Lost relative in Kansas

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Herman Viaene

Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 16 jan 2005 22:15:03

A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

TIA

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 16 jan 2005 22:28:43

What is her name and when (approximately was she born)?

Donna in Texas


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:AKydnQQUS_3-RXfcRVnyuA@edpnet.net...
A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

TIA

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Phantom

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Phantom » 16 jan 2005 23:43:41

What part of the city or township can you read. Show everything you can
read here.
"Donna" <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:b_idnfQeeaYRQXfcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
What is her name and when (approximately was she born)?

Donna in Texas


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:AKydnQQUS_3-RXfcRVnyuA@edpnet.net...
A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the
stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

TIA

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)



Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 16 jan 2005 23:59:33

Herman Viaene wrote:

A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

TIA

Herman Viaene
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Send me a copy and I'll see if I can make it out. (I tried email, but there is
a problem with your address. Mine is valid as is).

Bob

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 17 jan 2005 14:57:32

Donna wrote:

What is her name and when (approximately was she born)?

Donna in Texas

The name is Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium). On the

card she seems to sign with "Viaene-Muniz"
You can find her on the ships manifests from the ship "La Savoie" where it
is mentioned that she is to join her husband Leon Flahaut ( a name which
was not known previously to us) in Coalgate Okl.

I tried to find anything on both the Muniz and Flahaut indications, but no
success.

TIA

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 17 jan 2005 15:00:44

Phantom wrote:

What part of the city or township can you read. Show everything you can
read here.

It reads at the bottom "KANSA" and at the top "MUL", both words are cut off.
The "L" from "MUL" is a guess as the character is very vague.

Herman Viaene

Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 17 jan 2005 15:57:27

Herman Viaene wrote:

A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

I received a file from Herman and it can be viewed at:
http://home.comcast.net/~robheil/Exhibi ... tempel.jpg (case sensitive!)

I see MUL?? where the second ? would be B or E. Then looking at the list of
cities at:
http://officialcitysites.org/citylist.p ... cityname=M (a clickable
list)
it would have to be MULBERRY although the B didn't print well. Unfortunately,
there are 3 cities with the name MULBERRY in Kansas.

Bob

Gordon

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Gordon » 17 jan 2005 17:18:40

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 06:57:27 -0800, Robert Heiling
<robheil@comcast.net> wrote:

Herman Viaene wrote:

A relative of mine (a great-great aunt) has migrated from Belgium to the
States in 1910 or 1911.

The only physical evidence of her we have is a postcard of which the stamp
has been torn off, so the postmark left on it is not complete anymore.
But from what is left, it is obvious that the card has been sent from
somewhere in Kansas. The name of the city, township .... is not complete
and difficult to read.

Is anybody volunteering to look at this, I can send you a file with the
postmarks.

I received a file from Herman and it can be viewed at:
http://home.comcast.net/~robheil/Exhibi ... tempel.jpg (case sensitive!)

I see MUL?? where the second ? would be B or E. Then looking at the list of
cities at:
http://officialcitysites.org/citylist.p ... cityname=M (a clickable
list)
it would have to be MULBERRY although the B didn't print well. Unfortunately,
there are 3 cities with the name MULBERRY in Kansas.

Bob

Kansas maps show only two towns that might fit. Mulvane and

Mulberry. Mulvane is just a short distance southeast from Wichita
and Mulberry is in the far southeast corner of the state, near
the Missouri border.

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 17:36:15

Herman, I am sending you the image of the draft registration card of Leon
Flahaut in Phillips, Coal County, Oklahoma. World War I.

Coal County was an interesting place. Men from all over the world came to
work in the coal mines. Its censuses from those early days are quite
fascinating to read. Not much left of Phillips now.

My grandmother lived there for a short time.

Donna in Texas

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 17:47:05

Herman,

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in Coalgate,
Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on his draft
registration card of 1918.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his draft
registration.

Donna in Texas

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 17:52:11

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...
The name is Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium). On the
card she seems to sign with "Viaene-Muniz"
You can find her on the ships manifests from the ship "La Savoie" where it
is mentioned that she is to join her husband Leon Flahaut ( a name which
was not known previously to us) in Coalgate Okl.

Herman,


I am sending two census images one for Leon Flahaut for 1900 and some
Flahaut children in the 1920 census. Cannot find Leon after 1900 nor any
record of Emma.

I have found a Leon Flahaut, age 38, b. Apr 1868 France, in the 1900 U. S.
Census who is in the United States Penitentiary, U. S. Military Reservation,
Leavenworth, Kansas. He immigrated to the USA in 1887 and was naturalized.
He had been married 9 years. He was a coal miner. This probably explains
the Kansas postmark. The children I found are probably his and they are
located in Coal County, Oklahoma.

Mike

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 17:52:16

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...
Donna wrote:

What is her name and when (approximately was she born)?

Donna in Texas

The name is Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium). On the
card she seems to sign with "Viaene-Muniz"
You can find her on the ships manifests from the ship "La Savoie" where it
is mentioned that she is to join her husband Leon Flahaut ( a name which
was not known previously to us) in Coalgate Okl.

I tried to find anything on both the Muniz and Flahaut indications, but no
success.

TIA

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 17:52:21

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...
Donna wrote:

What is her name and when (approximately was she born)?

Donna in Texas

The name is Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium). On the
card she seems to sign with "Viaene-Muniz"
You can find her on the ships manifests from the ship "La Savoie" where it
is mentioned that she is to join her husband Leon Flahaut ( a name which
was not known previously to us) in Coalgate Okl.

I tried to find anything on both the Muniz and Flahaut indications, but no
success.

TIA

Herman Viaene

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 17:55:27

Ernest Flahaut dies in 1978 as follows:

Name: Ernest Flahaut
SSN: 432-10-3822
Last Residence: 74538 Coalgate, Coal, Oklahoma, United States of
America
Born: 6 Aug 1900
Died: Apr 1978
State (Year) SSN issued: Arkansas (Before 1951 )




Donna in Texas



"Donna" <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Bf6dnQ9oLemVcXbcRVn-1g@comcast.com...
Herman,

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in Coalgate,
Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on his draft
registration card of 1918.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

Donna in Texas

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 17:57:34

This must be the death record of Ernest's wife or sister::::


Name: Fannie Flahaut
SSN: 447-09-6268
Last Residence: 74538 Coalgate, Coal, Oklahoma, United States of
America
Born: 19 Jun 1895
Died: Sep 1979
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951 )



Donna








"Donna" <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Bf6dnQ9oLemVcXbcRVn-1g@comcast.com...
Herman,

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in Coalgate,
Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on his draft
registration card of 1918.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

Donna in Texas

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 18:01:07

"Donna" <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R42dnfjbEICYdnbcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
Herman, I am getting a "protocol error" when I try to send you a message.

Could you reply with your correct e-mail?

I am using herman@thuis.be

The email containing the census images also bounced.

