Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Steve Hayes
Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
kat >^.
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Great travelogue, Steve! Glad you had a good time and arrived home safely.
kat >^.^<
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
kat >^.^<
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Rob Burns
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Steve,
Having just started planning a trip to the US in November what you have said
will now be invaluable. Many thanks
Rob
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
Having just started planning a trip to the US in November what you have said
will now be invaluable. Many thanks
Rob
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Kalish
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Thank you for kindly posting this - very nice. Kalish
On Thu, 26 May 2005 14:16:11 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 14:16:11 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote:
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Bruce Remick
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Fascinating account of a trip many of us would love to experience. I suspect my
Remick ancestor came from Cornwall, near Padstow, back in the 1600's. Even
though I have no evidence of this connection, I would still like to make a trip
to that area and visit the villages and parishes mentioned in early records,
driving as you did around the countryside and "pretending" my ancestors once
walked that same ground. If I get lucky, there may even be a Remick or two
still living in the area.
Bruce
Remick ancestor came from Cornwall, near Padstow, back in the 1600's. Even
though I have no evidence of this connection, I would still like to make a trip
to that area and visit the villages and parishes mentioned in early records,
driving as you did around the countryside and "pretending" my ancestors once
walked that same ground. If I get lucky, there may even be a Remick or two
still living in the area.
Bruce
-
CWatters
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
So it went something like...
No kidding! That's quite some trip around the park. Glad to hear you had
good time. Hope there wern't too many traffic jams.
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived.
So it went something like...
London
Winchester,
Bath
Bristol
Cornwal
Cardiff,
North Wales
Snowdonia
Shropshire
Wastwater
Girvan,
Edinburgh,
Leeds
Cambridgeshire
Twickenham
Colindale newspaper library.
English friends, when they saw our schedule thought we were crazy
No kidding! That's quite some trip around the park. Glad to hear you had
good time. Hope there wern't too many traffic jams.
-
Joe Pessarra
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
Enjoyed reading your trip report. My wife and I will be heading for Hexham
up near the Scottish border on Friday a week from now. We will be visiting
distant cousins, whose ancestor came from East Prussia. My grandfather came
from the same location in EP to the US in 1869, so finding these relatives
was a real search. We always enjoy our visits to England.
We have made many trips to Germany to visit relatives and places where my
ancestors once lived. Your trip reminds us of those times, people and
places, even though in a different land.
Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA
Return address is bogus.
Use joepessarra@cox.net
to respond directly.
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived.
Enjoyed reading your trip report. My wife and I will be heading for Hexham
up near the Scottish border on Friday a week from now. We will be visiting
distant cousins, whose ancestor came from East Prussia. My grandfather came
from the same location in EP to the US in 1869, so finding these relatives
was a real search. We always enjoy our visits to England.
We have made many trips to Germany to visit relatives and places where my
ancestors once lived. Your trip reminds us of those times, people and
places, even though in a different land.
Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA
Return address is bogus.
Use joepessarra@cox.net
to respond directly.
-
Steve Hayes
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
On Thu, 26 May 2005 17:45:22 GMT, "CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be>
wrote:
Also included a trip to Holy Island (Lindisfarne), visiting in Durham,
Stockton, Crowle, Epworth, Tolleshunt Knights and Colchester in Essex, where
we hoped to see some of the notorious Essex girls, and did see a sign in a
shop window saying "Ladies 70% off". Wandered up and down the High Street
looking for the hotel we had booked in, but eventually discovered it was in
Brightlingsea, about 8 miles away. Ye Olde Swan -- good value for money.
Nothing compared to the ones my wife has going to work every day. The Cardiff
cousin commutes to work in Bristol in 45 minutes, my wife commutes the same
distance to Johannesburg, and it takes an hour and a half on the freeway, If
she leaves for work after 6 am it takes longer. The worst traffic jam we found
in the UK was going in to Bristol on Tuesday morning after a bank holiday, and
getting caught up in the queue waiting to cross the Firth of Forth at
Edinburgh after wandering around waiting for cousins to get home from work --
we weren't going where they were going so turned off at the first opportunity.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
wrote:
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived.
So it went something like...
London
Winchester,
Bath
Bristol
Cornwal
Cardiff,
North Wales
Snowdonia
Shropshire
Wastwater
Girvan,
Edinburgh,
Leeds
Cambridgeshire
Twickenham
Colindale newspaper library.
