Can this woman be 65?

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Chris Shearer Cooper

Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Chris Shearer Cooper » 25 aug 2006 03:47:09

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that belonged to
one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct. 30,
1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

It seems to make sense that my great-aunt would paste some memorabilia of
her mother in her book upon her mother's death, so my current theory is this
.... the young woman is my great-aunt (who would have been either 21 or 28 in
1917, depending on which great-aunt owned the book) and the older woman (the
first picture) is my great-grandmother. The two pictures are showing the
similarity (smile, cock of head) between deceased mother and owner of book
(or sister of owner of book).

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these pictures, and
people on this newsgroup have concluded that both pictures were taken in the
1910-1919 kind of timeframe, probably around 1915 (so the picture of the
young woman isn't my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in
1852).

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than 60
....

There are no other pictures of my great-grandmother that we can compare
against.

Thanks!
Chris

Liz_in_Calgary

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Liz_in_Calgary » 25 aug 2006 04:26:52

Hmmm... the woman in the picture is definatly younger than
50 , it could be that upon her mothers death she was
considering her own mortality, and the 2 pictures are the
same person.

take care
Liz





On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:47:09 -0600, in alt.genealogy "Chris
Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote :

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that belonged to
one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct. 30,
1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

It seems to make sense that my great-aunt would paste some memorabilia of
her mother in her book upon her mother's death, so my current theory is this
... the young woman is my great-aunt (who would have been either 21 or 28 in
1917, depending on which great-aunt owned the book) and the older woman (the
first picture) is my great-grandmother. The two pictures are showing the
similarity (smile, cock of head) between deceased mother and owner of book
(or sister of owner of book).

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these pictures, and
people on this newsgroup have concluded that both pictures were taken in the
1910-1919 kind of timeframe, probably around 1915 (so the picture of the
young woman isn't my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in
1852).

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than 60
...

There are no other pictures of my great-grandmother that we can compare
against.

Thanks!
Chris

Christopher Jahn

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Christopher Jahn » 25 aug 2006 05:09:15

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in
news:12esp5e6vm5vn75@corp.supernews.com:

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book
that belonged to one of my great-aunts, we found this picture
...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother
circled (Oct. 30, 1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my
great-grandmother * a picture of a young woman
http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these
pictures, and people on this newsgroup have concluded that
both pictures were taken in the 1910-1919 kind of timeframe,
probably around 1915 (so the picture of the young woman isn't
my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in 1852).

It could be a little later-
http://www.departments.dsu.edu/dsuarchi ... 0small.jpg

See also:
http://www.ecommcode.com/hoover/hoovero ... 918-14.jpg
http://www.archivesprojects.homestead.c ... a-Lean.jpg




This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65
years old. Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood
of that? * Is the clothing something one would expect for a
mature woman? * Same for the hat?

Here's a page with women wearing similar hats to the one in the picture:
http://www.mwa.govt.nz/women-in-nz/timeline/1920.html
one dated 1917:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pnp/ppmsc/00000/00037r.jpg

It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin,
but something about the shape of her face makes me think not a
young woman ... but in the absence of any other clues I would
have guessed more like 40 rather than 60 ...

I've gone through my own family photos to see if I can buy that
woman being 65, but I can't. I don't think the woman is even thirty.

I think both pictures are of the same woman, taken about
10 years apart.


--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

No matter how good it is, there's always better.

Warren and Paula Jo Merri

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Warren and Paula Jo Merri » 25 aug 2006 05:53:12

I formed an opinion and then asked my wife without telling her what I
thought. We were almost completely in agreement. We both thought the
picture was probably mid to later 1920's to maybe at most very early 1930's.
A couple of reasons. Unless this family was more affluent than mine I just
don't recall seeing a lot of candid photos like this showing up until
1920's, not earlier. Most earlier photos that I've seen all seem to be more
formal and professionally taken. The large white collar reminded us of more
1920's to 30's also. Most photo's of women that I've seen before 1920 seem
to be all darker colors and certainly don't have the big bold collar.

As to age thats hard to get close on but we both thought no younger than
very late 20's to mid 30's (most likely) but maybe up to late 30's. So that
puts her being born (according to our guesses) right around the turn of the
century.

And of course we have been known to be wrong but that was two independant
ideas.