Mike

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 18:19:16

Herman,

I am getting your e-mail returned. Could you post your correct e-mail
address?

Donna

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 17 jan 2005 18:22:26

MikeS wrote:

"Donna" <donna.mr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:R42dnfjbEICYdnbcRVn-2A@comcast.com...
Herman, I am getting a "protocol error" when I try to send you a message.

Could you reply with your correct e-mail?

I am using herman@thuis.be

The email containing the census images also bounced.

Mike

It is herman.viaene@edpnet.be

I put a fake address to avoid spamming, it is quite a problem here. Sorry
for that and thanks for the trouble.

Herman
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 17 jan 2005 18:29:33

Donna wrote:

This must be the death record of Ernest's wife or sister::::


Name: Fannie Flahaut
SSN: 447-09-6268
Last Residence: 74538 Coalgate, Coal, Oklahoma, United States of
America
Born: 19 Jun 1895
Died: Sep 1979
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951 )
snip ....


I had already a feeling that the statement of her joining Coalgate was
false, as is her city of departure in the Ellisisland records (there is no
place "Billy" in France). My guess is that she tried to "disappear" as she
left her family in a turmoil: she had divorced just before and in catholic
Belgium at that time it was a disgrace.

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in
Coalgate, Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on
his draft registration card of 1918.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

Donna in Texas


--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 18:35:56

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...

I am sending the 1930 census image for Ernest Flahaut and family. His
wife's name was listed as Maybell in the census. She is found in the Social
Security Death Index as follows:
Name: Mabelle Flahaut
SSN: 443-64-5147
Last Residence: 82431 Lovell, Big Horn, Wyoming, United States of
America
Born: 20 Oct 1903
Died: 9 Sep 1988
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (1973 )

Mike

MikeS

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av MikeS » 17 jan 2005 18:39:24

"MikeS" <archangel@heaven.com> wrote in message
news:0ISGd.24010$Ta2.4427@fe2.texas.rr.com...
"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...

I am sending the 1930 census image for Ernest Flahaut and family. His
wife's name was listed as Maybell in the census.

Also listed in the census image is son Roy. Here is his address and phone
number:

Flahaut, Roy L
176 Washakie Ave
Lovell, WY 82431-1723
307-548-2361

Mike

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 18:50:49

Herman, many of our relatives came to America to leave old troubles behind.
It was a good place to "begin again."

Donna in Texas

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:DZudne67LeOeaHbcRVnysQ@edpnet.net...
Donna wrote:

This must be the death record of Ernest's wife or sister::::


Name: Fannie Flahaut
SSN: 447-09-6268
Last Residence: 74538 Coalgate, Coal, Oklahoma, United States
of
America
Born: 19 Jun 1895
Died: Sep 1979
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951 )
snip ....

I had already a feeling that the statement of her joining Coalgate was
false, as is her city of departure in the Ellisisland records (there is no
place "Billy" in France). My guess is that she tried to "disappear" as she
left her family in a turmoil: she had divorced just before and in catholic
Belgium at that time it was a disgrace.

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in
Coalgate, Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on
his draft registration card of 1918.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

Donna in Texas


--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 18:54:53

I had a grand uncle who also went from Coalgate, Oklahoma, to work in the
coal mines in Wyoming. The coal miners went where the work was.

Donna


"MikeS" <archangel@heaven.com> wrote in message
news:0ISGd.24010$Ta2.4427@fe2.texas.rr.com...
"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Y8CdndDSKdDPXnbcRVnytQ@edpnet.net...

I am sending the 1930 census image for Ernest Flahaut and family. His
wife's name was listed as Maybell in the census. She is found in the
Social Security Death Index as follows:
Name: Mabelle Flahaut
SSN: 443-64-5147
Last Residence: 82431 Lovell, Big Horn, Wyoming, United States of
America
Born: 20 Oct 1903
Died: 9 Sep 1988
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (1973 )

Mike



Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 17 jan 2005 19:12:16

I am flabbergasted-----I looked up the 1920 census in Coal County, Oklahoma,
where Ernest Flahaut is shown-----and he is living in the same household as
my grand uncle Rothwell Gunter!

Ernest is listed as "Brother" living in the household of a widow, Allene
Lanby and her son Arthur. My grand uncle Rothwell Gunter, a young single
man, was boarding with them.

Am sending Herman the image.

By the way, my uncle Roth is listed as unable to speak English, which is
absurd. He was born in the U.S. of parents whose English-speaking families
had been in the U.S. for generations. Herman, beware of errors in the U.S.
censuses!

Donna

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 18 jan 2005 11:56:28

MikeS wrote:

snip a lot...


Thanks both Donna and Mike going to the trouble to get this info, I received
your mails well.
As I feared already and mentioned before, there seems to be no trace in this
family Flahaut of my relative.
I still have to make a few quieries on the suggestions of Robert Heiling,
but the ones I did up to now were in vain.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 18 jan 2005 22:07:59

Herman Viaene wrote:

MikeS wrote:

snip a lot...

Thanks both Donna and Mike going to the trouble to get this info, I received
your mails well.
As I feared already and mentioned before, there seems to be no trace in this
family Flahaut of my relative.
I still have to make a few quieries on the suggestions of Robert Heiling,
but the ones I did up to now were in vain.

I couldn't tell from the image you sent, but the day appears to be JAN 1 and the
year is unreadable except 19?. Did Emma possibly include a date somewhere else
on the postcard? That way we would know when she was near Mulberry. I did
previously do a page-by-page search in the 1930 census of Mulberry for "Emma",
but came up empty-handed. HQ doesn't have an every-name index, but I assume that
others have already used their indexes to look for an Emma born in Belgium of
the right age.

Just out of curiosity, how is Viaene pronounced?

Bob

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 19 jan 2005 10:36:14

Robert Heiling wrote:

Herman Viaene wrote:

MikeS wrote:

snip a lot...


I couldn't tell from the image you sent, but the day appears to be JAN 1
and the year is unreadable except 19?. Did Emma possibly include a date
somewhere else
on the postcard?

Unfortunately not. She did send some more letters to her sister, but this
one burnt them all. Tale goes in the family that Emma married again in the
States (hence the name Muniz???) and she had children.
If that is true, the only hope I have left is that somehow I stumble on a
descendant of hers looking for his/her roots.

That way we would know when she was near Mulberry. I did
previously do a page-by-page search in the 1930 census of Mulberry for
"Emma", but came up empty-handed. HQ doesn't have an every-name index, but
I assume that others have already used their indexes to look for an Emma
born in Belgium of the right age.