English friends, when they saw our schedule thought we were crazy
Also included a trip to Holy Island (Lindisfarne), visiting in Durham,
Stockton, Crowle, Epworth, Tolleshunt Knights and Colchester in Essex, where
we hoped to see some of the notorious Essex girls, and did see a sign in a
shop window saying "Ladies 70% off". Wandered up and down the High Street
looking for the hotel we had booked in, but eventually discovered it was in
Brightlingsea, about 8 miles away. Ye Olde Swan -- good value for money.
No kidding! That's quite some trip around the park. Glad to hear you had
good time. Hope there wern't too many traffic jams.
Nothing compared to the ones my wife has going to work every day. The Cardiff
cousin commutes to work in Bristol in 45 minutes, my wife commutes the same
distance to Johannesburg, and it takes an hour and a half on the freeway, If
she leaves for work after 6 am it takes longer. The worst traffic jam we found
in the UK was going in to Bristol on Tuesday morning after a bank holiday, and
getting caught up in the queue waiting to cross the Firth of Forth at
Edinburgh after wandering around waiting for cousins to get home from work --
we weren't going where they were going so turned off at the first opportunity.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
cecilia
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Steve Hayes wrote:
On which road was the queue?
[...] caught up in the queue waiting to cross the Firth of Forth at
Edinburgh [...]
On which road was the queue?
-
Gjest
Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Joe Pessarra wrote in a message to Steve Hayes:
JP> From: "Joe Pessarra" <pessarraspam@spamcox-internet.com>
JP> "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
JP> news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
JP> Enjoyed reading your trip report. My wife and I will be heading
JP> for Hexham up near the Scottish border on Friday a week from now.
JP> We will be visiting distant cousins, whose ancestor came from East
JP> Prussia. My grandfather came from the same location in EP to the
JP> US in 1869, so finding these relatives was a real search. We
JP> always enjoy our visits to England.
JP> We have made many trips to Germany to visit relatives and places
JP> where my ancestors once lived. Your trip reminds us of those
JP> times, people and places, even though in a different land.
My wife also has German ancestry on her father's side, though they came from
West Prussia, or rather the Ueckermark. We don't know of any living relatives
there, though, even though our family information goes back quite a lot further
than the English ones. Some were Huguenot refugees who left France in 1688
after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and for several generations they
married French, and the French Reformed churches in the area appear to have
kept very good records.
On the English side, in most cases we were barely able to get back to the 18th
century, except in Devon, where they had farmed in the area and lived in the
same two villages for generations.
--
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.
--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)
JP> From: "Joe Pessarra" <pessarraspam@spamcox-internet.com>
JP> "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
JP> news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived.
JP> Enjoyed reading your trip report. My wife and I will be heading
JP> for Hexham up near the Scottish border on Friday a week from now.
JP> We will be visiting distant cousins, whose ancestor came from East
JP> Prussia. My grandfather came from the same location in EP to the
JP> US in 1869, so finding these relatives was a real search. We
JP> always enjoy our visits to England.
JP> We have made many trips to Germany to visit relatives and places
JP> where my ancestors once lived. Your trip reminds us of those
JP> times, people and places, even though in a different land.
My wife also has German ancestry on her father's side, though they came from
West Prussia, or rather the Ueckermark. We don't know of any living relatives
there, though, even though our family information goes back quite a lot further
than the English ones. Some were Huguenot refugees who left France in 1688
after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and for several generations they
married French, and the French Reformed churches in the area appear to have
kept very good records.
On the English side, in most cases we were barely able to get back to the 18th
century, except in Devon, where they had farmed in the area and lived in the
same two villages for generations.
--
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.
--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)
-
Liz (I don't like Spam...
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
"cecilia" <myths@ic24.net> wrote in message
news:4296e4fd.1013036@news.freeserve.com...
A90/ A8000 / M90.
Queues are southbound at 8am, northbound at 5pm, and both ways
whenever there are roadworks ;-(
Liz
news:4296e4fd.1013036@news.freeserve.com...
Steve Hayes wrote:
[...] caught up in the queue waiting to cross the Firth of Forth at
Edinburgh [...]
On which road was the queue?
A90/ A8000 / M90.
Queues are southbound at 8am, northbound at 5pm, and both ways
whenever there are roadworks ;-(
Liz
-
Liz (I don't like Spam...
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
"Liz (I don't like Spam....)" <I-dont-want-spam@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:d77922$ofh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
.... and can be viewed in the comfort of your own home here:
southbound:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/whereiliv ... e=welldean
northbound:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/whereiliv ... me=echline
Now we are well and truely off-topic for genealogy!
