Is Siberia a county?

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Duane Evenson

Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Duane Evenson » 28 mar 2005 07:51:37

My genealogy program, GRAMPS, has the following fields for location:
<title>
<city>
<parish>
<county>
<state>
<country>

This is OK for N. America, I can place townships in <parish> and
provinces in <state>, but a problem arises when dealing with the USSR.
Calling that a country, makes calling Russia a state and Siberia a county.
Also what do you do with the countries who weren't, then were, then
weren't a part of the USSR? Their regions get demoted and promoted in
the location heirarchy.
For the name of a location, is the convention to use the name given as
the primary name and modern names as the alternate or do we try to keep
everything current so the names to the same place are the same?
Finally what wre the countries? in the USSR called -- states, provinces?
What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called -- kingdoms? I know
Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever they're called, as UK
is the country they have to go in the state field, and the province goes
in the county field.
Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland, where
they're demoted to parishes?

Lots of questions trying to shove all the political locations into a
database with less than a score of fields.

Duane Evenson
Edmonton, Alberta

Charani

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Charani » 28 mar 2005 12:28:41

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 06:51:37 GMT, Duane Evenson wrote:

What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called -- kingdoms? I know
Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever they're called, as UK
is the country they have to go in the state field, and the province goes
in the county field.

England and Scotland are kingdoms. Wales, however, is a principality
not a kingdom. Northern Ireland is neither kingdom nor principality.
It's been annexed from Ireland which was a kingdom.

Scotland, like England, Wales and Ireland, has counties not provinces.

To be correct, and using England as an example, the country is England
and the county goes in the county field.

Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland, where
they're demoted to parishes?

Shire is a abbreviation for any county which ends in "shire"

Northern Ireland's counties haven't been demoted to parishes.
Parishes are different things altogether.

Every county has a number of parishes within it and they are the areas
which fall under the remit of a priest (hence the term parish priest)
or other clergyman (vicar, rector, minister, etc)

Parishes are ecclesastical.

The program you are using is geared towards the North American way of
doing things. Some fields you will need to leave blank when dealing
with other countries.

I wouldn't classify Siberia as a county but as a province within the
(now defunct) USSR.

Kevin Ettery

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Kevin Ettery » 28 mar 2005 12:43:09

IMHO Siberia is a Country - it was part of the Union of Soviet Socialist
Republics (USSR), not part of one of the countries that formed it - you
would need to note that it was part of the USSR when relevant.

Regards


Kevin

"Duane Evenson" <duane4@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:ZPN1e.818557$Xk.779328@pd7tw3no...
My genealogy program, GRAMPS, has the following fields for location:
title
city
parish
county
state
country

This is OK for N. America, I can place townships in <parish> and
provinces in <state>, but a problem arises when dealing with the USSR.
Calling that a country, makes calling Russia a state and Siberia a county.
Also what do you do with the countries who weren't, then were, then
weren't a part of the USSR? Their regions get demoted and promoted in
the location heirarchy.
For the name of a location, is the convention to use the name given as
the primary name and modern names as the alternate or do we try to keep
everything current so the names to the same place are the same?
Finally what wre the countries? in the USSR called -- states, provinces?
What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called -- kingdoms? I know
Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever they're called, as UK
is the country they have to go in the state field, and the province goes
in the county field.
Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland, where
they're demoted to parishes?

Lots of questions trying to shove all the political locations into a
database with less than a score of fields.

Duane Evenson
Edmonton, Alberta

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 29 mar 2005 02:31:34

"Kevin Ettery" wrote
IMHO Siberia is a Country - it was part of the Union of Soviet Socialist
Republics (USSR), not part of one of the countries that formed it - you
would need to note that it was part of the USSR when relevant.

Wow. I got difficulties while reading your sentence. But I think, there are
several things, that you mixed-up.
First: Siberia is the Eastern part of Russia itself, which used to be the
biggest "Socialist Republic" of former USSR.
Second: USSR exists only since after WW I (Lenin-Constitution and foundation
of USSR in 1922). Before that, it was Russia as well.