Just out of curiosity, how is Viaene pronounced?
Are you a bit familiar with non-English prononciation? I'll try to explain

"sound by sound":
"V" as normal in English,
"i" as you pronounce the letter "e" in summing up the alphabet,
"ae" is an old form of indicating a long "a" sound, like the English
pronounce "dance"
"n" no explanation needed
last "e" is pronounced the same as the end e in date, thus a muted sound.
The whole has always been a stumble stone for native English speakers, I got
used to strange things by now.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

singhals

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av singhals » 19 jan 2005 15:26:45

Herman Viaene wrote:

Robert Heiling wrote:


Herman Viaene wrote:


MikeS wrote:

snip a lot...


I couldn't tell from the image you sent, but the day appears to be JAN 1
and the year is unreadable except 19?. Did Emma possibly include a date
somewhere else
on the postcard?


Unfortunately not. She did send some more letters to her sister, but this
one burnt them all. Tale goes in the family that Emma married again in the
States (hence the name Muniz???) and she had children.
If that is true, the only hope I have left is that somehow I stumble on a
descendant of hers looking for his/her roots.


That way we would know when she was near Mulberry. I did
previously do a page-by-page search in the 1930 census of Mulberry for
"Emma", but came up empty-handed. HQ doesn't have an every-name index, but
I assume that others have already used their indexes to look for an Emma
born in Belgium of the right age.

Just out of curiosity, how is Viaene pronounced?

Are you a bit familiar with non-English prononciation? I'll try to explain
"sound by sound":
"V" as normal in English,
"i" as you pronounce the letter "e" in summing up the alphabet,
"ae" is an old form of indicating a long "a" sound, like the English
pronounce "dance"
"n" no explanation needed
last "e" is pronounced the same as the end e in date, thus a muted sound.
The whole has always been a stumble stone for native English speakers, I got
used to strange things by now.

Herman


Oy. Out in Kansas they didn't necessarily speak either British or
unaccented American. The place had a lot of immigrants, most of 'em German.

The British pronounce the English word dance differently than an
American says it. Neither say it the way a German or Cajun would.
Worse, Muniz is Hispanic, and that accent would change it again.

My point: "like the English pronounce "dance"..." = dahnce; and the
Spanish would give the n a ny sound as in Canyon .. Some
German-Americans would give the v an f or a w (volkswagen?).

Feeahnyce (try Fiance) Weeahnyce or Viands.

Cheryl

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 19 jan 2005 16:50:36

singhals wrote:

Herman Viaene wrote:

Robert Heiling wrote:


Herman Viaene wrote:


MikeS wrote:

snip a lot...


I couldn't tell from the image you sent, but the day appears to be JAN 1
and the year is unreadable except 19?. Did Emma possibly include a date
somewhere else
on the postcard?


Unfortunately not. She did send some more letters to her sister, but this
one burnt them all. Tale goes in the family that Emma married again in
the States (hence the name Muniz???) and she had children.
If that is true, the only hope I have left is that somehow I stumble on a
descendant of hers looking for his/her roots.


That way we would know when she was near Mulberry. I did
previously do a page-by-page search in the 1930 census of Mulberry for
"Emma", but came up empty-handed. HQ doesn't have an every-name index,
but I assume that others have already used their indexes to look for an
Emma born in Belgium of the right age.

Just out of curiosity, how is Viaene pronounced?

Are you a bit familiar with non-English prononciation? I'll try to
explain "sound by sound":
"V" as normal in English,
"i" as you pronounce the letter "e" in summing up the alphabet,
"ae" is an old form of indicating a long "a" sound, like the English
pronounce "dance"
"n" no explanation needed
last "e" is pronounced the same as the end e in date, thus a muted sound.
The whole has always been a stumble stone for native English speakers, I
got used to strange things by now.

Herman


Oy. Out in Kansas they didn't necessarily speak either British or
unaccented American. The place had a lot of immigrants, most of 'em
German.

The British pronounce the English word dance differently than an
American says it. Neither say it the way a German or Cajun would.
Worse, Muniz is Hispanic, and that accent would change it again.

My point: "like the English pronounce "dance"..." = dahnce; and the
Spanish would give the n a ny sound as in Canyon .. Some
German-Americans would give the v an f or a w (volkswagen?).

Feeahnyce (try Fiance) Weeahnyce or Viands.

Cheryl

Following your writing then the name should be pronounced Veeahne

Herman
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 20 jan 2005 02:32:09

Herman Viaene wrote:

Donna wrote:
This must be the death record of Ernest's wife or sister::::
SNIP

I had already a feeling that the statement of her joining Coalgate was
false, as is her city of departure in the Ellisisland records (there is no
place "Billy" in France).

The port of departure was Le Havre and her birthplace is written in the manifest
as what looks to me like Clerkas, France, so that's apparently what the clerk
wrote down when hearing Klerken. They don't let us see that portion of the
handwritten manifest, but I think it's reasonable to assume that her residence
location sounded like "Billy" to the clerk's ears. Where did she actually live
at that time? Perhaps it might sound like "Billy" to the clerk's ear just like
you get different pronunciations of Viaene?

My guess is that she tried to "disappear" as she
left her family in a turmoil: she had divorced just before and in catholic
Belgium at that time it was a disgrace.

Was Viaene her married name? or did she use her maiden name again? Is there
another surname we should also be looking for? There must be a story behind this
all because she must have been corresponding with Leon Flahaut for quite a few
years and perhaps they grew up together and she knew him in Belgium up until
1887 when he emmigrated. Could he have been divorced or widowed at the time in
1911 and she was traveling to marry him?

1868 - Leon Flahaut, born Apr 1868 in France
1871 - Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium)
1887 - Leon Flahaut emmigrates to USA
1891 - Leon Flahaut marries somebody
1911 - Viaene, Emma arrives Ellis Island October 28, 1911
1912 - Jan 1 or some Jan 1 after, a postcard is mailed
1918 - Leon Flahaut lists wife & children on draft card
(what does that card say)

There is also an Ernest Flahaut --- foreign born in 1900 ---- in
Coalgate, Coal County, Oklahoma, who lists his father as Leon Flahaut on
his draft registration card of 1918.

There is a conflict here, because Leon immigrated in 1887 and couldn't have been
the father of a "foreign born in 1900". That must be a census error.

Ernest works in the same coal mine as his father.

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

I'd be interested in seeing that card or what it said.

Donna

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Donna » 20 jan 2005 02:43:42

Robert wrote:

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

I'd be interested in seeing that card or what it said.


It's on its way to you.

Donna

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 20 jan 2005 05:13:19

Donna wrote:

Robert wrote:

By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

I'd be interested in seeing that card or what it said.


It's on its way to you.

Got'em! Thanks, Donna. I've uploaded them to:
http://home.comcast.net/~robheil/Exhibi ... lahaut.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~robheil/Exhibi ... lahaut.jpg
so that others can take a look for discussion purposes.

What those 2 draft registrations reveal is that the Leon must be a son of the
other Leon as he was born in 1898. So we have Ernest (b 6 Aug 1900) & Leon (b
12 Sep 1898), sons of Leon Flahaut (b Apr 1868) pending proof of parentage. So
let's add this to the timeline.

