FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australia

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Steve Hayes

FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australia

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 27 des 2005 18:55:14

A few days ago some kind genealogists in Australia helped me to
solve a genealogical problem concerning the author Frederick
Joseph THWAITES.

I have another problem, which I hope Australian (and other)
expertise may help me to solve -- it concerns the grandmother of
Frederick Joseph THWAITES (or rather her husband).

Margaret Agnes Anne GREEN (known as Agnes) was born in Nova
Scotia, Canada, She was about 11 when her widowed father, William
GREEN, of the Commissariat, was transferred to the Cape Colony.
She married a man named WILSON, known variously as William,
Napoleon or John Wilson, allegedly in the Cape Colony, though no
record of the marriage has been found. Wilson was drowned in the
Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856, leaving her,
aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she married
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more children
(though there is some doubt about the fourth), and then he
committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March 1864.

The mystery attaches to her first two husbands, and especially
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS.

One thing I want to establish is whether he was ever in Natal
colony in the early 1850s.

Shelagh Spencer has been publishing (over the last 30 years) a
series of volumes on "British settlers in Natal", and in the D
volume there is a description of an "Alfred Francis DAWSON" who
seems to have been a mysterious character. No one knew quite
where he came from. He had two teenage children, and a wife,
Octavia, who was far too young to have borne either of them.
There were a couple of younger children by his wife Octavia, and
in the register at St Paul's Church Durban the surname DAWSON has
been deleted and FRANCIS substituted, with a note that the cor-
rect name of the family was FRANCIS.

Alfred Francis DAWSON, or Alfred Dawson FRANCIS, played a quite
prominent role in the social life of the colony, was a
churchwarden, and was also cited as co-respondent in a divorce
case, and seems to have had an eye for the ladies. His wife
Octavia drowned in a boating accident, and DAWSON disappeared
from the scene soon afterwards, leaving as mysteriously as he had
arrived. Shelagh Spencer notes that a Mr Francis left on a boat
to Port Elizabeth, accompanied by two children.

Then a couple of years later an Alfred Dawson Francis turns up in
New South Wales and marries a girl from the Eastern Cape, she a
widow, and he a widower.

His first wife appears to have been Christiana FOX, and they had
two children, Dean and Alfred. Dean was witness at his wedding to
Agnes Green. But at one of her weddings she gave her maiden name
as GLASGOW, so it seems as if there was something strange going
on (her grandmother's sister had married an artillery officer.
George GLASGOW, in Canada). On another occasion her name was
given as Agnes Eliot.

There are a couple of other indications to suggest that the
Alfred Dawson Francis of NSW may have been the same person as the
Alfred Francis Dawson of Natal. One was that one of the children
in Natal (the younger ones by Octavia) had the name FAIRFAX, and
his eldest daughter by Agnes GREEN also had FAIRFAX in her name.
There was also a family rumour (probably unreliable) that there
was a family connection to the English Gothic novelist, Horace
WALPOLE. The older children by the first wife are about the right
age for the ones who were with the family in Natal.

Anyway, what I was wondering was if there might be any evidence
anywhere to suggest that the Alfred Dawson Francis who committed
suicide in Sydney was ever in Natal. That would solve the mystery
of that mysterious character.

Another question is if there is anything to suggest what happened
to his first wife, Christiana FOX. She does not seem to have died
in Australia. Perhaps she died in the Cape Colony, or perhaps he
abandoned her there.

I hope this does not trespass too much on the generosity of
people who helped so much with the THWAITES query!

Here's a summary of the family information:

Family History System 27 Dec 2005
Merged Group Reports

NAME: GREEN, Margaret Agnes Ann, Born 8 Dec 1835 in Nova Scotia,
Died 26 Dec 1902 in Marrickville, NSW, AUS at age 67; FATHER:
GREEN, William John (Goodall), Born 28 Aug 1790, Died 9 Apr
1866 at age 75; MOTHER: GRAY, Margaret, Born 18 May 1795, Died
11 May 1844? at age 48

MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES, Walter William
McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar
1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES,
Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74;
MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane

MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide,
SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841 in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria,
Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William, Born
??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane;
Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide, because
Sydney marriage was bigamous.

MARRIED 9 Jan 1858 in Gundary, NSW, to FRANCIS, Alfred John
Dawson, Born ??? 1820? in Liverpool, England, Died 5 Mar 1864
in Sydney, NSW at age 44; FATHER: FRANCIS, John; Witness: Dean
Francis. He was a widower, she a widow, both of Bodalla.;
Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley

MARRIED ??? 1851 in Cape Town, to WILSON, William, Born ???
1823? in Camberwell, London, Died 21 Apr 1856 in Tuross River,
NSW at age 33; According to W. Wilson's death certificate, he
married Margaret Agnes Glasgow at the Cape of Good Hope at the
age of 28.

