Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

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Sharon

Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Sharon » 19 apr 2005 09:05:13

Hi folks,
Just wondering if digital cameras are allowed to photograph microfilm images
at Salt Lake City Family History Library?
If so are there any conditions - such as signing a copyright form?
Not that I am planning on a visit - it's just that at our local Family
History Library the use of digital cameras has been stopped, and since I
have a large film just come in, with a great deal of records I need copies
of, I would like to push for being allowed to take photos again.
Thanks for your advice,
Sharon

Pam

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Pam » 19 apr 2005 11:12:41

Unless things have changed since I was there 2 1/2 years ago, they have no
problem with digital cameras. I used mine to take over 700 photos of
microfilm and book pages with no problems, no forms to sign, etc. Have you
asked your FHC why they stopped it? I've been able to use mine with no
trouble. Ours doesn't have a microfilm copier, does yours? It might be
worth asking the reason. There should be no problem with copyright since
we're allowed to make copies of the microfilm pages using their copier.
--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"Sharon" <sbunter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZY29e.16421$5F3.9843@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Hi folks,
Just wondering if digital cameras are allowed to photograph microfilm
images at Salt Lake City Family History Library?
If so are there any conditions - such as signing a copyright form?
Not that I am planning on a visit - it's just that at our local Family
History Library the use of digital cameras has been stopped, and since I
have a large film just come in, with a great deal of records I need copies
of, I would like to push for being allowed to take photos again.
Thanks for your advice,
Sharon

singhals

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av singhals » 19 apr 2005 14:19:28

Pam wrote:

Unless things have changed since I was there 2 1/2 years ago, they have no
problem with digital cameras. I used mine to take over 700 photos of
microfilm and book pages with no problems, no forms to sign, etc. Have you
asked your FHC why they stopped it? I've been able to use mine with no
trouble. Ours doesn't have a microfilm copier, does yours? It might be
worth asking the reason. There should be no problem with copyright since
we're allowed to make copies of the microfilm pages using their copier.


Yes, but. (g)

First off, FHC rules imposed from Salt Lake forbid copying *all* of any
reel or document, because that's a far cry from "fair use".

Then, few centers have equipment heavy-duty enough to allow copying on
that scale.

And finally, printing off copies from film requires the outlay of money,
and that fact self-regulates the amount of copying. A digital camera on
the other hand requires no per-page outlay, and entices one to copy the
whole film "just in case I need it again". The number of people willing
to spend $70 to copy 100 pages is far smaller than the number of people
willing to snap 100 digital shots.


Cheryl

Pam

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Pam » 19 apr 2005 16:35:16

True, although this is not applicable in either case. The original poster
apparently wasn't allowed to use the digital camera at all in her FHC. If a
local FHC was worrying about someone copying an entire film, it should be
pretty evident someone was doing that as most FHCs are small enough for the
volunteers to notice someone taking photos of each frame--at least the ones
I've used. :) My images in SLC were spread over 50-60 films and numerous
books and in no way came close to copying one entire film. All my copies
were pertinent to the families I was researching--a great many in German
which I need time at home to examine and try to translate. The digital
camera allows me to take photos baptisms for each child in the family (and
perhaps gain clues through Godparents) whereas I would be more restricted
because of cost and the policy that you can only use the copier for 5
documents if others are waiting--which is usually the case at the FHL. Not
to mention the time spent taking the reel of film off, walking over to the
copier area, standing in line, making the copies, going back, and then
repeating it all.

I did check the Library rules online and there was no mention of a
digital-camera ban so I'm hoping they still allow them as I'm going to be
going out there in 2 months. :)
--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:4L2dnSACxuvCmPjfRVn-iQ@rcn.net...
Pam wrote:

Unless things have changed since I was there 2 1/2 years ago, they have
no problem with digital cameras. I used mine to take over 700 photos of
microfilm and book pages with no problems, no forms to sign, etc. Have
you asked your FHC why they stopped it? I've been able to use mine with
no trouble. Ours doesn't have a microfilm copier, does yours? It might
be worth asking the reason. There should be no problem with copyright
since we're allowed to make copies of the microfilm pages using their
copier.


Yes, but. (g)

First off, FHC rules imposed from Salt Lake forbid copying *all* of any
reel or document, because that's a far cry from "fair use".

Then, few centers have equipment heavy-duty enough to allow copying on
that scale.

