German ethnicity so that info
in the census is accurate.

Sorry I don't know anything about the coffin plate but I would say the
question is not whether it's a Polish custom but more a question of whether
it's a German custom. I don't know the answer but perhaps someone else
will.

Hope that helps a bit.

Alida


Thank you, Alida. The problem of the coffin plate goes away if, as
others have pointed out to me, the immigration occurred earlier than I
thought and Antoniona died here rather than in Poland.

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 13 sep 2006 15:04:14

In article <vgLNg.13986$xk3.9081@dukeread07>,
"Joe Pessarra" <joepessarra@cox.net> wrote:

"Alida Spry" <a_spry@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:G9JNg.3537$xh3.1939@trnddc01...

"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136...
"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba /
Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in
1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro,
Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in English, I speculate
that it was done in the U.S., but this is at least 3 years
after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made this long after
the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or American
funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy? I apologize if these are naive questions, but I'm
a complete newbie to coffin plates in general and Polish
practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910 census
indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro immigrated from
Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920 enumerations list it as
1890. Both also list his country of origin as Germany, but the
1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a Valenty
Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the CALIFORNIA.
They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from Austria on the
SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.



Chris,

Regarding the country of origin. Posen (or Poznan) is in present-day
Poland
but it was part of Prussia and there were many Germans living there. They
would have been "Polish" by nationality but of German ethnicity so that
info
in the census is accurate.

Sorry I don't know anything about the coffin plate but I would say the
question is not whether it's a Polish custom but more a question of
whether
it's a German custom. I don't know the answer but perhaps someone else
will.

Hope that helps a bit.

Alida



I wonder about the dates myself, just as Chris does.

Castle Garden at http://www.castlegarden.org shows the following
immigrations.

Walentin Cerba Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Marie Cerba Occupation Infant
Age 9 months
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Might these be your people? Maybe you can tell by the ages.

Could not find a Romenchitza in Germany or elsewhere. Looks more Polish or
Russian. Probably mispelled by the typist from the written record.

There is a Romschuetz, Germany, and a Rumstikha, Nizhegorodskaya, Russia.
Just guesswork, though.

Good luck.

Joe in Texas

Those sure do look like my people! My only lame excuse for not finding
them is that I originally found my 1895 group at ellisisland.org, before
the Castle garden web site came online.

Thank you for checking out Romenchitza. I slogged through the maps at
the Poznan Project (<http://www.discovering-roots.pl/poznan_project/>)
with no instant success. Time to learn a little Polish pronunciation.

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 13 sep 2006 15:59:27

In article <1158139051.661244.105920@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Adalbertus" <wojbeszcz@wp.pl> wrote:

R. Scanlon napisal(a):
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but
this is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be made
this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is there a Polish or
American funeral custom that has another explanation for this
discrepancy?

Spelling of the name includes mistake, because correct name in Polish
is "ANTONINA".
Coffin plate like this are nailed at the cross which put up on the
grave directly funeral (before headstone is builded).
142 people name Cerba live in Poland today - 85 in Poznan region.

Wojtek from Gdansk

Thank you, Wojtek - this is a wealth of information. I appreciate it.

I will have to check my transcription of the name; I may have been
mistaken. It's possible the engraver made a mistake. It certainly isn't
the first time a name has been misspelled in genealogy, but it's useful
to know now what the name should be.

Thanks for the explanation of coffin plate usage - it makes sense that
the plate would be removed from a temporary structure, and kept as a
memento.

There are now no Cerbas in Massachusetts, although there are a few in
other states, many of whom seem to be Hispanic.

Joe Pessarra

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 13 sep 2006 16:34:21

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in message
news:rscanlon-C8C099.09412813092006@news.verizon.net...
In article <TSHNg.13959$xk3.11335@dukeread07>,
"Joe Pessarra" <joepessarra@cox.net> wrote:

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in message
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net...
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by
10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from
Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts.

Cannot answer you about the coffin plate, but are you sure you have the
correct family? Here is data from Castle Garden immigration site at
http://www.castlegarden.org/

Here is another set of data from Castle Garden, which is very similar
for
1888. The ages would be the best clue as to which is correct, but it
looks
like a similar family that all came to the US together.

Walentin Cerba Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Antonia Cerba Occupation Wife
Age 25
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Marie Cerba Occupation Infant
Age 9 months
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Apr 1888
Origin Germany
Port Bremen & Southampton
Last Residence Romenchitza
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Saale
Passage Unknown

Good luck on your search.

Joe in Texas
.


[sound of hand slapping forehead]

Ahh! Now I see; it's so obvious when it's right in front of you! Thanks,
Joe. I found the 1895 event at ellisisland.org some time ago, and had
not checked Castle Garden. The ages in both the 1895 and 1888 events are
within a year of what I would expect, so I am now thinking that /both/
are applicable. Family lore has it that other unspecified members came
over; perhaps the second trip was involved in that. The 1888 set
certainly matches the census immigration dates better. It also
eliminates the problem of an English coffin plate from Poland -
Antoniana died here, rather than in the old country, which I had assumed
- no esoteric funeral customs required.