"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in message
news:12esp5e6vm5vn75@corp.supernews.com...
Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that belonged
to one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct. 30,
1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Chris Shearer Cooper

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Chris Shearer Cooper » 25 aug 2006 14:20:17

Sigh.

Yeah, that's what I feared.

So what's the new theory? Why would someone paste the death date and last
prescription of her mother, and two pictures of ... her sisters (she had 3
sisters)? Or two pictures of the same sister, 10 years apart? Maybe it was
just her favorite sister?

The thing is, we have quite a few pictures of my great-aunts, and my wife
and I spent a couple hours looking at the pictures where we know which
great-aunt we're looking at, and then looking back at the pictures in the
book, and the pictures in the book don't really look like any of the
great-aunts. Definitely related - similar facial structure - but enough
differences to make us think the pictures in the book aren't any of the
great-aunts.

The great-aunt most likely to be the owner of this book was a nurse in WW1
and was probably stationed in France, so maybe the inside of this book,
rather than being a "shrine" to her mother, was a reminder of her distant
family?

Darn. I had really hoped I had uncovered a picture of my great-grandmother.

Thanks!
Chris


"Christopher Jahn" <xjahn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns982A1AF02ADAxjahn@216.196.97.136...
"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in
news:12esp5e6vm5vn75@corp.supernews.com:

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book
that belonged to one of my great-aunts, we found this picture
...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother
circled (Oct. 30, 1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my
great-grandmother * a picture of a young woman
http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these
pictures, and people on this newsgroup have concluded that
both pictures were taken in the 1910-1919 kind of timeframe,
probably around 1915 (so the picture of the young woman isn't
my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in 1852).

It could be a little later-
http://www.departments.dsu.edu/dsuarchi ... 0small.jpg

See also:
http://www.ecommcode.com/hoover/hoovero ... 918-14.jpg
http://www.archivesprojects.homestead.c ... a-Lean.jpg





This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65
years old. Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood
of that? * Is the clothing something one would expect for a
mature woman? * Same for the hat?

Here's a page with women wearing similar hats to the one in the picture:
http://www.mwa.govt.nz/women-in-nz/timeline/1920.html
one dated 1917:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pnp/ppmsc/00000/00037r.jpg

It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin,
but something about the shape of her face makes me think not a
young woman ... but in the absence of any other clues I would
have guessed more like 40 rather than 60 ...

I've gone through my own family photos to see if I can buy that
woman being 65, but I can't. I don't think the woman is even thirty.

I think both pictures are of the same woman, taken about
10 years apart.


--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

No matter how good it is, there's always better.

singhals

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av singhals » 25 aug 2006 15:55:19

picture.png -- I have a photo of my mother that is eerily similar; it
has a data of 1938-39 on it.

picture2.png -- no way that woman is 65 and I'd be surprised if she were
over 30. The clothing also appears to be ca World War II.

Pictures of the era when your ggm would have been a young girl are
distinctive -- they are either glass or on heavy pasteboard. Post-World
War I the thinner-paper photos we know today became common.


Cheryl



Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that belonged to
one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct. 30,
1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

It seems to make sense that my great-aunt would paste some memorabilia of
her mother in her book upon her mother's death, so my current theory is this
... the young woman is my great-aunt (who would have been either 21 or 28 in
1917, depending on which great-aunt owned the book) and the older woman (the
first picture) is my great-grandmother. The two pictures are showing the
similarity (smile, cock of head) between deceased mother and owner of book
(or sister of owner of book).

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these pictures, and
people on this newsgroup have concluded that both pictures were taken in the
1910-1919 kind of timeframe, probably around 1915 (so the picture of the
young woman isn't my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in
1852).

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than 60
...

There are no other pictures of my great-grandmother that we can compare
against.

Thanks!
Chris


Allen

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Allen » 25 aug 2006 16:21:04

singhals wrote:
picture.png -- I have a photo of my mother that is eerily similar; it
has a data of 1938-39 on it.

picture2.png -- no way that woman is 65 and I'd be surprised if she were
over 30. The clothing also appears to be ca World War II.

Pictures of the era when your ggm would have been a young girl are
distinctive -- they are either glass or on heavy pasteboard. Post-World
War I the thinner-paper photos we know today became common.