CHILDREN:
1. F WILSON, Caroline Agnes, born 20 Apr 1854 in Sydney, NSW,
died 7 Dec 1946 in North Havelock, NZ; Married 21 Jul
1874 to BRATHWAITE, Robert Ashley Warre; 8 children
2. F WILSON, Emily Eleanora, born 23 Aug 1855 in New South
Wales, died 18 Jun 1859 in Yarragee, NSW, AUS
3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar 1859 in
Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, NSW, AUS;
Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William
4. M FRANCIS, Arthur Walpole, born 7 Jan 1861 in Moruya, NSW,
died 8 May 1921 in Mariental Dist. SWA; Married 2 Nov
1887 to DONOVAN, Ida Miranda Willoughby; 3 children
5. F FRANCIS, Edith Lilian, born 20 Aug 1862 in Yarragee, NSW,
died 13 Oct 1926 in Melbourne, Vic. Aust.; Married 10 Oct
1885 to BRIDGES, William Throsby; 7 children
6. F FRANCIS, Louisa, born 3 Nov 1864 in Queanbeyan, NSW, died
18 Mar 1943 in Tenterfield, NSW; Married 24 Dec 1883 to
COWLEY, Percy; 10 children
7. F THWAITES, Margaret Jane, born 20 Mar 1872 in Sydney, died
??? in Sydney
8. M THWAITES, Walter William Alfred, born 2 Jan 1874 in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, died ???; Married 25 Jul 1895 to
SAVAGE, Emily Victoria; 6 children
9. M THWAITES, Herbert Edward, born 28 Nov 1875 in Australia,
died 28 Jan 1937 in Boksburg; Married to BRITTAIN, Motty
Adeline; 2 children
10. F THWAITES, Elizabeth, born ??? 1876, died ???

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NAME: FRANCIS, Alfred John Dawson, Born ??? 1820? in Liverpool,
England, Died 5 Mar 1864 in Sydney, NSW at age 44; FATHER:
FRANCIS, John; Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob
Cowley

MARRIED 9 Jan 1858 in Gundary, NSW, to GREEN, Margaret Agnes Ann,
Born 8 Dec 1835 in Nova Scotia, Died 26 Dec 1902 in
Marrickville, NSW, AUS at age 67; FATHER: GREEN, William John
(Goodall), Born 28 Aug 1790, Died 9 Apr 1866 at age 75;
MOTHER: GRAY, Margaret, Born 18 May 1795, Died 11 May 1844? at
age 48; Witness: Dean Francis. He was a widower, she a widow,
both of Bodalla.

MARRIED 14 Jul 1842 in Lancaster, LAN, ENG, to DEAN, Christiana
Fox

CHILDREN:
1. M FRANCIS, Dean, born ??? 1843, died ???; Married 24 Jan
1865 to BOOT, Eliza Angelina Hopkinson
2. M FRANCIS, Alfred, born ??? 1844, died ???
3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar 1859 in
Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield, NSW, AUS;
Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William
4. M FRANCIS, Arthur Walpole, born 7 Jan 1861 in Moruya, NSW,
died 8 May 1921 in Mariental Dist. SWA; Married 2 Nov
1887 to DONOVAN, Ida Miranda Willoughby; 3 children
5. F FRANCIS, Edith Lilian, born 20 Aug 1862 in Yarragee, NSW,
died 13 Oct 1926 in Melbourne, Vic. Aust.; Married 10 Oct
1885 to BRIDGES, William Throsby; 7 children
6. F FRANCIS, Louisa, born 3 Nov 1864 in Queanbeyan, NSW, died
18 Mar 1943 in Tenterfield, NSW; Married 24 Dec 1883 to
COWLEY, Percy; 10 children


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

MargM

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av MargM » 28 des 2005 08:52:26

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...

Hi Steve,

I am read thru this a few times and am having trouble
following the story in particular the Family History
system merged group reports . I tried to find the
surname Margt Agnes Ann died under
( d 1902 Marrickville ), but drew a blank ? . Did she
marry this THWAITES bloke in Adelaide 1879 ?

I am more than happy to help but this seems to be very
muddled if you dont know anything about this family as I
dont


Wilson was drowned in the
Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856,
leaving her,
aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she
married
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more
children
(though there is some doubt about the fourth),


Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862
Broulee
Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS

Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek
went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053

See NSW State Records on line indexes
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au


and then he
committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March
1864.



There might be a surviving inquest file out at State
Records ??????

Indexes to NSW Coronial inquests are on film from abt
1800 and something - 1942 in a lot of larger libraries
..

Might be a report in the Sydney Morning Herald too ?