1868 - Leon Flahaut, born Apr 1868 in France
1871 - Emma Viaene, born 24 Jan. 1871 in Klerken (Belgium)
1887 - Leon Flahaut emmigrates to USA
1891 - Leon Flahaut marries somebody
1898 - son Leon (b 12 Sep 1898)
1900 - son Ernest (b 6 Aug 1900)
1911 - Viaene, Emma arrives Ellis Island October 28, 1911
1912 - Jan 1 or some Jan 1 after, a postcard is mailed
1917 - 5 Jun 1917 son Leon draft reg, has wife & child
1918 - 12 Sep 1918 son Ernest draft reg

In the last item, Ernest states his nearest relative as Leon Flahaut of
Coalgate, Coal, OK. His brother Leon was a resident of Phillips, OK a year+
previously and we could assume that he still was. That might mean that he was
referring to his father and that he was still living then.

Bob

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 20 jan 2005 09:50:03

Robert Heiling wrote:

Herman Viaene wrote:

Donna wrote:
This must be the death record of Ernest's wife or sister::::
SNIP

I had already a feeling that the statement of her joining Coalgate was
false, as is her city of departure in the Ellisisland records (there is
no place "Billy" in France).

The port of departure was Le Havre and her birthplace is written in the
manifest as what looks to me like Clerkas, France, so that's apparently
what the clerk
wrote down when hearing Klerken. They don't let us see that portion of
the handwritten manifest,

Yes you can, it is on the next page when you retrieve the manifest from the
Ellisisland records

but I think it's reasonable to assume that her
residence location sounded like "Billy" to the clerk's ears. Where did she
actually live at that time? Perhaps it might sound like "Billy" to the
clerk's ear just like you get different pronunciations of Viaene?

My guess is that she tried to "disappear" as she
left her family in a turmoil: she had divorced just before and in
catholic Belgium at that time it was a disgrace.

Was Viaene her married name?
No, Viaene was her maiden name, she married Camille Kinoo in Langemark

(Belgium) on 20 Feb. 1893 and divorced him in Wijtschate (Belgium) on 7
Nov. 1910. I'm not sure about 1910, but now - and since long - divorced
women cannot use their ex-husbands name anymore after the divorce. In the
divorce papers was noted that she lived in Annay (France - departement Pas
de Calais)

or did she use her maiden name again? Is
there another surname we should also be looking for? There must be a story
behind this all because she must have been corresponding with Leon Flahaut
for quite a few years and perhaps they grew up together
Our family history is quite well documented here and that name came up the

first time in the Ellisisland records. I would be surprised if that would
have been a longlasting relationship.

Beside that , the data that you can find on Leon Flahaut' wife (name and
date of birth do not match even nearly with Emma's. And that does certainly
not explain why she signed "Emma Viaene-Muniz".

and she knew him
in Belgium up until 1887 when he emmigrated. Could he have been divorced
or widowed at the time in 1911 and she was traveling to marry him?

snip ....


By the way, Leon lists a wife and child and dependents in 1918 on his
draft registration.

I'd be interested in seeing that card or what it said.

I got that one from Donna and forwarded it to you.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 20 jan 2005 16:20:07

Herman Viaene wrote:

Robert Heiling wrote:
Herman Viaene wrote:
The port of departure was Le Havre and her birthplace is written in the
manifest as what looks to me like Clerkas, France, so that's apparently
what the clerk
wrote down when hearing Klerken. They don't let us see that portion of
the handwritten manifest,

Yes you can, it is on the next page when you retrieve the manifest from the
Ellisisland records

You're right! I must be out of practice with those.

snip
There must be a story
behind this all because she must have been corresponding with Leon Flahaut
for quite a few years and perhaps they grew up together
Our family history is quite well documented here and that name came up the
first time in the Ellisisland records. I would be surprised if that would
have been a longlasting relationship.

I wasn't suggesting that he was in your family tree, but only that he certainly
was no stranger. She could have known him from school or perhaps he was a
neighbor or maybe she knew his wife.

Beside that , the data that you can find on Leon Flahaut' wife (name and
date of birth do not match even nearly with Emma's.

I assume that you are referring to the 1900 census, but that doesn't effect my
hypothesis for 1911 when Lizzie may have no longer been living. I hadn't looked
at that census before, but since Lizzie Flahaut had been married for 9 years,
the same as the Leon who was in prison, I agree that she is probably his wife. I
note also that the son, Leon, was born Sep 1893 which agrees better with the
age 23 on his draft registration. I now see that the 1898 on it is overwritten
as 1893.

A possible opportunity there is that Lizzie (Elisabeth!) immigrated in 1883 when
she would have been ~8 years old. So her family immigrated from France then and
her maiden name could possibly connect with your family. Are you missing an
Elisabeth?

Bob

Tara

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Tara » 20 jan 2005 20:32:21

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...
snip?
I had already a feeling that the statement of her joining Coalgate was
false, as is her city of departure in the Ellisisland records (there is
no place "Billy" in France).

snip
My guess is that she tried to "disappear" as she
left her family in a turmoil: she had divorced just before and in
catholic Belgium at that time it was a disgrace.

snip
or did she use her maiden name again? Is
there another surname we should also be looking for? There must be a
story
behind this all because she must have been corresponding with Leon
Flahaut
for quite a few years and perhaps they grew up together
Our family history is quite well documented here and that name came up the
first time in the Ellisisland records. I would be surprised if that would
have been a longlasting relationship.

Beside that , the data that you can find on Leon Flahaut' wife (name and
date of birth do not match even nearly with Emma's. And that does
certainly
not explain why she signed "Emma Viaene-Muniz".

and she knew him
in Belgium up until 1887 when he emmigrated. Could he have been divorced
or widowed at the time in 1911 and she was traveling to marry him?


Sorry I'm late getting to the party..... I've been following this thread and
doing some searches, but didn't have anything to add until now.

I also think it's possible that the "Husband Leon Flahaut" note in the Ellis
Island records is a red herring. The only info I can find on Leon Flahaut is
for a man much too young to be Emma's husband. I suspect he was a family
friend of some sort and she used his name while traveling rather than being
seen as a single woman traveling alone, or worse, as a divorced woman! :-)

In doing searches for records in Crawford County, Kansas, I came across a
fairly large French family named Merciez, which could look like Muniz when
written. Is there a chance that the name on the postcard is Merciez? Their
origins in America seem to start with three brothers, as near as I can
figure, who immigrated around 1886, first to Oklahoma and then to Cherokee
and Crawford Co., Kansas. One of them, Edward, married an Anna Flahout,
probably in Oklahoma. I thought if Emma was staying with the Flahaut's in
Oklahoma, she may have met the Merciez's through them. There's a Henry
Merciez in Kansas in the 1910 census who's wife seems to be named Deirdre.
In 1930 he seems to be remarried to a woman named Emily, born about 1873.
That's close enough to Emma, I thought some others could take a look at it
and see what they think.

