Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Chris Shearer Cooper

Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Chris Shearer Cooper » 05 sep 2006 21:22:14

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

Thanks!
Chris

Dick Stephens

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Dick Stephens » 05 sep 2006 21:44:47

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...
I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm
talking 95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could
explain it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm
looking for a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern
Germany?

Thanks!
Chris



We had a neighbor who was of Czech heritage, and she spoke that way with the
first "V" sound of a word. She said "wegetables" and called one of her
neighbors "Wivian".

Dick Stephens

Huntersglenn

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Huntersglenn » 05 sep 2006 22:03:31

In answer to question #1, my best friend remembers her grandmother not
only speaking with a heavy German accent, but also speaking German
fluently. We were both surprised when I started researching her family
and found that not only was my best friend's grandmother born in
Illinois, but her parents - who were the immigrants, had married in
Illinois. I later found out that it was a common practice in immigrant
communities to send the children to a school that taught using their
native language, which probably accounted for Bertha having been
educated, yet speaking with a heavy accent (hearing it at home and
school) and speaking German (again, hearing it at home and school).

So, yes, a second generation immigrant could have had a strong accent.

Hope that helps,
Cathy

Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

Thanks!
Chris


Joe Pessarra

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Joe Pessarra » 05 sep 2006 22:07:49

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...
I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").


If you give us some names and dates, we might be able to help you better
direct your search. Even estimates on dates, locations, and names would
help.

As the old German immigrant said, after a few months in the US, studying
English, and in answer to the question as to how his English was coming
along,, "Really not too bad, but I keep getting my wees and wubbleoos mixed
up!"

Joe in Texas

Alida Spry

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Alida Spry » 05 sep 2006 22:20:53

"Dick Stephens" <Hootman2@unspammedcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:v9ednbpchpBcfGDZnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...
I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm
talking 95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could
explain it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm
looking for a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what
part of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern
Germany?

Thanks!
Chris



We had a neighbor who was of Czech heritage, and she spoke that way with
the first "V" sound of a word. She said "wegetables" and called one of
her neighbors "Wivian".

Dick Stephens


I agree Czech is possible and also Polish or some other Eastern European
background. Some Russians say Wodka for example.

I would say not German because German does not have a letter for our W
sound. Their W is our V and their V is like an F.

I suggest you take Joe's advice and post some info so we can trace your
wife's grandfather to be sure. I'm online now and I'd be happy to look him
up for you.


Alida (second generation Ukrainian)

Kurt

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Kurt » 05 sep 2006 23:02:24

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...
I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very
mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for
'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or
his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a
second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm
talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could
explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm
looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in
what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern
Germany?


In the Scandinavian countries (at least Sweden) we doesn´t really
differ in the pronounciation between W or V.
Names that today normally is spelled with a "V" was before 1900
normally spelled with a "W".

Kurt F

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 05 sep 2006 23:07:25

My Russian aunt said - "its time to vash the wynel"
again....
(wash the vynel)

take care
Liz



On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:22:14 -0600, in alt.genealogy "Chris
Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote :

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

Thanks!
Chris

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 05 sep 2006 23:30:05

"Alida Spry" wrote
I agree Czech is possible and also Polish or some other Eastern European
background. Some Russians say Wodka for example.

That is right... The russian alphabet has only one letter for either "w" and
"v". Looks like our "B". That is why "Vodka" is spelled "Wodka" in german,
but pronounced in about the same way. The real differences between "W" and
"V" really only occur in English language.

I would say not German because German does not have a letter for our W
sound. Their W is our V and their V is like an F.

I agree... Most likely eastern European Origin. Like slavic languages.
Bulgaric, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, etc.

I suggest you take Joe's advice and post some info so we can trace your
wife's grandfather to be sure. I'm online now and I'd be happy to look
him up for you.

Alida (second generation Ukrainian)

Ukrainian should have the same letter "B" either for "V" and "W" than
Russian has, although both writings aren't really equal. I know, that there
are some differences. In writing the capital, Kiev (in German it is spelled
"Kiew", by the way), for example... but the last letter is the same ;-)

Tassilo

Alida Spry

OT: Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Alida Spry » 05 sep 2006 23:39:29

"Tassilo S. Schweiger" <taschwei@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:44fdfa69$0$26947$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
"Alida Spry" wrote
I agree Czech is possible and also Polish or some other Eastern European
background. Some Russians say Wodka for example.

That is right... The russian alphabet has only one letter for either "w"
and "v". Looks like our "B". That is why "Vodka" is spelled "Wodka" in
german, but pronounced in about the same way. The real differences between
"W" and "V" really only occur in English language.

I would say not German because German does not have a letter for our W
sound. Their W is our V and their V is like an F.

I agree... Most likely eastern European Origin. Like slavic languages.
Bulgaric, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, etc.

I suggest you take Joe's advice and post some info so we can trace your
wife's grandfather to be sure. I'm online now and I'd be happy to look
him up for you.