Liz
news:d77922$ofh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"cecilia" <myths@ic24.net> wrote in message
news:4296e4fd.1013036@news.freeserve.com...
Steve Hayes wrote:
[...] caught up in the queue waiting to cross the Firth of Forth at
Edinburgh [...]
On which road was the queue?
A90/ A8000 / M90.
Queues are southbound at 8am, northbound at 5pm, and both ways
whenever there are roadworks ;-(
.... and can be viewed in the comfort of your own home here:
southbound:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/whereiliv ... e=welldean
northbound:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/whereiliv ... me=echline
Now we are well and truely off-topic for genealogy!
Liz
-
cecilia
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
"Liz \(I don't like Spam....\)" wrote
Thanks - that fully answers my question.
(From my point of view the question could have been phrased "In six
days, can we drive to Aberdeen and back without becoming totally
shattered and have enough time there for me to do some genealogical
research in orphanage records, visit the 19C farmsteads and take the
last of the oldest generation out to lunch?" but I thought it better to
be specific <grin>)
... and can be viewed in the comfort of your own home here: [...]
Now we are well and truely off-topic for genealogy!
Thanks - that fully answers my question.
(From my point of view the question could have been phrased "In six
days, can we drive to Aberdeen and back without becoming totally
shattered and have enough time there for me to do some genealogical
research in orphanage records, visit the 19C farmsteads and take the
last of the oldest generation out to lunch?" but I thought it better to
be specific <grin>)
-
David Webb
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Maybe you can explain why so many British people would like to move abroad?
As a South African, you didn't mention the multicultural society that has
been foisted on us. Were you one of those idiots that supported the creation
of the new South Africa? I read between the lines that you are a
multicultural extremist. Well, with crime rates being what they are in South
Africa, you - or a member of your family - may get more than you bargained
for! LOL!!
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
As a South African, you didn't mention the multicultural society that has
been foisted on us. Were you one of those idiots that supported the creation
of the new South Africa? I read between the lines that you are a
multicultural extremist. Well, with crime rates being what they are in South
Africa, you - or a member of your family - may get more than you bargained
for! LOL!!
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:umeb91h6im7udqib933fst1bj9gtrqffng@4ax.com...
My wife and I have just returned to South Africa from a trip to
Britain, visiting family and friends and places where ancestors
had lived. A couple of months before we left I asked on some of
the genealogy forums for advice on how to make the best use of
limited time, and now that we're back home I thought others who
might be planning to do something similar might find an account
of it useful.
I had not visited Britain for nearly 40 years, and my wife had
been for a few days when she won a ticket to the cup final in
1996 (when Man U beat Liverpool). We'd never really visited
places where our ancestors had lived, though she had toured
around more than I had.
We got quite a lot of different advice, and one of the most
valuable was not to spend too much time in record repositories,
but rather absorb the atmosphere. So we planned a fairly tight
schedule -- hired a car in London when we arrived early on a Mon-
day morning, visited friends near Winchester, and then spent a
couple of nights at a B&B near Bath (Pickfords at Beckington,
recommended!).
The next day we picked up a second cousin in Bristol, and visited
some 5th cousins at Kelston near Bath. I'd not met any of them
before, though we had corresponded. We looked at the family trees
each of us had drawn, chatted about the people on them, and
looked at family photos. We'd scanned a lot and put them on a
laptop computer, which was the easiest way to carry them and show
them to people. In the afternoon we took cousin Jane to Winscombe
and Axbridge, where Hayes ancestors had lived. My great
grandfather's pub in Axbridge, the Red Lion, was now a private
house, but cousin Jane, bold as brass, knocked on the door and
asked if we could have a look around. The new owner, an American
interested in renovating old buildings, very kindly gave us a cup
of tea, and said he was quite used to people coming into the
kitchen and asking for food, not realising that it was no longer
a pub.
Next day we headed off to Cornwall, pausing for lunch at North
Curry where the earliest Hayes ancestor claimed to have been
born. The crumbling stone church, with its octagonal tower, under
scudding clouds, with strange birds calling, was far more
numinous and spooky than Glastonbury, which we had passed through
to get there, and in spite of its reputation, seemed banal and
suburban by comparison. And being there was important. I'd read
about the flat lands in books, and about the basket willows, but
*seeing* them made a big difference. The pub, the Bird in Hand,
did a pretty good lunch. Some things had changed since 40 years
ago -- English cooking had improved. No more plastic and
breadcrumb Walls sausages -- they had real meat. No more twee
"French fried potatoes". Honest-to-goodness chips were back in
fashion. Other sixties kitsch had gone too -- like pubs with
shin-high tables and muzak.