Also, on the postmark, there seems to be a tail coming out from under where
the stamp was, where the 3rd digit of the year would be. It makes me think
that it was probably written in the 1930s or maybe 20's, rather than the
teens. The 1's on the postmark are straight, no "foot" at the bottom to peek
out from the stamped area. Or, it could just be a smudge.... had to tell.

Anyway, that's all I have for the moment. Just more speculations, nothing
solid yet.

--Tara

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 21 jan 2005 10:46:55

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I also think it's possible that the "Husband Leon Flahaut" note in the
Ellis Island records is a red herring. The only info I can find on Leon
Flahaut is for a man much too young to be Emma's husband. I suspect he was
a family friend of some sort and she used his name while traveling rather
than being seen as a single woman traveling alone, or worse, as a divorced
woman! :-)

In doing searches for records in Crawford County, Kansas, I came across a
fairly large French family named Merciez, which could look like Muniz when
written. Is there a chance that the name on the postcard is Merciez? Their
origins in America seem to start with three brothers, as near as I can
figure, who immigrated around 1886, first to Oklahoma and then to Cherokee
and Crawford Co., Kansas. One of them, Edward, married an Anna Flahout,
probably in Oklahoma. I thought if Emma was staying with the Flahaut's in
Oklahoma, she may have met the Merciez's through them. There's a Henry
Merciez in Kansas in the 1910 census who's wife seems to be named Deirdre.
In 1930 he seems to be remarried to a woman named Emily, born about 1873.
That's close enough to Emma, I thought some others could take a look at it
and see what they think.

I sent you an image of Emma's signature on the postcard, have a try at it.
The birth date is close enough. Is 1930 the date of the marriage or the
first date you find it recorded? I'm still hoping some descendant might
show up - one never knows????

Also, on the postmark, there seems to be a tail coming out from under
where the stamp was, where the 3rd digit of the year would be. It makes me
think that it was probably written in the 1930s or maybe 20's, rather than
the teens. The 1's on the postmark are straight, no "foot" at the bottom
to peek out from the stamped area. Or, it could just be a smudge.... had
to tell.

We don't have any information when this card was sent or received, but the

card itself is something special.
Emma received a photo of one of her younger brothers (Julien Viaene) by
mediation of the Red Cross. She had this photo made into a postcard and
sent it to her relatives in Belgium. Julien was mobilized in the Belgian
Army at the outbreak of World War I in 1914 and has been taken prisoner of
war by the Germans in the first weeks of the war. He remained POW for the
whole duration of the year.
The USA entered WW I only in 1917, before that it was a neutral country and
there were even US relief organizations active in Belgian German-occupied
territories.
My whole family, who lived in the Ypres region before (the region of the
front line) had fled to France in 1914, where they remained (some of them
never returned) until about 1920. The card was sent to an address in
France.
So I believe that this photo is linked to Julien being POW, and the original
photo has been sent to her in the USA at last before the USA entered the
war. After that date, I can hardly believe that the Red Cross would have
been allowed to send anything to an enemy country.
There would not be a point for Emma to send this card over after the end of
the war, since Julien would have returned to his family long before these
cards would have crossed the ocean.

Herman
--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Tara

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Tara » 21 jan 2005 21:12:34

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:Q4ydnYUYYvEWU23cRVnysQ@edpnet.net...
I sent you an image of Emma's signature on the postcard, have a try at it.
The birth date is close enough. Is 1930 the date of the marriage or the
first date you find it recorded? I'm still hoping some descendant might
show up - one never knows????


In looking at the signature, I think it's possible that the second name is
Merciez, but you're right, it looks more like Muniz or maybe even Museiz. In
looking at the 2 lower case "e"s in Viaene, you can see she doesn't put
distinct loops in them. They're more pointy, like most people would make a
lower case "i." So, it's possible that the "u" is actually an "er." It's
hard to tell. The signature is scrunched up at the bottom of the page and
difficult to read. If anyone else wants to have a go at it, I posted a copy
of it here:
http://family.iparagon.net/sites/Tara/G ... 20emma.jpg

As for Emily Merciez, I can't find a date for her marriage to Henry. It
takes place somewhere after the 1920 census when Henry is married to a woman
named Diesley/Deesley (my first impression of Dierdre was wrong). Then in
the 1930 census, Emily shows up, age 57, 4 years older than Diesley was. The
1930 census doesn't indicate that this was a second marriage for Henry or
Emily, although that was often not noted. It also has Emily's immigration
year as 1885, which doesn't match with your other info. That's not unusual.
I'd guess that among the immigration dates I find on censuses, they're only
correct about half the time. On the 4 I have for Henry Merciez, he gives
1888 twice, 1886 once and another that they changed several times so that
it's unreadable.

Overall, I'd guess that the chance that Emma Viaene and Emily Merciez are
the same person is low, but there is a small chance. You might be right that
your best chance is to find a descendant who knows more. There is a family
tree here:
http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi ... e&id=I4244
It appears to be from a Merciez descendant and maybe she knows more than she
has posted.

Also, here are 2 Merciez obituaries, both fairly recent, that have some
names of survivors. Perhaps you can find a phone number or address listed on
the internet for them and get in touch and perhaps they will know more.


Rose Shriver, 95, of Pittsburg, died at 5:30 a.m. Thursday, Jan. 6, 2005
at the
Cornerstone Village Retirement Center in Pittsburg.
She was born March 19, 1909 in Scammon to Edward and Anna (Flahout)
Merciez. She was a long time resident.
In 1927 she was married Louis Shriver. He preceded her in death on
Dec. 3, 1970.
Survivors include her three grandchildren; several great-grandchildren;
and several
nieces and nephews.
She was preceded in death by her parents; a son, Jules Shriver; two
brothers,
Ed and Mike Merciez; two sisters, Clara Larson and Sophie Phelps.
Funeral services will be at 1 p.m. Saturday, at the Bath-Naylor Funeral
Home, with
Fr. Thomas Stroot officiating. Burial will follow in the Garden of Memories
Cemetery in
Pittsburg. The family will receive friends from 7 to 8 p.m. today at the
funeral home after
4 p.m. E-mail condolences may be sent to admin@bathnaylor.kscoxmail.com.
Arrangements are under the direction of the Bath-Naylor Funeral Home, 5
22 S. Broadway.