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/siberia.htm

Kevin
Tassilo

Gjest

Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 mar 2005 14:08:18

Duane Evenson wrote in a message to All:

DE> From: Duane Evenson <duane4@shaw.ca>

DE> My genealogy program, GRAMPS, has the following fields for
DE> location: <title>
DE> <city>
DE> <parish>
DE> <county>
DE> <state>
DE> <country>

DE> This is OK for N. America, I can place townships in <parish> and
DE> provinces in <state>, but a problem arises when dealing with the
DE> USSR. Calling that a country, makes calling Russia a state and
DE> Siberia a county. Also what do you do with the countries who
DE> weren't, then were, then weren't a part of the USSR? Their regions
DE> get demoted and promoted in the location heirarchy. For the name of
DE> a location, is the convention to use the name given as the primary
DE> name and modern names as the alternate or do we try to keep
DE> everything current so the names to the same place are the same?
DE> Finally what wre the countries? in the USSR called -- states,
DE> provinces? What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called --
DE> kingdoms? I know Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever
DE> they're called, as UK is the country they have to go in the state
DE> field, and the province goes in the county field.
DE> Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland,
DE> where they're demoted to parishes?

DE> Lots of questions trying to shove all the political locations into
DE> a database with less than a score of fields.

And some have even fewer than that.

I try, where possible, to use place names as they were at the time the event
occurred. But that means a change of levels sometimes.

For example, the South African Republic (ZAR) came to an end with the signing
of the Peace of Vereeniging on 31 May 1902, and became the Transvaal Colony. On
31 May 1910 it became the Transvaal Province of the Union of South Africa. On
27 April 1994 it ceased to be anything but a geographical description, as it
was divided into several new provinces (similar to arguments going on about
English counties pre and post 1974, etc).

Siberia, can be problematic though, because it can be used to mean differnt
things. In general parlance it means Russia east of the Urals, but I think
there may be a district (Oblast) within that area that is also called Siberia.
You could decide to call an Oblast a province or a county.

Within the USSR, Russia was a republic.

Sala kahle

Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.

--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)

Kalish

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Kalish » 30 mar 2005 01:59:53

If someone says they are from Siberia, they are still Russian - like
me saying I'm from New England - I'm still an American. Siberia is
not a separate country - it's part of Russia.

Generally speaking, you should use whatever nomenclature was being
used when the event occurred - so if was the Soviet Union when the
person was born, you can say, "Soviet Union (Russia)" or something
like that. The idea is to record the pertinent information, not to
get bogged down in technicalities.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 06:51:37 GMT, Duane Evenson <duane4@shaw.ca>
wrote:

My genealogy program, GRAMPS, has the following fields for location:
title
city
parish
county
state
country

This is OK for N. America, I can place townships in <parish> and
provinces in <state>, but a problem arises when dealing with the USSR.
Calling that a country, makes calling Russia a state and Siberia a county.
Also what do you do with the countries who weren't, then were, then
weren't a part of the USSR? Their regions get demoted and promoted in
the location heirarchy.
For the name of a location, is the convention to use the name given as
the primary name and modern names as the alternate or do we try to keep
everything current so the names to the same place are the same?
Finally what wre the countries? in the USSR called -- states, provinces?
What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called -- kingdoms? I know
Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever they're called, as UK
is the country they have to go in the state field, and the province goes
in the county field.
Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland, where
they're demoted to parishes?

Lots of questions trying to shove all the political locations into a
database with less than a score of fields.

Duane Evenson
Edmonton, Alberta

mickg

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av mickg » 30 mar 2005 03:26:35

Check out:
http://www.photius.com/countries/russia ... ~1289.html

MickG

Stephen.Hayes@fmlynet.org wrote:
Duane Evenson wrote in a message to All:

DE> From: Duane Evenson <duane4@shaw.ca

DE> My genealogy program, GRAMPS, has the following fields for
DE> location: <title
DE> <city
DE> <parish
DE> <county
DE> <state
DE> <country

DE> This is OK for N. America, I can place townships in <parish> and
DE> provinces in <state>, but a problem arises when dealing with the
DE> USSR. Calling that a country, makes calling Russia a state and
DE> Siberia a county. Also what do you do with the countries who
DE> weren't, then were, then weren't a part of the USSR? Their regions
DE> get demoted and promoted in the location heirarchy. For the name of
DE> a location, is the convention to use the name given as the primary
DE> name and modern names as the alternate or do we try to keep
DE> everything current so the names to the same place are the same?
DE> Finally what wre the countries? in the USSR called -- states,
DE> provinces? What are England, Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland called --
DE> kingdoms? I know Scotland has provinces, so that's not it. Whatever
DE> they're called, as UK is the country they have to go in the state
DE> field, and the province goes in the county field.
DE> Are shires in Ireland the same as counties, except in N. Ireland,
DE> where they're demoted to parishes?