We visited some villages in Devon, scurrying through narrow
sunken lanes like rats in a maze. All we saw of one ancestral
village was a sign on a hedge: "Dunchideock -- please drive
carefully". Don Moody, who used to frequent one of the genealogy
forums, had said Doddiscombsleigh pub provided a very good meal,
but we were still full from lunch at North Curry. Wandered around
the church yards at Ashton and Trusham, snapping gravestones with
the digital camera, but the memorials to the Stooke family inside
the Trusham church were in better condition. A briefer stop in
Chudleigh (only one ancestor apparently born there) mainly to
look for a loo, and on to Cornwall across Dartmoor and Bodmin
Moor. The moors looked just like the South African highveld.
The next day was a tour of Bodmin Moor parishes. Cardinham,
Temple, Blisland, St Breward, St Teath, St Tudy. Cardinham had
very old pews, so there could be no doubt that generations of
ancestral bums had sat on those seats. It was election day, and
when we turned up at Temple there were cars parked all over, so
we assumed at first that everyone had decided no vote at once,
but no, it was a mediaeval wedding in the church, complete with
knights in shining armour, and many colourful costumes.
A highlight was Bodmin. Saw the house my g g grandfather had once
lived in, at 3 Higher Bore Street. But before that he had lived
at Scarlett's Well, and my great grandfather had been born there.
So we went there, and drank from the well. There was only one
house there, so they must have lived in that, though some parts
were probably recent additions. But it suddenly made sense of his
occupation as "woodman'. So seeing it, and the villages in
relation to each other, made it much more real. Imagination
doesn't come close.
The next day we were off to Cardiff, supper with another second
cousin, comparing research notes, telling stories. Then North
Wales to one of my wife's second cousins, farming in Snowdonia
near Caernarfon. Spent the following night with friends in
Shropshire, then up to Whitehaven where my wife's grandparents
came from, and to Wastwater, which her grandmother always used to
say had "the highest mountain, the deepest lake, the smallest
church, and the biggest liar, but he's dead." If his gravestone
was in the churchyard, we didn't see it. Then to Girvan, where my
great great grandfather was buried, along with the seven of his
eight children who died in infancy. No wonder he committed
suicide.
My mother's cousin in Glasgow was the only one we intended to see
but missed; she'd gone off on a bus trip for the day. And so it
went, more cousins in Edinburgh, seeing my alma mater at Durham,
staying with a college friend at Stockton, visiting another
cousin in Leeds, visiting churches in the Isle of Axholme, anoth-
er fifth cousin in a little village in Cambridgeshire, ending up
with four days staying in a friend's cottage in Twickenham, from
which we visited the Colindale newspaper library.
London was the only place where we used public transport. Hiring
a car was the only way we could fit in the visits to all the
other places. English friends, when they saw our schedule,
thought we were crazy, but it was the only way we could fit in
seeing as many people and places as we did, and it wasn't rushed.
It also meant we did not overstay our welcome. But we had
ancestors from all over the British Isles, and mostly round the
edges -- none in the middle. That meant we didn't get to see
living relatives who lived in places like Birmingham, but one
can't do everything. You can choose your friends, but you can't
choose your family, so it's always a toss up whether you'll get
on with relatives you've never met before, but we thoroughly
enjoyed meeting all of them, and we hope they were as pleased to
see us.
At the Colindale newspaper library we managed to establish a num-
ber of exact dates of death (cheaper than certificates) from
newspaper announcements. And in some of the early 20th century
ones there were more detailed accounts of funerals and mourners
and all.
Apart from the newspaper library, the only actual research data
we collected was digital photos of tombstones, with tran-
scriptions made in situ of ones that might be hard to read in the
photos.
So at the end we can say of our trip that everything went well,
nothing went wrong (at least not seriously). There were some
things and people we'd like to have seen but didn't, but there's
a limit to what one can accomplish with 3 weeks leave. We
squeezed in as much as we could without feeling rushed.
So to any others from outside Britain who have British ancestors
we would say, try to visit the places where your ancestors lived,
and make contact with living relatives, even if you've never met
them before. You may not hit it off with all of them, but you're
bound to meet some that you like.
Highlights? Hard to say, but probably Scarlett's Well near Bod-
min. That house was probably where my great grandfather was born
in 1851. This is where he grew up (10 in the 1861 census). He
played in these fields, these woods, this stream, drank from this
well. These were the things he saw, the sounds he heard, the
smells he smelt.