Edith (Merciez) Chiolino of Louisville (Colorado) died Sunday, Dec. 19,
2004,
at her home. She was 95 years old.
Ms. Chiolino was born Feb. 21, 1909, to Jules and Marie Bezinque
Merciez in Corona, Kan.
On Nov. 28, 1925, she married John Chiolino in Scammon, Kan.
She moved to Boulder County (Colorado) in 1930.
Ms. Chiolino is survived by two daughters, Maxine McHugh of Louisville
and Lois Tesone of Niwot; a son, John Chiolino of Louisville; a sister,
Amelia
Lasalle; 12 grandchildren, 27 great-grandchildren and four
great-great-grandchildren.
She was preceded in death by her husband, John; and, four brothers and
four
sisters.
Funeral services will be held at 11 a.m., Wednesday, Dec. 22, at the
Avalon
Funeral Home, 1320 Centaur Village Drive, Lafayette. Interment will follow
at the
Louisville Cemetery in Louisville.
Memorial contributions may be made to Companion Connections, in care of
Elder Care, 465 N. Denver Ave., No. 101, Loveland, Colo., 80537, or the
charity of the donor's choice.

Also, I can't find any marriage or death records online for Crawford County,
Kansas, but the local Genealogy Library has a list of records that they own
and an email address listed here:
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/kansas/genweb/ ... ciety.html
They seem to indicate that they will do research, so perhaps writing to them
will help you find a maiden name for Emily Merciez, and you can make a
determination on her one way or the other. Or maybe the name Muniz will ring
a bell and they can help in that direction.

I've searched everywhere I can think of for records on Emma. Hopefully
someone else here can come up with something because I'm stumped.

--
Tara Larkin
Remove NO SPAM to reply by email.

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 27 jan 2005 19:50:17

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly what it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a list of
names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole matter then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-) IAC, I
have something new to report now.

snip
or did she use her maiden name again? Is
there another surname we should also be looking for? There must be a
story
behind this all because she must have been corresponding with Leon
Flahaut
for quite a few years and perhaps they grew up together
Our family history is quite well documented here and that name came up the
first time in the Ellisisland records. I would be surprised if that would
have been a longlasting relationship.

Beside that , the data that you can find on Leon Flahaut' wife (name and
date of birth do not match even nearly with Emma's. And that does
certainly
not explain why she signed "Emma Viaene-Muniz".

I don't believe it says "-Muniz".

and she knew him
in Belgium up until 1887 when he emmigrated. Could he have been divorced
or widowed at the time in 1911 and she was traveling to marry him?

Sorry I'm late getting to the party..... I've been following this thread and
doing some searches, but didn't have anything to add until now.

I also think it's possible that the "Husband Leon Flahaut" note in the Ellis
Island records is a red herring.

Leon and the postcard are the only clues we have!

The only info I can find on Leon Flahaut is
for a man much too young to be Emma's husband.

I couldn't tell if you said that before reading Mike's post that gave the elder
Leon or not, but since you didn't correct that statement I'll present what we
do know him & family. He was the same age as Emma (~3 yrs older). Although
more proof would be desirable, we have the following:

Leon Flahaut, b. Apr 1868, France [1]
Lizzie Unknown, b. Jul 1875, France [2]
Marriage: abt. 1891 [1, 2]
Children:
Allvie, b. Oct 1891, Indian Terr [2]
Leon, b. 12 Sep 1893, Indian Terr [2, 4]
Blanche, b. Jan 1896, Indian Terr [2]
Ernest, b. 6 Aug 1900 [3]
Sources, (abbreviated)
1. 1900 census, Fort Leavenworth, Leavenworth, KS
2. 1900 census, a Range, Choctaw, Indian Territory
3. Draft registration - Ernest Flahaut
4. Draft registration - Leon Flahaut

I suspect he was a family
friend of some sort

Yes and he's the best clue available. We know that he was in a Federal
penitentiary in 1900 for what, by definition, would have to have been a Federal
crime. Could there be a clue in that? By 1910, the new Leavenworth penitentiary
had been built and Fort Leavenworth where he had been turned back over to the
military. I couldn't find the new one in the 1910 census although I didn't do an
exhaustive search for it. Perhaps it did not participate in the 1910 census on a
"by name basis" and that would account for Leon being missing from the census?
He would have been released there in Kansas and it is only 130 miles from where
the postcard was sent. So is that why she was in Kansas?

and she used his name while traveling rather than being
seen as a single woman traveling alone, or worse, as a divorced woman! :-)

But how she represented herself to the ship's captain on that manifest would not
have been seen by her fellow passengers.

In doing searches for records in Crawford County, Kansas, I came across a
fairly large French family named Merciez, which could look like Muniz when
written. Is there a chance that the name on the postcard is Merciez? <SNIP

It certainly wasn't without a lot of false starts, but after analyzing that
postcard in an imaging program I believe that she was only in essence signing as
"Emma Viaene in Kansas, USA". Look at the various penstrokes and look for what
was continuous writing and also for where the pen was lifted. The following
shows the letter grouping and the spaces emphasize where the pen was lifted off
the paper:
"in ks us" and maybe "usa" No surname clues there!

Anyway, that's all I have for the moment. Just more speculations, nothing
solid yet. Tara

Likewise, although I had thought a certain base had been covered and discovered
in a thread yesterday that it had probably not been. I had previously thought
that Ancestry.com had all-name indexes for all the censuses, but see now that it
doesn't for 1910 & 1920 and only has a HOH like HQ. :-( I had previously
thought that those with Ancestry had looked for "Emma" & "Leon" in 1910 & 1920.
:-( So there is still potential there.

HTH
Bob

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 28 jan 2005 10:11:01

Robert Heiling wrote:

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly what
it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a list
of names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole matter
then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-)
IAC, I have something new to report now.


....snip a whole lot....

Sorry, I did not respond earlier to you, I appreciate your effort. But there
are two reasons.
1. I tried and found a few e-mail addresses of Flahaut's descendants
somewhere a year ago. I mailed these people, but no answer. So, this is
about dead-end for me. I have no clue where to look any further.
2. I went on Tara's suggestion and e-mailed the person who is indicated as
the contact person for the "Merciez" family, just a few days ago. I'll keep
you informed of any answers I receive.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Tara

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Tara » 29 jan 2005 18:03:58

To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m" in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma, where
she lifts the pen between each letter. It did really bug me though that I
couldn't find Emma anywhere in the census, so I went back and looked again.
Don't know how the heck I was searching last time and not finding anything,
but this time I found a good possibility fairly quickly. I'm sending the 2
images to Herman, and here's the refs for anyone that wants to check them
out.

Name: Athos Manitez/Muniez
Age: 44 years
Estimated birth year: 1875
Birthplace: France
Race: White
Home in 1920: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Roll: T625_528
Page: 11B
ED: 114

Name: Athos Manier
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to head-of-house: Father
Home in 1930: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Image source: Year: 1930; Census Place: Washington, Crawford, Kansas;
Roll: 699; Page: ; Enumeration District: 40; Image: 470.0.

If it is Emma, it still doesn't solve the mystery of exactly what the
surname is since it's sloppy in 1920 and obviously wrong in 1930. Although,
I think I've found the first wife and a brother (of Athos) coming through
Ellis Island and it looks like Maniez there. Also, they mention being from
Billy Bertlan, similar to Emma's response of Billy, France.