DE> Lots of questions trying to shove all the political locations into
DE> a database with less than a score of fields.

And some have even fewer than that.

I try, where possible, to use place names as they were at the time the event
occurred. But that means a change of levels sometimes.

For example, the South African Republic (ZAR) came to an end with the signing
of the Peace of Vereeniging on 31 May 1902, and became the Transvaal Colony. On
31 May 1910 it became the Transvaal Province of the Union of South Africa. On
27 April 1994 it ceased to be anything but a geographical description, as it
was divided into several new provinces (similar to arguments going on about
English counties pre and post 1974, etc).

Siberia, can be problematic though, because it can be used to mean differnt
things. In general parlance it means Russia east of the Urals, but I think
there may be a district (Oblast) within that area that is also called Siberia.
You could decide to call an Oblast a province or a county.

Within the USSR, Russia was a republic.

Sala kahle

Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com - If it doesn't work, see webpage.

--- WtrGate v0.93.p9 Unreg
* Origin: Khanya BBS, Tshwane, South Africa [012] 333-0004 (8:7903/10)

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 30 mar 2005 15:46:04

"Kalish" wrote
If someone says they are from Siberia, they are still Russian - like
me saying I'm from New England - I'm still an American. Siberia is
not a separate country - it's part of Russia.

Right, but...

Generally speaking, you should use whatever nomenclature was being
used when the event occurred - so if was the Soviet Union when the
person was born, you can say, "Soviet Union (Russia)" or something
like that. The idea is to record the pertinent information, not to
get bogged down in technicalities.

....yet another problem. Before USSR split again, you might even say, that
Russia used to be a kino of "county" from USSR, making Siberia itself...
whatever... local community. Another point is about the souvereignity of
Siberia. It is right to say, that it is part of Russia, but: does it even
exist in real? Like Wales in Britain? Sure, one might say he or she is
Welsh...

Tassilo

f/fgeorge

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av f/fgeorge » 30 mar 2005 16:18:27

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:46:04 +0200, "Tassilo S. Schweiger"
<taschwei@web.de> wrote:


...yet another problem. Before USSR split again, you might even say, that
Russia used to be a kino of "county" from USSR,

Uhhhh...NOT EXACTLY!!! Russia is a word that us non Russians call
Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.

It is kind like us non Germans calling your home Germany when in
actuality for years it was actually the western Federal Republic of
Germany (FRG) and the eastern German Democratic Republic (GDR).
We non Germans just called it East and West Germany.
Today it is called:
Country name conventional long form:Federal Republic of Germany
conventional short form:Germany
local long form:Bundesrepublik Deutschland
local short form:Deutschland
depending on where you are from.
source: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/fa ... overn.html

Tassilo S. Schweiger

Re: Is Siberia a county?

Legg inn av Tassilo S. Schweiger » 30 mar 2005 16:44:12

"f/fgeorge" wrote

...yet another problem. Before USSR split again, you might even say, that
Russia used to be a kino of "county" from USSR,

Uhhhh...NOT EXACTLY!!! Russia is a word that us non Russians call
Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.

As mentioned in my other posting, Russia existed before, and after USSR. Ok,
County would be too less: maybe a state of USSR. I mixed it up, I think...

It is kind like us non Germans calling your home Germany when in
actuality for years it was actually the western Federal Republic of
Germany (FRG) and the eastern German Democratic Republic (GDR).
We non Germans just called it East and West Germany.

Don't worry: yet, there is still a term "Ossis" and "Wessis" to state the
origin from a person either to come from FRG or GDR. Or "Osten" and
"Westen". Because of that, although it is hard to say, one might call the
"Osten" a kind of State of Germany. (There another point has to be
mentioned, that former GDR now exists of 6 or 7 States).

Today it is called:
Country name conventional long form: Federal Republic of Germany
conventional short form: Germany
local long form: Bundesrepublik Deutschland
local short form: Deutschland
depending on where you are from.

Ok, then another expression: the official term was, that GDR associated to
FRG. So now "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" stands for both parts of "Germany".
But the name "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" was the official name of FRG
(means Federal Republic of Germany litteraly translated). The correct german
expression for "GDR" was "Deutsche Demokratische Reupublik" (German
Democratic Republic litteraly translated).


Ok, nice to read...

chief of state:President Johannes RAU (since 1 July 1999)
^^^^^^
not quiet up-to-date, though... changed to "Horst KOEHLER"

Tassilo

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