Some general observations -- changes noticed in Britain in 40
years: I've already mentioned the improved food. The
privatisation of London Transport was a retrograde step. In 1966,
when I used to drive the 133 bus over London bridge at 9:00 am it
was a sea of black brollies and bowler hats hurrying to the City,
and at 5:30 pm the tide reversed. This time I saw only one bowler
hat -- on a college servant at Oxford.
Britain is expensive. Petrol costs twice as much as it does in
South Africa (and we still complain), beer and food in pubs as
well. Public transport too. Bed and breakfast places cost about
the same, though, but we noticed that the more you pay, the less
you get. And all but one provided no place to write, not even a
postcard!
Estuary accents are everywhere, even in Cornwall. Didn't hear
a West country accent until we visited my 5th cousin in a little
village in the Cambridgeshire fens -- he still spoke with a
Bristol accent. But along with the spread of London accents to
the provinces, an increase in local loyalty. In the 1960s Union
Jacks were everywhere, often tongue in cheek: on coffee mugs, loo
seats, tea towels, you name it. But this time we saw the Cornish
flag on the graves of soldiers who'd been killed in Iraq. English
flags, Scottish flags, and of course bilingual road signs in
Wales. There have been a lot of changes in Britain since the
1960s, but most of them seem to be for the better. But I still
haven't tasted what I am told is the quintessential British dish:
Chicken Tikka Masala.
So, thanks to everyone who gave us advice, whether we took it or
not, and I hope this encourages people who've never seen the
homes of their British ancestors to make the trip.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/
-
Liz
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
David Webb wrote:
Ignore him Steve, he is our resident BNP apologist oik.
Doesn't so much 'read between the lines' as completely fail to comprehend.
Why would someone with absolutely no claim to 'culture' of any kind be
worried about multiculturalism?
Typically, if one even appears to be to the left of Attila the Hun he
ends up chortling at the expectation of violence being inflicted, of
course, by those of a different race .... Bad combination, an overheated
imagination in an otherwise empty mind ....
Liz (Greenwich UK)
Maybe you can explain why so many British people would like to move abroad?
As a South African, you didn't mention the multicultural society that has
been foisted on us. Were you one of those idiots that supported the creation
of the new South Africa? I read between the lines that you are a
multicultural extremist. Well, with crime rates being what they are in South
Africa, you - or a member of your family - may get more than you bargained
for! LOL!!
Ignore him Steve, he is our resident BNP apologist oik.
Doesn't so much 'read between the lines' as completely fail to comprehend.
Why would someone with absolutely no claim to 'culture' of any kind be
worried about multiculturalism?
Typically, if one even appears to be to the left of Attila the Hun he
ends up chortling at the expectation of violence being inflicted, of
course, by those of a different race .... Bad combination, an overheated
imagination in an otherwise empty mind ....
Liz (Greenwich UK)
-
Gjest
Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
David Webb wrote in a message to Steve Hayes:
DW> From: "David Webb" <djwebb2002@blueyonder.co.uk>
DW> Maybe you can explain why so many British people would like to move
DW> abroad? As a South African, you didn't mention the multicultural
DW> society that has been foisted on us. Were you one of those idiots
DW> that supported the creation of the new South Africa? I read between
DW> the lines that you are a multicultural extremist. Well, with crime
DW> rates being what they are in South Africa, you - or a member of
DW> your family - may get more than you bargained for! LOL!!
And your point is?
--
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.
--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)
DW> From: "David Webb" <djwebb2002@blueyonder.co.uk>
DW> Maybe you can explain why so many British people would like to move
DW> abroad? As a South African, you didn't mention the multicultural
DW> society that has been foisted on us. Were you one of those idiots
DW> that supported the creation of the new South Africa? I read between
DW> the lines that you are a multicultural extremist. Well, with crime
DW> rates being what they are in South Africa, you - or a member of
DW> your family - may get more than you bargained for! LOL!!
And your point is?
--
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.
--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)
-
David Webb
Re: Visiting ancestral homes and living relatives in Britain
Ignore him Steve, he is our resident BNP apologist oik.
Doesn't so much 'read between the lines' as completely fail to comprehend.
Why would someone with absolutely no claim to 'culture' of any kind be
worried about multiculturalism?
Typically, if one even appears to be to the left of Attila the Hun he
ends up chortling at the expectation of violence being inflicted, of
course, by those of a different race .... Bad combination, an overheated
imagination in an otherwise empty mind ....
Liz (Greenwich UK)
This contains a typical libel. I am not a member of any political party. Why
can't leftwing extremists put their arguments without resort to slur and
libel?