Alida (second generation Ukrainian)

Ukrainian should have the same letter "B" either for "V" and "W" than
Russian has, although both writings aren't really equal. I know, that
there are some differences. In writing the capital, Kiev (in German it is
spelled "Kiew", by the way), for example... but the last letter is the
same ;-)

Tassilo


Hi Tassilo,

May I ask the origin of your name? I don't believe I've ever seen it
before.

Names and languages are very interesting to me.

Thanks,

Alida ("little winged one" in Spanish or a form of Adelheid in Germanic)

mickg

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av mickg » 06 sep 2006 00:05:50

<Snip

The real differences between "W" and > "V" really only occur in English
language.

<snip>
I believe you'll find the origin of the English style W to be in
P-Celtic. The language of the English prior to the Romans. Varieties of
which are Welsh, Cornish and the language of Brittany. Welsh being the
only current survivor as a living language. W is a vowel in effect
double u.

Just conclusion on my part I can't verify it.


MickG

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 06 sep 2006 00:18:20

"Alida Spry" wrote
Hi Tassilo,

Hi Alida

May I ask the origin of your name? I don't believe I've ever seen it
before.

Of course... My name is Bavarian origin. Tassilo III used to be the last
Duke of the House of the "Agilolfinger", who was removed by Charlemagne...

There is an article...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassilo_III

I am not quiet pleased, what is written there about Tassilo III, the real
reasons for Charlemagne have been others to remove Tassilo, but at least,
the origin of my name is mentioned there ;-)

For the exact origin of that name, there are several theories. One says:
Taxus, which means yew (a tree), if I remember correctly, and there, the
"Tasso" appears, "Tassilo" should mean "little yew" then. That is sayed to
be of ancient german origin. But the word "taxus" itself is latin... And
yet, I wonder, why, even in ancient Rome names like "Torquato Tasso" occur,
so, even older than the ancient german languages exists...

Names and languages are very interesting to me.

Yes. There are some very interesting relations in several languages, that
you might get a thought, that all languages really have one and the same
origin.

Thanks,

:-) You're welcome.

Alida ("little winged one" in Spanish or a form of Adelheid in Germanic)

In Spanish? Really? My Spanish is rather poor... Adelheid in German means:
"of noble being"... "Adel" or "edel" is the same origin... meaning "noble",
and "heit" means something like "social position". Difficult to find the
right word in English.

If you speak German, too:
http://wiki.genealogy.net/wiki/Adelheid_(Vorname)
there, your name is mentioned as a variation, too.

Tassilo

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 06 sep 2006 00:23:00

"mickg" wrote
I believe you'll find the origin of the English style W to be in P-Celtic.
The language of the English prior to the Romans. Varieties of which are
Welsh, Cornish and the language of Brittany. Welsh being the only current
survivor as a living language. W is a vowel in effect double u.

Yes, that may be correct... There are several forms of languages, where
these letters don't even exist. There is only "U", and then, a closed "OU",
making it sound like "W". I wondered, but that might be a good hint to look
for that languages, which, in fact, are even older than Latin.

Just conclusion on my part I can't verify it.

Anyway, an assumption, that is worth thinking about...

MickG

Tassilo

Gjest

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Gjest » 06 sep 2006 01:04:02

My friend's grandmother (1898-1991) was Jewish from Dolina in Galicia
(they emigrated about 1910). Its a confusing area geographically and
historically - was part of Poland, also full of Ruthenians, Ukrainians
and Belarussians, then part of Austria, then part of the USSR.

Anyway, She said Ws for Vs - lke Las Wegas, or shake her finger at her
granddaughter and myself when we were university students and tell us
we were Werry, Werry foolish girls. I know she spoke Yiddish, but I
think also Polish.

Mary

John Zillwood

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av John Zillwood » 06 sep 2006 01:06:34

Alida Spry wrote:
<snip>
I would say not German because German does not have a letter for our W
sound. Their W is our V and their V is like an F.
snip


A late friend of ours, an immigrant from Germany, spent ages looking in the
Yellow Pages for a Welder but couldn't find any listed in the "V"s :-)

--
John Zillwood
john@zillwood.com

Allen

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Allen » 06 sep 2006 02:22:47

Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

Thanks!
Chris



I knew one person of Czech descent, but at least third-generation
American, who had that same trait. We worked with a woman named LaVern,
who at one time was having trouble with her television set. One morning
he asked "LaWern, have you gotten your teewee fixed yet?"
Allen

Joe Roberts

(OT) Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Joe Roberts » 06 sep 2006 03:03:58

These two things may be utterly unhelpful to the original poster, but I
can't resist passing them on (and it's marked "OT" in the subject line).

Old joke:

A tourist is walking on Waikiki Beach and sees a well-tanned fellow
walking toward him, sporting a lei and Hawaiian shirt. Taking the fellow to
be a native Hawaiian, the tourist approaches him and asks: "Excuse me, sir,
but I have always wondered about this. How do you really pronounce the name
of your country? Is it 'Hawaii', or is it 'Havaii'?" The chap replies,
"It's 'Havaii'". The tourist says, "Thank you." The fellow replies,
"You're velcome."