First Name: Rigault
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France, French
Last Place of Residence: Bethune
Date of Arrival: March 05, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: La Lorraine
Port of Departure: Havre
Manifest Line Number: 0021

First Name: Angele
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France French
Last Place of Residence: Billy Bertlan
Date of Arrival: May 05, 1903
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kroonland
Port of Departure: Antwerp
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Anyway, what do you think? A good possibility for Emma?

--
Tara Larkin
Remove NO SPAM to reply by email.


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:c9udnVr7O7R4nWfcRVnygw@edpnet.net...
Robert Heiling wrote:

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly
what
it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a
list
of names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole matter
then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-)
IAC, I have something new to report now.


...snip a whole lot....

Sorry, I did not respond earlier to you, I appreciate your effort. But
there
are two reasons.
1. I tried and found a few e-mail addresses of Flahaut's descendants
somewhere a year ago. I mailed these people, but no answer. So, this is
about dead-end for me. I have no clue where to look any further.
2. I went on Tara's suggestion and e-mailed the person who is indicated as
the contact person for the "Merciez" family, just a few days ago. I'll
keep
you informed of any answers I receive.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 29 jan 2005 19:19:00

Tara wrote:

To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m" in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma, where
she lifts the pen between each letter. <snip

Then I guess I'll need to plead my case. :-) and I understand that, because it
took me a long time and many false surname/placename checks before the light
bulb came on and I said to myself: "of course!".

It's not very neat handwriting to begin with and being limited in space by the
size of a postcard probably contributed to the problems. To begin with, what has
been characterized as a hyphen as in a hyphenated-surname is actually vertical &
not horizontal.

Coming off the terminal e in Viaene, the pen-pressure lightens until it is
almost at the top of a letter i, goes a very short distance straight upwards,
has heavy pressure going straight downwards, and then retraces upwards and goes
to the right as it goes to form the entry portion of a letter n as it would be
shaped for a standalone or terminal n. The pen is then totally lifted and moves
right for the distance between *words*, not between *letters*! That is what I'm
saying is the word "in".

The pen next draws a single vertical downstroke (tilted) such as the vertical
bar in a k and lifts completely from the paper. The pen then draws the rest of
the letter k & goes on the form an s and lifts again from the paper. The
terminal sweep on that s was crossed by the first leg of a u in the next word.
That what I'm saying is "ks".

I'll stop there. Hope that wasn't as clear as mud. :-)

Bob

Doug Corbin

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Doug Corbin » 29 jan 2005 22:34:22

It looks pretty good to me. I did some searching when this message first
appeared but have mostly lurked. Have you found Athos and his family in
1910? I looked but couldn't. I couldn't find his immigration record either.

Here's a link I found using Google to a Maniez query on a Crawford Co, KS
message board:

<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/localities.northam.usa.states.
kansas.counties.Crawford/405>

Doug


"Tara" <NOtnlarkinSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2mPKd.1114$cl1.525@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m"
in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma, where
she lifts the pen between each letter. It did really bug me though that I
couldn't find Emma anywhere in the census, so I went back and looked
again.
Don't know how the heck I was searching last time and not finding
anything,
but this time I found a good possibility fairly quickly. I'm sending the 2
images to Herman, and here's the refs for anyone that wants to check them
out.

Name: Athos Manitez/Muniez
Age: 44 years
Estimated birth year: 1875
Birthplace: France
Race: White
Home in 1920: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Roll: T625_528
Page: 11B
ED: 114

Name: Athos Manier
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to head-of-house: Father
Home in 1930: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Image source: Year: 1930; Census Place: Washington, Crawford, Kansas;
Roll: 699; Page: ; Enumeration District: 40; Image: 470.0.

If it is Emma, it still doesn't solve the mystery of exactly what the
surname is since it's sloppy in 1920 and obviously wrong in 1930.
Although,
I think I've found the first wife and a brother (of Athos) coming through
Ellis Island and it looks like Maniez there. Also, they mention being from
Billy Bertlan, similar to Emma's response of Billy, France.

First Name: Rigault
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France, French
Last Place of Residence: Bethune
Date of Arrival: March 05, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: La Lorraine
Port of Departure: Havre
Manifest Line Number: 0021

First Name: Angele
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France French
Last Place of Residence: Billy Bertlan
Date of Arrival: May 05, 1903
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kroonland
Port of Departure: Antwerp
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Anyway, what do you think? A good possibility for Emma?

--
Tara Larkin
Remove NO SPAM to reply by email.


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:c9udnVr7O7R4nWfcRVnygw@edpnet.net...
Robert Heiling wrote:

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was
more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly
what
it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a
list
of names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole matter
then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-)
IAC, I have something new to report now.


...snip a whole lot....

Sorry, I did not respond earlier to you, I appreciate your effort. But
there
are two reasons.
1. I tried and found a few e-mail addresses of Flahaut's descendants
somewhere a year ago. I mailed these people, but no answer. So, this is
about dead-end for me. I have no clue where to look any further.
2. I went on Tara's suggestion and e-mailed the person who is indicated
as
the contact person for the "Merciez" family, just a few days ago. I'll
keep
you informed of any answers I receive.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)


Doug Corbin

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Doug Corbin » 29 jan 2005 23:22:04

Here's a cemetery reading from Crawford Co:

Rosebank Cemetery
Mulberry, Crawford County, Kansas

Maniez, Atos, b. 1876, d. 1960
Maniez, Elma, b. 1871, d. 1926, w/o Athos

"Tara" <NOtnlarkinSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2mPKd.1114$cl1.525@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m"
in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma, where
she lifts the pen between each letter. It did really bug me though that I
couldn't find Emma anywhere in the census, so I went back and looked
again.
Don't know how the heck I was searching last time and not finding
anything,
but this time I found a good possibility fairly quickly. I'm sending the 2
images to Herman, and here's the refs for anyone that wants to check them
out.

Name: Athos Manitez/Muniez
Age: 44 years
Estimated birth year: 1875
Birthplace: France
Race: White
Home in 1920: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Roll: T625_528
Page: 11B
ED: 114

Name: Athos Manier
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to head-of-house: Father
Home in 1930: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Image source: Year: 1930; Census Place: Washington, Crawford, Kansas;
Roll: 699; Page: ; Enumeration District: 40; Image: 470.0.

If it is Emma, it still doesn't solve the mystery of exactly what the
surname is since it's sloppy in 1920 and obviously wrong in 1930.
Although,
I think I've found the first wife and a brother (of Athos) coming through
Ellis Island and it looks like Maniez there. Also, they mention being from
Billy Bertlan, similar to Emma's response of Billy, France.

First Name: Rigault
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France, French
Last Place of Residence: Bethune
Date of Arrival: March 05, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: La Lorraine
Port of Departure: Havre
Manifest Line Number: 0021

First Name: Angele
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France French
Last Place of Residence: Billy Bertlan
Date of Arrival: May 05, 1903
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kroonland
Port of Departure: Antwerp
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Anyway, what do you think? A good possibility for Emma?