And finally, printing off copies from film requires the outlay of money,
and that fact self-regulates the amount of copying. A digital camera on
the other hand requires no per-page outlay, and entices one to copy the
whole film "just in case I need it again". The number of people willing
to spend $70 to copy 100 pages is far smaller than the number of people
willing to snap 100 digital shots.


Cheryl




Anne Nolan

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Anne Nolan » 20 apr 2005 04:27:44

When I was there a year ago, they had at least one machine (and probably
more now) that you could put your reel of film in, and burn the image of
interest straight to a CD-RW (so bring some of those). I don't recall the
price for saving an image, but it wasn't hugely more than making a paper
copy if I recall....

Anne

"Pam" <pam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6e010$42652636$422adff4$32132@FUSE.NET...
True, although this is not applicable in either case. The original poster
apparently wasn't allowed to use the digital camera at all in her FHC. If
a local FHC was worrying about someone copying an entire film, it should
be pretty evident someone was doing that as most FHCs are small enough for
the volunteers to notice someone taking photos of each frame--at least the
ones I've used. :) My images in SLC were spread over 50-60 films and
numerous books and in no way came close to copying one entire film. All
my copies were pertinent to the families I was researching--a great many
in German which I need time at home to examine and try to translate. The
digital camera allows me to take photos baptisms for each child in the
family (and perhaps gain clues through Godparents) whereas I would be more
restricted because of cost and the policy that you can only use the copier
for 5 documents if others are waiting--which is usually the case at the
FHL. Not to mention the time spent taking the reel of film off, walking
over to the copier area, standing in line, making the copies, going back,
and then repeating it all.

I did check the Library rules online and there was no mention of a
digital-camera ban so I'm hoping they still allow them as I'm going to be
going out there in 2 months. :)
--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:4L2dnSACxuvCmPjfRVn-iQ@rcn.net...
Pam wrote:

Unless things have changed since I was there 2 1/2 years ago, they have
no problem with digital cameras. I used mine to take over 700 photos of
microfilm and book pages with no problems, no forms to sign, etc. Have
you asked your FHC why they stopped it? I've been able to use mine with
no trouble. Ours doesn't have a microfilm copier, does yours? It might
be worth asking the reason. There should be no problem with copyright
since we're allowed to make copies of the microfilm pages using their
copier.


Yes, but. (g)

First off, FHC rules imposed from Salt Lake forbid copying *all* of any
reel or document, because that's a far cry from "fair use".

Then, few centers have equipment heavy-duty enough to allow copying on
that scale.

And finally, printing off copies from film requires the outlay of money,
and that fact self-regulates the amount of copying. A digital camera on
the other hand requires no per-page outlay, and entices one to copy the
whole film "just in case I need it again". The number of people willing
to spend $70 to copy 100 pages is far smaller than the number of people
willing to snap 100 digital shots.


Cheryl






singhals

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av singhals » 20 apr 2005 15:23:33

If the FHC had a known instance where a digital camera user broke the
rules, they may have issued a no-digital-camera ban rather than saying
"Patron FGH cannot use his/her digital camera in here." The first is
much easier to enforce uniformly. I assume this is what happened in the
case of the OP.

Good luck with your research.

Cheryl




Pam wrote:

True, although this is not applicable in either case. The original poster
apparently wasn't allowed to use the digital camera at all in her FHC. If a
local FHC was worrying about someone copying an entire film, it should be
pretty evident someone was doing that as most FHCs are small enough for the
volunteers to notice someone taking photos of each frame--at least the ones
I've used. :) My images in SLC were spread over 50-60 films and numerous
books and in no way came close to copying one entire film. All my copies
were pertinent to the families I was researching--a great many in German
which I need time at home to examine and try to translate. The digital
camera allows me to take photos baptisms for each child in the family (and
perhaps gain clues through Godparents) whereas I would be more restricted
because of cost and the policy that you can only use the copier for 5
documents if others are waiting--which is usually the case at the FHL. Not
to mention the time spent taking the reel of film off, walking over to the
copier area, standing in line, making the copies, going back, and then
repeating it all.

I did check the Library rules online and there was no mention of a
digital-camera ban so I'm hoping they still allow them as I'm going to be
going out there in 2 months. :)

Joseph R. (Bob) Bouvier

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Joseph R. (Bob) Bouvier » 21 apr 2005 02:08:30

At my local FHC (McLean VA), they purchased a film scanner like you
describe. It allows you to print directly to a laser printer (10 cents a
copy), burn to a CD for which they will charge $1 a blank if you don't bring
your own, or save to a jump drive for no cost at all. At a few MB an image,
readily available jump drives can hold nearly as much as a CD and they're
reuseable. The burner software bundled with the scanner software does not
allow the creation of multi-session CDs but at $1 each, that's not a
hardship.