Cheryl



On the contrary, I have a good many pictures of my mother and her family
taken in the period 1914-1918 that match in both clothing and photo
process the ones from the original poster.
Allen

Charani

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Charani » 25 aug 2006 16:24:45

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:47:09 -0600, Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than 60

I'd say the two pictures were of the same person. The clothing is
that of a young woman, maybe late teens (Picture.png). The other
picture is when she's older, mid to late 20s perhaps, possibly a bit
older. There's no way that she's 65 though.

I saw a picture of my late grandmother with a similar kind of hat that
was taken in the late 1920s. The photo might have been taken later
than that though, depending on how affluent and how fashion conscious
they were.
--
http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/

Alida Spry

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Alida Spry » 25 aug 2006 16:50:07

"Charani" <charani@mailtonowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:44ef15fa$0$97230$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:47:09 -0600, Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but
something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in
the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than
60

I'd say the two pictures were of the same person. The clothing is
that of a young woman, maybe late teens (Picture.png). The other
picture is when she's older, mid to late 20s perhaps, possibly a bit
older. There's no way that she's 65 though.

I saw a picture of my late grandmother with a similar kind of hat that
was taken in the late 1920s. The photo might have been taken later
than that though, depending on how affluent and how fashion conscious
they were.
--
http://home.comcast.net/~webact1/Collingridge/

I disagree. I don't think that they are the same woman. The face of the
woman in the hat is thinner than the other woman. The woman in the hat has
a nose with a tip that extends down a bit further than her nostrils and the
other woman's nose does not have the same tip. They have a similar smile
but notice how the eyes of the woman in the hat are more closed as a result
of her smiling. Their eyebrows are also different. From what I can see of
the their teeth, they are different as well.

They look definitely related but not the same woman in my opinion. As for
the time period, I have no clue as I have no experience in that sort of
thing. The woman in the hat seems older than the other woman but definitely
not 65, maybe 45 at the most. The other woman looks like she's in her early
20's to me.

Alida

singhals

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av singhals » 25 aug 2006 16:50:42

Allen wrote:

singhals wrote:

picture.png -- I have a photo of my mother that is eerily similar; it
has a data of 1938-39 on it.

picture2.png -- no way that woman is 65 and I'd be surprised if she
were over 30. The clothing also appears to be ca World War II.

Pictures of the era when your ggm would have been a young girl are
distinctive -- they are either glass or on heavy pasteboard.
Post-World War I the thinner-paper photos we know today became common.


Cheryl



On the contrary, I have a good many pictures of my mother and her family
taken in the period 1914-1918 that match in both clothing and photo
process the ones from the original poster.
Allen



Thank you for the data point, then. I've never seen a pre-World War II
photo of a woman with an open collar.

Cheryl

Gjest

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2006 18:13:48

I'm with you - this woman seems to be 35-45 or so, not 65.

One thing I've observed is that middle aged and older women back then
often look much older than we expect based on their age in part because
they are aux naturel (no dyeing the gray hair, no make up, very severe
styles for hair and clothing for mature women, lots of black, no skin
products).

I have pictures of my husband's great grandmother (1847-1936) taken
around 1900 when she was only in her 50's, and I swear, she looks like
a crone. She wasn't a farm wife either (i.e. whose skin would be really
weatherbeaten and thus wrinkly with a lifetime of sun exposure).

M

Christopher Jahn

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Christopher Jahn » 26 aug 2006 00:16:49

"Chris Shearer Cooper" <chrisnews@sc3.net> wrote in
news:12etu8h9r5orfb7@corp.supernews.com:

Sigh.

Yeah, that's what I feared.

So what's the new theory? Why would someone paste the death
date and last prescription of her mother, and two pictures of
... her sisters (she had 3 sisters)? Or two pictures of the
same sister, 10 years apart? Maybe it was just her favorite
sister?

Could be. Or perhaps they are pictures of two sisters who resemble
each other closely. Perhaps all she had of her mother was that
scrap of paper, and she wanted a family memorial for herself.

In one family bible, I found a schematic of the Great Eastern, and
sillhouettes of four males of different ages - from a boy to a
grown man.

As far as I can determine, everyone in this line was a farmer.
Both lines were in the US since the early 18th century, so I do not
know why the GREAT EASTERN was of interest. All the lines had a
mix of men and women; where were their silhouettes?