Bye

--
MargM
Beautiful Central Coast of NSW
Australia

Steve Hayes

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 28 des 2005 13:40:31

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:52:26 +1100, "MargM" <genknut@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...


Hi Steve,

I am read thru this a few times and am having trouble
following the story in particular the Family History
system merged group reports . I tried to find the
surname Margt Agnes Ann died under
( d 1902 Marrickville ), but drew a blank ? . Did she
marry this THWAITES bloke in Adelaide 1879 ?

I am more than happy to help but this seems to be very
muddled if you dont know anything about this family as I
dont

Yes, she died as "Agnes Margaret Anne Thwaites", father William Green, mother
Margaret Gray, at 60 Shepherd Street, Marrickville. Informant on the death
certificate was her son Walter Wm Thwaites. Born Nova Scotia, North America, 8
years in South Australia, 7 years in Victoria, 20 years in NSW.

She married Thwaites twice, once in Sydney, and the second time in Adelaide,
with four children being born in bertween (but his previous wife was still
alive). .

Wilson was drowned in the
Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856,
leaving her,
aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she
married
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more
children
(though there is some doubt about the fourth),

Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862
Broulee
Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS

Well the missing one, Ada, was supposed to have been born in bodalla, but was
apparently never mentioned again in the family after about 1865, when they
bleft Queanbeyan for Sydney. Perhaps they dropped her off en route!


Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek
went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053

Now that is very interesting -- where was Dwyers Creek in relation to Moruya
and neighbouring areas?

See NSW State Records on line indexes
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au


and then he
committed suicide in a Sydney boarding house on 5 March
1864.



There might be a surviving inquest file out at State
Records ??????

Indexes to NSW Coronial inquests are on film from abt
1800 and something - 1942 in a lot of larger libraries
.

Might be a report in the Sydney Morning Herald too ?

Thanks very much!


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

Keith Radford

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av Keith Radford » 28 des 2005 15:06:31

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...


Hi Steve,
Yes, she died as "Agnes Margaret Anne Thwaites", father William Green,
mother
Margaret Gray, at 60 Shepherd Street, Marrickville. Informant on the death
certificate was her son Walter Wm Thwaites. Born Nova Scotia, North
America, 8
years in South Australia, 7 years in Victoria, 20 years in NSW.

She married Thwaites twice, once in Sydney, and the second time in
Adelaide,
with four children being born in bertween (but his previous wife was still
alive). .

Wilson was drowned in the
Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856,
leaving her,
aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she
married
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more
children
From http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

marriage
1518/1858 FRANCIS ALFRED J D WILSON MARGARET A A BROULEE

Births
6076/1859 FRANCIS (FEMALE) ALFRED J D AGNES M A BROULEE

6162/1861 FRANCIS ARTHUR W ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE

6381/1862 FRANCIS EDITH L ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE

14090/1864 FRANCIS LOUISA ALFRED J D MARGARET A A QUEANBEYAN



AGCI has a christening of

Ada Francis
at Gunning NSW on 3 Feb 1874
Source Parish Register
Held by Heraldy & Genealogical Society Canberra



(though there is some doubt about the fourth),

Can only find 3 Arthur W b Broulee 1861 Edith Lb 1862
Broulee
Louisa b 1864 Queanbeyan all registered under FRANCIS

Well the missing one, Ada, was supposed to have been born in bodalla, but
was
apparently never mentioned again in the family after about 1865, when they
bleft Queanbeyan for Sydney. Perhaps they dropped her off en route!


Alfred John DAWSON , miner - storekeeper of Dwyers Creek
went bankrupt in 17 Aug 1860 file # 5053

Now that is very interesting -- where was Dwyers Creek in relation to
Moruya
and neighbouring areas?

Dwyers Creek is part / near Moruya (shares same post code 2537
see map on following link
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/d ... &region=SE

Kind regards,
Lynne

MargM

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av MargM » 28 des 2005 23:17:08

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...

Hi again Steve

The mystery attaches to her first two husbands, and
especially
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS.


his eldest daughter by Agnes GREEN also had FAIRFAX in
her name.


She is the 4th child ........... Found her later last
night in the NSW birth indexes under 'unnamed' child of
Alfred JD FRANCIS and Agnes MA


MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES,
Walter William
McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died
20 Mar
1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER:
THWAITES,
Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74;
MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane

MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in
Adelaide,
SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841
in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria,
Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William,
Born
??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN,
Jane;
Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide,
because
Sydney marriage was bigamous.


??? So would the South AUS marriage be!! If your married
somewhere then you are married. Any subsiquent marriage
if spouse still living would be bigamous where ever it
occured



Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley


I wondered if he's been in touch with the Eden Monaro
FHS ??