BTW, the scanner setup costs $6000. The center supplies its own PC and
network.

Bob in Virginia

"Anne Nolan" <anolan1952NO_SPAM@AOL.COM> wrote in message
news:3cm0hjF6q9bgvU1@individual.net...
When I was there a year ago, they had at least one machine (and probably
more now) that you could put your reel of film in, and burn the image of
interest straight to a CD-RW (so bring some of those). I don't recall the
price for saving an image, but it wasn't hugely more than making a paper
copy if I recall....

Anne

"Pam" <pam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6e010$42652636$422adff4$32132@FUSE.NET...
True, although this is not applicable in either case. The original
poster apparently wasn't allowed to use the digital camera at all in her
FHC. If a local FHC was worrying about someone copying an entire film, it
should be pretty evident someone was doing that as most FHCs are small
enough for the volunteers to notice someone taking photos of each
frame--at least the ones I've used. :) My images in SLC were spread
over 50-60 films and numerous books and in no way came close to copying
one entire film. All my copies were pertinent to the families I was
researching--a great many in German which I need time at home to examine
and try to translate. The digital camera allows me to take photos
baptisms for each child in the family (and perhaps gain clues through
Godparents) whereas I would be more restricted because of cost and the
policy that you can only use the copier for 5 documents if others are
waiting--which is usually the case at the FHL. Not to mention the time
spent taking the reel of film off, walking over to the copier area,
standing in line, making the copies, going back, and then repeating it
all.

I did check the Library rules online and there was no mention of a
digital-camera ban so I'm hoping they still allow them as I'm going to be
going out there in 2 months. :)
--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:4L2dnSACxuvCmPjfRVn-iQ@rcn.net...
Pam wrote:

Unless things have changed since I was there 2 1/2 years ago, they have
no problem with digital cameras. I used mine to take over 700 photos
of microfilm and book pages with no problems, no forms to sign, etc.
Have you asked your FHC why they stopped it? I've been able to use
mine with no trouble. Ours doesn't have a microfilm copier, does
yours? It might be worth asking the reason. There should be no
problem with copyright since we're allowed to make copies of the
microfilm pages using their copier.


Yes, but. (g)

First off, FHC rules imposed from Salt Lake forbid copying *all* of any
reel or document, because that's a far cry from "fair use".

Then, few centers have equipment heavy-duty enough to allow copying on
that scale.

And finally, printing off copies from film requires the outlay of money,
and that fact self-regulates the amount of copying. A digital camera on
the other hand requires no per-page outlay, and entices one to copy the
whole film "just in case I need it again". The number of people willing
to spend $70 to copy 100 pages is far smaller than the number of people
willing to snap 100 digital shots.


Cheryl








Alan Jones

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Alan Jones » 21 apr 2005 06:09:09

I saw all the other responses so far, remember this is NOT a rule that came
down from Salt Lake. There is a tendenancy for people to inflict more rules
and restrictions that are really needed. If I were you I would ask in a
friendly voice to talk to the director and ask why this FHC made this rule
when it is not the rule other FHCs or the FHL in Salt Lake. If you can't
convince the director, try going to a shift where people don't care or find
another local FHC.

By the way, someone said there was a rule against copy a whole film, I don't
think so. A whole file might be the census, or birth certificates or other
records that are in the public domain. Now a published private book on film
is another story.




"Sharon" <sbunter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZY29e.16421$5F3.9843@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Hi folks,
Just wondering if digital cameras are allowed to photograph microfilm
images at Salt Lake City Family History Library?
If so are there any conditions - such as signing a copyright form?
Not that I am planning on a visit - it's just that at our local Family
History Library the use of digital cameras has been stopped, and since I
have a large film just come in, with a great deal of records I need copies
of, I would like to push for being allowed to take photos again.
Thanks for your advice,
Sharon

Pam

Re: Salt Lake City - digital cameras allowed?

Legg inn av Pam » 21 apr 2005 11:31:49

Thanks, Cheryl. The worst part is all the prep work so I don't waste time
figuring out what to do next. :)

--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"singhals" <singhals@erols.com> wrote in message
news:S6udnZp4BId6-PvfRVn-sw@rcn.net...

Good luck with your research.

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