--
Tara Larkin
Remove NO SPAM to reply by email.


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:c9udnVr7O7R4nWfcRVnygw@edpnet.net...
Robert Heiling wrote:

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was
more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly
what
it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a
list
of names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole matter
then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-)
IAC, I have something new to report now.


...snip a whole lot....

Sorry, I did not respond earlier to you, I appreciate your effort. But
there
are two reasons.
1. I tried and found a few e-mail addresses of Flahaut's descendants
somewhere a year ago. I mailed these people, but no answer. So, this is
about dead-end for me. I have no clue where to look any further.
2. I went on Tara's suggestion and e-mailed the person who is indicated
as
the contact person for the "Merciez" family, just a few days ago. I'll
keep
you informed of any answers I receive.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)


Robert Heiling

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Robert Heiling » 30 jan 2005 00:16:53

Tara wrote:

To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m" in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma, where
she lifts the pen between each letter. It did really bug me though that I
couldn't find Emma anywhere in the census, so I went back and looked again.
Don't know how the heck I was searching last time and not finding anything,
but this time I found a good possibility fairly quickly. I'm sending the 2
images to Herman, and here's the refs for anyone that wants to check them
out.

Name: Athos Manitez/Muniez
Age: 44 years
Estimated birth year: 1875
Birthplace: France
Race: White
Home in 1920: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Roll: T625_528
Page: 11B
ED: 114

Name: Athos Manier
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to head-of-house: Father
Home in 1930: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Image source: Year: 1930; Census Place: Washington, Crawford, Kansas;
Roll: 699; Page: ; Enumeration District: 40; Image: 470.0.

If it is Emma, it still doesn't solve the mystery of exactly what the
surname is since it's sloppy in 1920 and obviously wrong in 1930. Although,
I think I've found the first wife and a brother (of Athos) coming through
Ellis Island and it looks like Maniez there. Also, they mention being from
Billy Bertlan, similar to Emma's response of Billy, France.

HQ has him as Athor Maniez which is the surname spelling for his wife at Ellis
I.

First Name: Rigault
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France, French
Last Place of Residence: Bethune
Date of Arrival: March 05, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: La Lorraine
Port of Departure: Havre
Manifest Line Number: 0021

First Name: Angele
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France French
Last Place of Residence: Billy Bertlan
Date of Arrival: May 05, 1903
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kroonland
Port of Departure: Antwerp
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Anyway, what do you think? A good possibility for Emma?

I don't think there's any question about it. You've found her! Congratulations!
:-)
All the parameters match. Name, age, year of immigration, nationality, origin,
etc. Apparently the wife, Angele, died. It doesn't appear that Emma gave birth
to any children as those were older and the product of the previous marriage.
Perhaps that's what she might have meant in regard to having children. Case
closed so far as I can tell except for some minor loose ends.

Bob

Herman Viaene

Re: Lost relative in Kansas

Legg inn av Herman Viaene » 30 jan 2005 10:47:13

I put a message on the message board that Doug found, hoping for a final
confirmation. It seems all your efforts did have success.

Many thanks to Tara, Robert, Donna and Doug for taking interest in my
question and bringing result to it.

If ever I can return the favor, or you happen to pass in Belgium, send me a
mail.

Herman


Doug Corbin wrote:

Here's a cemetery reading from Crawford Co:

Rosebank Cemetery
Mulberry, Crawford County, Kansas

Maniez, Atos, b. 1876, d. 1960
Maniez, Elma, b. 1871, d. 1926, w/o Athos

"Tara" <NOtnlarkinSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2mPKd.1114$cl1.525@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
To Bob and Herman,

I couldn't really see the "in KS US" in the postcard pic. To me, the "m"
in
Muniz (or whatever it is) looked too much like the two "m"s in Emma,
where she lifts the pen between each letter. It did really bug me though
that I couldn't find Emma anywhere in the census, so I went back and
looked
again.
Don't know how the heck I was searching last time and not finding
anything,
but this time I found a good possibility fairly quickly. I'm sending the
2 images to Herman, and here's the refs for anyone that wants to check
them out.

Name: Athos Manitez/Muniez
Age: 44 years
Estimated birth year: 1875
Birthplace: France
Race: White
Home in 1920: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Roll: T625_528
Page: 11B
ED: 114

Name: Athos Manier
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to head-of-house: Father
Home in 1930: Washington, Crawford, Kansas
Image source: Year: 1930; Census Place: Washington, Crawford, Kansas;
Roll: 699; Page: ; Enumeration District: 40; Image: 470.0.

If it is Emma, it still doesn't solve the mystery of exactly what the
surname is since it's sloppy in 1920 and obviously wrong in 1930.
Although,
I think I've found the first wife and a brother (of Athos) coming through
Ellis Island and it looks like Maniez there. Also, they mention being
from Billy Bertlan, similar to Emma's response of Billy, France.

First Name: Rigault
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France, French
Last Place of Residence: Bethune
Date of Arrival: March 05, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: La Lorraine
Port of Departure: Havre
Manifest Line Number: 0021

First Name: Angele
Last Name: Maniez
Ethnicity: France French
Last Place of Residence: Billy Bertlan
Date of Arrival: May 05, 1903
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kroonland
Port of Departure: Antwerp
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Anyway, what do you think? A good possibility for Emma?

--
Tara Larkin
Remove NO SPAM to reply by email.


"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:c9udnVr7O7R4nWfcRVnygw@edpnet.net...
Robert Heiling wrote:

Tara wrote:

"Herman Viaene" <herman@thuis.be> wrote in message
news:I92dnSjMG5QT7XLcRVnyrg@edpnet.net...

I had previously tried to keep this thread going as I felt there was
more
investigation that could be done although I wasn't quite sure exactly
what
it
was. Since Mr Viaene didn't trouble himself to respond regarding a
list
of names I emailed him, I probably should have dropped the whole
matter then &
there, but once you get the scent on the trail it's hard to stop. :-)
IAC, I have something new to report now.


...snip a whole lot....

Sorry, I did not respond earlier to you, I appreciate your effort. But
there
are two reasons.
1. I tried and found a few e-mail addresses of Flahaut's descendants
somewhere a year ago. I mailed these people, but no answer. So, this is
about dead-end for me. I have no clue where to look any further.
2. I went on Tara's suggestion and e-mailed the person who is indicated
as
the contact person for the "Merciez" family, just a few days ago. I'll
keep
you informed of any answers I receive.

Herman

--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G.
Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G.
Bomans)



--
Veel mensen danken hun goed geweten aan hun slecht geheugen. (G. Bomans)

Lots of people owe their good conscience to their bad memory (G. Bomans)

Svar

Gå tilbake til «alt.genealogy»