My great-grandfather had an envelope of newspaper articles about
Fishers. His mother was a Fisher, and some of her aunts and uncles
had the same names as the people in the articles, but I have
basically eliminated all of them as being subjects of the articles.

My father has a drawer full of articles that interest him; they
bear no relationship to his family, his work, or his hobbies - they
just struck his fancy.

--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Disc space -- the final frontier!

Christopher Jahn

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av Christopher Jahn » 26 aug 2006 00:18:13

singhals <singhals@erols.com> wrote in
news:eMOdnRb1e73PgXLZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@rcn.net:

Allen wrote:


singhals wrote:

picture.png -- I have a photo of my mother that is eerily
similar; it has a data of 1938-39 on it.

picture2.png -- no way that woman is 65 and I'd be surprised
if she were over 30. The clothing also appears to be ca
World War II.

Pictures of the era when your ggm would have been a young
girl are distinctive -- they are either glass or on heavy
pasteboard. Post-World War I the thinner-paper photos we
know today became common.


Cheryl



On the contrary, I have a good many pictures of my mother and
her family taken in the period 1914-1918 that match in both
clothing and photo process the ones from the original poster.
Allen



Thank you for the data point, then. I've never seen a
pre-World War II photo of a woman with an open collar.

They were very popular in the 1920's.



--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Foolish little minds are consistent among hobgoblins.

L Covey

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av L Covey » 04 sep 2006 04:30:29

Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that belonged to
one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct. 30,
1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

It seems to make sense that my great-aunt would paste some memorabilia of
her mother in her book upon her mother's death, so my current theory is this
.... the young woman is my great-aunt (who would have been either 21 or 28 in
1917, depending on which great-aunt owned the book) and the older woman (the
first picture) is my great-grandmother. The two pictures are showing the
similarity (smile, cock of head) between deceased mother and owner of book
(or sister of owner of book).

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these pictures, and
people on this newsgroup have concluded that both pictures were taken in the
1910-1919 kind of timeframe, probably around 1915 (so the picture of the
young woman isn't my great-grandmother as a young girl, she was born in
1852).

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years old.
Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but something
about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman ... but in the
absence of any other clues I would have guessed more like 40 rather than 60
....

There are no other pictures of my great-grandmother that we can compare
against.

Thanks!
Chris



This is my opinion, and I am no expert. Both photos are of the same
woman. I believe it *is* possible that each photo depicts a woman of
age 65.

LC

L Covey

Re: Can this woman be 65?

Legg inn av L Covey » 04 sep 2006 04:31:37

L Covey wrote:

Chris Shearer Cooper wrote:

Pasted inside the back cover of a recently discovered book that
belonged to one of my great-aunts, we found this picture ...

http://www.sc3.net/Picture2.png

along with
* a calendar with the death date of my great-grandmother circled (Oct.
30, 1917)
* a prescription (apparently unfilled) for my great-grandmother
* a picture of a young woman http://www.sc3.net/Picture.png

It seems to make sense that my great-aunt would paste some memorabilia
of her mother in her book upon her mother's death, so my current
theory is this .... the young woman is my great-aunt (who would have
been either 21 or 28 in 1917, depending on which great-aunt owned the
book) and the older woman (the first picture) is my
great-grandmother. The two pictures are showing the similarity
(smile, cock of head) between deceased mother and owner of book (or
sister of owner of book).

I've posted questions previously about the clothing in these pictures,
and people on this newsgroup have concluded that both pictures were
taken in the 1910-1919 kind of timeframe, probably around 1915 (so the
picture of the young woman isn't my great-grandmother as a young girl,
she was born in 1852).

This theory depends on the woman in the first picture being 65 years
old. Anybody want to take any stabs as to the likelihood of that?
* Is the clothing something one would expect for a mature woman?
* Same for the hat?
It's hard to tell from the picture the condition of her skin, but
something about the shape of her face makes me think not a young woman
... but in the absence of any other clues I would have guessed more
like 40 rather than 60 ....

There are no other pictures of my great-grandmother that we can
compare against.

Thanks!
Chris



This is my opinion, and I am no expert. Both photos are of the same
woman. I believe it *is* possible that each photo depicts a woman of
age 65.

LC

An afterthought, is that the hair is dark in color, but it *is* possible.

LC

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