Don't be too hard on yourself. And good luck on finding Romenchitza. Will
do some more looking myself.

And there are more Cerba listings on Castle Garden. Check them all out.

Joe

"I love it when a plan comes together"-
Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith of the
A-Team, perfectly played by
George Peppard

Christopher Jahn

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Christopher Jahn » 13 sep 2006 23:49:53

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-9D2DE4.09493213092006@news.verizon.net:

In article <Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136>,
Christopher Jahn <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote:

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba
/ Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and
had a daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated
in 1895 from Pozen Province, Poland, ending up in N.
Attleboro, Massachusetts. Since the engraving is in
English, I speculate that it was done in the U.S., but this
is at least 3 years after Antoniana died. Would a plate be
made this long after the funeral, as a commemorative? Is
there a Polish or American funeral custom that has another
explanation for this discrepancy? I apologize if these are
naive questions, but I'm a complete newbie to coffin plates
in general and Polish practice in particular.

Thanks!


How solid is your data for the immigration date? The 1910
census indcates that Valentin Cerba of North Attleboro
immigrated from Germany in 1888. Both the 1900 and 1920
enumerations list it as 1890. Both also list his country of
origin as Germany, but the 1920 census is "Ger/polish".

New York passenger records indicate the arrival in of a
Valenty Serba of Hamburg, Germany on April 26, 1889, on the
CALIFORNIA. They also list Valentyn Szczerba, arriving from
Austria on the SORRENTO on March 14, 1891.


Thanks, Christopher. My data are getting shakier even as I
write. I had not seen those passenger lists, and there's
certainly a potential fit. Joe Pessarra found an 1888 family
at Castle Garden that looks pretty good, too. At the very
least, I've been duly warned that Valentine Cerba is not so
unusual a name as I had thought.

Joe's info fits like a glove. It matches the first census, and
accounts for all the family members.

--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

How do you make a cat go moo? Ask it "Does a dog have the Buddha-
nature?"

Joe Pessarra

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 14 sep 2006 00:47:38

"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns983DBFC229144xjahn@216.196.97.136...
"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-9D2DE4.09493213092006@news.verizon.net:

In article <Xns983CCEF584E4Bxjahn@216.196.97.136>,
Christopher Jahn <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote:

"R. Scanlon" <rscanlon@naisp.net> wrote in
news:rscanlon-0DB454.17550312092006@news.verizon.net:

I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in.
(15 cm by 10 cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side
that look used. Engraved in the center is "Antoniana Cerba
/ Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."
(Message snipped)


Joe's info fits like a glove. It matches the first census, and
accounts for all the family members.

--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Thanks Christopher. I didn't check out the census info to see if it
matched.

Joe
--
"I love it when a plan comes together"-
Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith of the
A-Team, perfectly played by
George Peppard

ecunningham

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av ecunningham » 14 sep 2006 01:58:39

R. Scanlon wrote:
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts.

Scanlon: Well to reinforce what others have told you, Cerba & Wilga
had a daughter, Wladyslawa, in Cambridge in 1891.
Have you considered the possibility that he took Marie back to Poland
after Antonina's death to see her grandparents and possibly to search
for a new wife and then returned? Must confess, I didn't read all the
manifest info provided to you by others.
BTW, Marie married James Reynolds, 01 September 1909, right??
ecunningham@att.net

R. Scanlon

Re: 1890s coffin plate, Poland/USA?

Legg inn av R. Scanlon » 14 sep 2006 15:53:38

In article <4508A93F.7050402@att.net>,
ecunningham <ecunningham@att.net> wrote:

R. Scanlon wrote:
I have a coffin plate, silver, approximately 6 in. by 4 in. (15 cm by 10
cm), oval, with small nail holes on each side that look used. Engraved
in the center is "Antoniana Cerba / Died July 29, 1892 / Aged 28 yrs."

Antoniana (WILGA) CERBA was married to Valentine CERBA, and had a
daughter Marie in 1886. Valentine and Marie emigrated in 1895 from Pozen
Province, Poland, ending up in N. Attleboro, Massachusetts.

Scanlon: Well to reinforce what others have told you, Cerba & Wilga
had a daughter, Wladyslawa, in Cambridge in 1891.
Have you considered the possibility that he took Marie back to Poland
after Antonina's death to see her grandparents and possibly to search
for a new wife and then returned? Must confess, I didn't read all the
manifest info provided to you by others.
BTW, Marie married James Reynolds, 01 September 1909, right??
ecunningham@att.net


With invaluable help from Alida, Christopher, ecunningham,
Joe, and Wojtek I now know the Polish usage of coffin
plates, and have my CERBA family in the USA 7 years earlier
than I had believed, in a place I never knew they had lived
(Cambridge, Massachusetts), a lead on their town of origin,
and found Antoniana's 1892 death and the 1891 birth and
death of a child I didn't know existed - a profitable and
gratifying week indeed. Thank you all!

Ray

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