3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar
1859 in
Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield,
NSW, AUS;
Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William


Ada Anne WHITE was living at Eidleigh Station, Hoskinstown
Eden - Monaro NSW 1903 Electoral roll

Percy COWLEY was a stock Inspector at Tenterfeild NSW 1903
E roll

Walter Wm Alfred THWAITES was a photographer of 123
Enmore Rd Newtown , 1903 E roll
Could be more info on him in the 'Electronic Eye ' book

Bye

--
MargM
Beautiful Central Coast of NSW

Steve Hayes

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 30 des 2005 05:29:18

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:17:08 +1100, "MargM" <genknut@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...

Hi again Steve

The mystery attaches to her first two husbands, and
especially
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS.


his eldest daughter by Agnes GREEN also had FAIRFAX in
her name.


She is the 4th child ........... Found her later last
night in the NSW birth indexes under 'unnamed' child of
Alfred JD FRANCIS and Agnes MA



MARRIED 20 Aug 1879 in Adelaide, SA, to THWAITES,
Walter William
McLean, Born ??? 1841 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died
20 Mar
1908 in Victoria, Australia at age 67; FATHER:
THWAITES,
Walter William, Born ??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74;
MOTHER: MCLEAN, Jane

MARRIED 2 May 1871 in Sydney, NSW until 20 Aug 1879 in
Adelaide,
SA, to THWAITES, Walter William McLean, Born ??? 1841
in
Sydney, NSW, Australia, Died 20 Mar 1908 in Victoria,
Australia at age 67; FATHER: THWAITES, Walter William,
Born
??? 1814, Died Feb 1888 at age 74; MOTHER: MCLEAN,
Jane;
Married first in Sydney, then again in Adelaide,
because
Sydney marriage was bigamous.


??? So would the South AUS marriage be!! If your married
somewhere then you are married. Any subsiquent marriage
if spouse still living would be bigamous where ever it
occured



Source: death date - family tree sent by Bob Cowley


I wondered if he's been in touch with the Eden Monaro
FHS ??

3. F FRANCIS, Ada Anne Angeline Fairfax, born 10 Mar
1859 in
Bodalla, NSW, AUS, died 9 Nov 1938 in Ashfield,
NSW, AUS;
Married 1 Aug 1894 to WHITE, William


Ada Anne WHITE was living at Eidleigh Station, Hoskinstown
Eden - Monaro NSW 1903 Electoral roll

Percy COWLEY was a stock Inspector at Tenterfeild NSW 1903
E roll

Walter Wm Alfred THWAITES was a photographer of 123
Enmore Rd Newtown , 1903 E roll
Could be more info on him in the 'Electronic Eye ' book

Thnks very much for that... each bit adds to the picture.

--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

Steve Hayes

Re: FRANCIS, GREEN & WILSON - Canada, South Africa, Australi

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 30 des 2005 05:34:27

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:06:31 +1100, "Keith Radford" <keilyn03@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:grv2r1t18olj491imke90hosp7guoko87v@4ax.com...


Hi Steve,
Yes, she died as "Agnes Margaret Anne Thwaites", father William Green,
mother
Margaret Gray, at 60 Shepherd Street, Marrickville. Informant on the death
certificate was her son Walter Wm Thwaites. Born Nova Scotia, North
America, 8
years in South Australia, 7 years in Victoria, 20 years in NSW.

She married Thwaites twice, once in Sydney, and the second time in
Adelaide,
with four children being born in bertween (but his previous wife was still
alive). .

Wilson was drowned in the
Tuross River in New South Wales on 21 April 1856,
leaving her,
aged 20, with two young children. Shortly after that she
married
Alfred John Dawson FRANCIS, by whom she had four more
children
From http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
marriage
1518/1858 FRANCIS ALFRED J D WILSON MARGARET A A BROULEE

Births
6076/1859 FRANCIS (FEMALE) ALFRED J D AGNES M A BROULEE

6162/1861 FRANCIS ARTHUR W ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE

6381/1862 FRANCIS EDITH L ALFRED J D MARGARET A A BROULEE

14090/1864 FRANCIS LOUISA ALFRED J D MARGARET A A QUEANBEYAN



AGCI has a christening of

Ada Francis
at Gunning NSW on 3 Feb 1874
Source Parish Register
Held by Heraldy & Genealogical Society Canberra

Interesting, that ... she seems to have been baptised twice then, as,
according to one family member, there is a record of her being baptised at
Braidwood as an infant, or perhaps the priest from Braidwood travelled round
the district baptising infants in other villages.

Ada seems not to have been mentioned in the family again when they left
Queanbeyan in 185 for Sydney, so perhaps her mother dumped her there (as she
had already dumped her two youngest to be brought up by other families) and
when she came to get married she had no baptism certificate, so was
rebaptised.


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

Svar

Gå tilbake til «alt.genealogy»