True story:

As a kid in school, I was in a 'music appreciation' class. The teacher
gave us a homework assignment (and she gave it verbally): "Write a report
about the life and music of Richard Wagner." I looked all through the "V"
pages in our family's encyclopedia: Va..., Vo.... Never found him.

Joe

Steve Hayes

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 06 sep 2006 05:21:59

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:22:14 -0600, "Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net>
wrote:

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

I remember hearing someone from East Germany (the former DDR) speaking about
having a "wigil" (vigil).



--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 06 sep 2006 10:12:24

"John Zillwood" wrote
A late friend of ours, an immigrant from Germany, spent ages looking in
the Yellow Pages for a Welder but couldn't find any listed in the "V"s :-)

Welder? Vice versa, American "Velder" could not be found in Germany very
often, but "Felder" is a very common name in Germany. Then, you probably
find too much for a research :-)

Tassilo

Henry & Carolyn

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Henry & Carolyn » 06 sep 2006 13:44:40

Now to put another spin on this thread....
I once worked with a pharmacist from India. For "verbal" prescription she
would say "werbal". And when she bought a new house she was "mooing" lol.
So people from India also have trouble with the v's!

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...
I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

Allen

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Allen » 06 sep 2006 14:37:40

Henry & Carolyn wrote:

Now to put another spin on this thread....
I once worked with a pharmacist from India. For "verbal" prescription she
would say "werbal". And when she bought a new house she was "mooing" lol.
So people from India also have trouble with the v's!

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12frn63723bgf69@corp.supernews.com...

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").





Japanese-as-first-language speakers seem to have this problem also. I
have a Japanese friend who has been in the US for nearly 20 years (she
is a writer who first came here to learn to write in English) and
sometimes I have a very hard time understanding her when she is speaking
words with the consonants L, R, or V. Another friend who was stationed
in Japan shortly after WWII told me that the Americans enjoyed teaching
Japanese to say "revolver". I can imagine the problems people native to
other countries would have trying to understand me; for instance, there
is no way that I can get the proper Spanish pronunciation of the Sp
anish "rr".
Allen

Ron Bass writ backwards

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Ron Bass writ backwards » 06 sep 2006 22:43:25

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:22:14 -0600, "Chris Shearer Cooper"
<chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote:

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

Is it possible that your wife's grandfather was from London or the
South-East of England. Charles Dickens, a very perceptive student of
19th century English usage, has the character Sam Weller in Pickwick
Papers routinely make just the substitutions that you describe.

Sam Weller quotes showing this include:

". . . out vith it, as the father said to the child, wen he swallowed
a farden."

"He wants you particklar; no one else'll do, as the Devil's private
secretary said ven he fetched avay Doctor Faustus."

"Proud o' the title, as the Living Skellinton said, ven they show'd
him."

"If you walley my precious life don't upset me, as the gentl'm'n said
to the driver when they was a carryin' him to Tyburn."

". . . I think he's the wictim o' connubiality, as Blue Beard's
domestic chaplain said, with a tear of pity, ven he buried him."

"Werry glad to see you, indeed, and hope our acquaintance may be a
long 'un, as the gen'l'm'n said to the fi' pun' note."

-Ron

Robert Stonehouse

Re: Saying 'W' instead of 'V'

Legg inn av Robert Stonehouse » 06 sep 2006 23:05:30

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:22:14 -0600, "Chris Shearer Cooper"
<chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote:

I'm still trying to track down my wife's grandfather, a very mysterious
character on whom we have very little data ...

One thing his children remember clearly, is him substituting 'W' for 'V'
("Eat your Wegetables").

1) Do y'all agree with me, that he is either not born in the USA, or his
parents were not born in the USA? I can't imagine a second-generation
immigrant still having that kind of accent. I should say here, I'm talking
95% probability. Obviously there are other situations that could explain
it - speech impediment, being raised by other family, etc. I'm looking for
a likelihood so I know where to focus my research ...

2) What does this tell me about his parents? In other words, in what part
of the world do they not have a hard 'V' sound? Austria? Eastern Germany?

I remember a joint exercise with Hamburg office, when our
lead person was called Vic and the principal file was the
Vendor Master. These always came out in conversation as Wick
and the Wendor Master.

Alternatively, think of Sam Weller (Pickwick Papers) who
pronounced his name Veller. In the famous case of Bardell v.
Pickwick he was required to state and spell his name (since
the judge knew what confusion Cockney pronunciation could
cause) and his father shouted from the public gallery 'Put
it down a wee, My Lord, put it down a wee!' Of course, he
had it wrong - we have the author's word for that.

--
Robert Stonehouse
To mail me, replace invalid with uk. Inconvenience regretted

Svar

Gå tilbake til «alt.genealogy»