Heraldry help please
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Robin Lithaborn
Heraldry help please
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
I wondered if any of you good folk could look it up for me. It would be
incredible if someone could let me know, or point me in the right
direction to look up coats of arms based on full name, which is what I
saw in the book.
The name in question is JAMES ROLAND SUTTON and I swear I did see a
specific description for that whole name. I have a family tree which
goes back to the 19th century, so hopefully this info will take me
further back.
Cheers for any help.
PS: There's a Thai branch in my family too, which I'd love to follow up.
Any idea how I'd do this without having to learn to read siamese?
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
I wondered if any of you good folk could look it up for me. It would be
incredible if someone could let me know, or point me in the right
direction to look up coats of arms based on full name, which is what I
saw in the book.
The name in question is JAMES ROLAND SUTTON and I swear I did see a
specific description for that whole name. I have a family tree which
goes back to the 19th century, so hopefully this info will take me
further back.
Cheers for any help.
PS: There's a Thai branch in my family too, which I'd love to follow up.
Any idea how I'd do this without having to learn to read siamese?
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
-
Robin Lithaborn
Re: Heraldry help please
Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Sorry, I should say, UK based. Specifically tyneside, although we now
live in Birmingham.
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
Sorry, I should say, UK based. Specifically tyneside, although we now
live in Birmingham.
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
-
Charani
Re: Heraldry help please
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:04:26 +0000, Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Hi
)
This is a discussion we've had recently at great length.
The coat of arms which you saw would have been awarded to a specific
person and *not* to a family. Although it is nice to have someone in
the family who bore arms, please, forget about it. Concentrate on
tracing your family first and looking for any coats of arms later when
you've found someone who was awarded them. They would have been a
knight or higher. You could then contact the College of Arms in
London for full details.
Someone in my family was awarded arms back in the 14th century but
today no one in the family is entitled to bear them. Several of us
have drawings, engravings and one of my cousins has a seal engraved
ring, as do I *but* none of us displays them, has them embroidered on
a tie or polo shirt, embossed on letter head or anything else because
the arms aren't ours. They belong to an ancestor who was married to
an Arundell.
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
Hi
This is a discussion we've had recently at great length.
The coat of arms which you saw would have been awarded to a specific
person and *not* to a family. Although it is nice to have someone in
the family who bore arms, please, forget about it. Concentrate on
tracing your family first and looking for any coats of arms later when
you've found someone who was awarded them. They would have been a
knight or higher. You could then contact the College of Arms in
London for full details.
Someone in my family was awarded arms back in the 14th century but
today no one in the family is entitled to bear them. Several of us
have drawings, engravings and one of my cousins has a seal engraved
ring, as do I *but* none of us displays them, has them embroidered on
a tie or polo shirt, embossed on letter head or anything else because
the arms aren't ours. They belong to an ancestor who was married to
an Arundell.
-
Robin Lithaborn
Re: Heraldry help please
Charani wrote:
Damn! Oh well, it would still be nice to find out about it to satisfy my
curiosity and put my memory right.
Thanks for the other info, too.
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:04:26 +0000, Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
Hi)
This is a discussion we've had recently at great length.
The coat of arms which you saw would have been awarded to a specific
person and *not* to a family.
Damn! Oh well, it would still be nice to find out about it to satisfy my
curiosity and put my memory right.
Thanks for the other info, too.
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
-
Charani
Re: Heraldry help please
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:49:11 +0000, Robin Lithaborn wrote:
YW
)
There's no harm in finding out
)
Good luck and I hope you find the person who bore arms is related to
you
)
Damn! Oh well, it would still be nice to find out about it to satisfy my
curiosity and put my memory right.
Thanks for the other info, too.
YW
There's no harm in finding out
Good luck and I hope you find the person who bore arms is related to
you
-
cwsachs.dejazzd.com
Re: Heraldry help please
You may wish to check out:
http://www.bjhughes.org/sutton5.html
There a whole "bunch" of Sutton folks here. Perhaps the the "keeper" of
the info can help.
Carl
Robin Lithaborn wrote:
http://www.bjhughes.org/sutton5.html
There a whole "bunch" of Sutton folks here. Perhaps the the "keeper" of
the info can help.
Carl
Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
I wondered if any of you good folk could look it up for me. It would be
incredible if someone could let me know, or point me in the right
direction to look up coats of arms based on full name, which is what I
saw in the book.
The name in question is JAMES ROLAND SUTTON and I swear I did see a
specific description for that whole name. I have a family tree which
goes back to the 19th century, so hopefully this info will take me
further back.
Cheers for any help.
PS: There's a Thai branch in my family too, which I'd love to follow up.
Any idea how I'd do this without having to learn to read siamese?
-
William Barfieldsr
Re: Heraldry help please
"Robin Lithaborn" <gemini_hedgewitch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:33inb7F3v6kfgU2@individual.net...
Perhaps what you saw was a family crest rather than a coat of arms. I
believe there is a difference between the two. One represents a person and
one represents a family.
--
William Barfieldsr
news:33inb7F3v6kfgU2@individual.net...
Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Hi
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for
a name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds
to look at it and didn't write anything down.
Sorry, I should say, UK based. Specifically tyneside, although we now
live in Birmingham.
--
Another year, another chance to get it right.
-={ http://hedgewitch.blogspot.com }=-
Perhaps what you saw was a family crest rather than a coat of arms. I
believe there is a difference between the two. One represents a person and
one represents a family.
--
William Barfieldsr
-
Charani
Re: Heraldry help please
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:30:31 -0600, William Barfieldsr wrote:
The crest is a part of the coat of arms I believe.
The coat of arms for my ancestor is just that, there's no crest and no
motto. It's too old.
Perhaps what you saw was a family crest rather than a coat of arms. I
believe there is a difference between the two. One represents a person and
one represents a family.
The crest is a part of the coat of arms I believe.
The coat of arms for my ancestor is just that, there's no crest and no
motto. It's too old.
-
William Barfieldsr
Re: Heraldry help please
"Charani" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:33qmdpF4303plU1@individual.net...
I may have used the wrong word, sorry. What I was referring to was something like this :
http://www.qis.net/~riley/rex/genealogy/riley-coa.html
Whatever you call it, Coat of Arms or Family Crest or Symbol, this represents the O'Reilly, O'Riley, Riley, Reilly, O Raghailligh Family Name. My ggrandmother was Mary Riley.
--
William Barfieldsr
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:30:31 -0600, William Barfieldsr wrote:
Perhaps what you saw was a family crest rather than a coat of arms. I
believe there is a difference between the two. One represents a person and
one represents a family.
The crest is a part of the coat of arms I believe.
The coat of arms for my ancestor is just that, there's no crest and no
motto. It's too old.
I may have used the wrong word, sorry. What I was referring to was something like this :
http://www.qis.net/~riley/rex/genealogy/riley-coa.html
Whatever you call it, Coat of Arms or Family Crest or Symbol, this represents the O'Reilly, O'Riley, Riley, Reilly, O Raghailligh Family Name. My ggrandmother was Mary Riley.
--
William Barfieldsr
-
Charani
Re: Heraldry help please
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:30:39 -0600, William Barfieldsr wrote:
Sorry but it does *not* represent the family at all but one particular
person bearing that name. It's a mistake that the vast majority of
people make.
I would suggest you contact the College of Arms to find out who was
awarded those Arms and when.
At the risk of repeat a very long discussion in here a short while
ago: a coat of arms (with or without a crest and/or motto) belongs to
one specific person.
There are a great many firms who make a great deal of money out of
people who are incorrectly lead to believe that a coat of arms belongs
to a family. Some of them even go so far as to invent a coat of arms,
some of which look very authentic too.
The significance and importance of a coat of arms is something that
which is lost on many.
I may have used the wrong word, sorry. What I was referring to was something like this :
http://www.qis.net/~riley/rex/genealogy/riley-coa.html
Whatever you call it, Coat of Arms or Family Crest or Symbol, this represents
the O'Reilly, O'Riley, Riley, Reilly, O Raghailligh Family Name. My ggrandmother
was Mary Riley.
Sorry but it does *not* represent the family at all but one particular
person bearing that name. It's a mistake that the vast majority of
people make.
I would suggest you contact the College of Arms to find out who was
awarded those Arms and when.
At the risk of repeat a very long discussion in here a short while
ago: a coat of arms (with or without a crest and/or motto) belongs to
one specific person.
There are a great many firms who make a great deal of money out of
people who are incorrectly lead to believe that a coat of arms belongs
to a family. Some of them even go so far as to invent a coat of arms,
some of which look very authentic too.
The significance and importance of a coat of arms is something that
which is lost on many.
-
mickg
Re: Heraldry help please
William Barfieldsr wrote:
No!
It's a con or possibly in this case somebody fooled by misinformation
into believing it belongs to a name.
Coats of Arms etc were at some time awarded to Individuals for their
use. After that depending on the laws of the relevant country at that
point in time the right to use may have been passed on to a specific
heir or assignee but still an individual. Thus your right to use any
coat of arms would be provable by descent and appropriate law at the
time of each inheritance. They do not belong to anyone who has a
particular name at any time!
MickG
"Charani" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:33qmdpF4303plU1@individual.net...
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:30:31 -0600, William Barfieldsr wrote:
Perhaps what you saw was a family crest rather than a coat of arms. I
believe there is a difference between the two. One represents a person and
one represents a family.
The crest is a part of the coat of arms I believe.
The coat of arms for my ancestor is just that, there's no crest and no
motto. It's too old.
I may have used the wrong word, sorry. What I was referring to was something like this :
http://www.qis.net/~riley/rex/genealogy/riley-coa.html
Whatever you call it, Coat of Arms or Family Crest or Symbol, this represents the O'Reilly, O'Riley, Riley, Reilly, O Raghailligh Family Name. My ggrandmother was Mary Riley.
No!
It's a con or possibly in this case somebody fooled by misinformation
into believing it belongs to a name.
Coats of Arms etc were at some time awarded to Individuals for their
use. After that depending on the laws of the relevant country at that
point in time the right to use may have been passed on to a specific
heir or assignee but still an individual. Thus your right to use any
coat of arms would be provable by descent and appropriate law at the
time of each inheritance. They do not belong to anyone who has a
particular name at any time!
MickG
-
D. Stussy
Re: Heraldry help please
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Robin Lithaborn wrote:
Try newsgroup "rec.heraldry".
Years ago, in a Heraldry book, I saw a description of a coat of arms for a
name that runs in my family. Unfortunately, I had about three seconds to look
at it and didn't write anything down.
I wondered if any of you good folk could look it up for me. It would be
incredible if someone could let me know, or point me in the right direction to
look up coats of arms based on full name, which is what I saw in the book.
The name in question is JAMES ROLAND SUTTON and I swear I did see a specific
description for that whole name. I have a family tree which goes back to the
19th century, so hopefully this info will take me further back.
Cheers for any help.
PS: There's a Thai branch in my family too, which I'd love to follow up. Any
idea how I'd do this without having to learn to read siamese?
Try newsgroup "rec.heraldry".