Per Svensson Skage

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gj23899
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Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 23. april 2015 kl. 17.36

My grandmother, Astird Ekker, was born in Norway at Skage, Overhalla, Nord-Trondelag in 1885. She said that her great grandfather, Per Svensson, came to Norway from Borås and was born in 1807. He died at Skage in 1896, when Astrid was 11 years old.

I have not been able to find any record of Per’s birth. Of course, it is possible that he was not born in Borås, and it is possible that he wasn’t born in 1807. It seems likely that he was in Norway by 1836 or 37, when he married Karen Elisabeth. His daughter, Hanna Christina, was born in 1838.

I’ve found different, and rather confusing information about Per, Karen Elisabeth, and Hanna Christina on several genealogical websites.

My mother said that Karen Elisabeth was born in Rødhammer. A Family Search tree says she was born in Biri and adds the name Hansdatter (it doesn't cite sources for this information, but it may be correct). Another family tree for Karen Elisabeth Hansdotter from Biri on a myheritage.com site gives her husband's name as Peder Rødhammer. Others refer to him as Per Svendsen. One tree identifies Karen Elisabeth as born in Biri and calls her husband Peder Svendsen Skage. (Skage was the name of Per/Peder Svensson/Svensen/Svendsen’s farm in Overhalla.)

To complicate matters further, the Family Search tree (and at least one of the others) claims that Per was born in Borås in 1812 (not 1807). It claims that he married Karen Elisabeth in Biri, and that Hanna Christina was born in Borås, apparently before the family moved to Skage. (It offers no documentation for any of these assertions.)

Do any clear records exist for Per, Karen Elisabeth, or Hanna Christina? The only concrete evidence I have found so far is a marriage record for Hanna from 1855 that gives her father's name as Peder Svensen.

dn09334
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av dn09334 » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.28

Peder Sveinsen died nr 3 Skage i Overhalla, Ministerialbok nr. 767A01 (1881-1899), Døde og begravede 1896, side 144.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-130

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.31

Peder and Karen Elisabeth marred November 30th 1836 in Beitstad.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-179

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.34

Hanna Christine was crhistened april 1st 1836 in Beitstad.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-18

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.39

Here you have the family in the 1865 census.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ft ... 126&lnr=00

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.42

Here they are in the 1875 census:

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ft ... 034&lnr=00

They all says she was from Biri and he from Sweden.

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 18.48

Karen Elisabeth Hansdtr was born October 28th 1814 in Biri, and christened November 20th 1814 in Biri. nr 24 among the gils on the right hand side.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... dx_side=-4

We are btw 6th cousins.

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 23. april 2015 kl. 19.34

Thank you so much, Anne. This is great information to have. And it's wonderful to know that we're related!

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Ulf Simensen
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Ulf Simensen » 23. april 2015 kl. 20.11

Hei.

Her er Astrids fødsel og dåp. Født 23 aug 1885.

Kildeinformasjon: Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Skage i Overhalla, Ministerialbok nr. 767A01 (1881-1899), Fødte og døpte 1885, side 10.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-12

Hennes far er Gårdbruker Johannes Williansen Ekker fra Skage og hennes mor er Marit Andersdatter.

Her er Astrid Johannesdatter Ekker med familie i FT-1900. Her er hennesfar oppført som Otto A Furunæs, mens mor er den samme, Marit Andersdatter.

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 7491000294

Dette skulle tyde på at far har dødd og at mor har giftet seg på nytt, siden alle barna heter Andersen eller Andersdatter. Da blir straks spørsmålet, hvem er hennes bestefar? Far til avdøde Johannes eller far til dalevende Otto?

og her er hennes bestefar (far til Otto)i FT-1865

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8347002927

Peder Svendsen er født i Sverige i 1811 og gift med Elisabeth Hansdatter fra Biri i følge FT-1865
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8347002813
:D

Ulf S

Anne Hildrum
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Anne Hildrum » 23. april 2015 kl. 20.18

Hennes far var Johannes og ikke Otto. Johannes døde i 1896 og moren giftet seg opp i 1900.

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Ulf Simensen
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av Ulf Simensen » 23. april 2015 kl. 20.42

Hei Anne.
Du har helt rett med fars navn,barna heter jo Johanne-sen/datter. :) Mitt poeng var da hvem er bestefar/olderfar? Er det faren til hennes døde far eller faren til hennes levende far? :roll:

Men problemet ble løst uten at vi fikk behov for dette svaret. :lol:

Ulf S

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 26. april 2015 kl. 13.33

Peder Svensson was born in Borås on 1. April 1812.
His parents were Sven Hansson (b. 3. March 1769) and Catharina Hansdotter (4. June 1781–13. April 1817)

If you have access to the Arkivdigital, you'll find his birth here:
http://www.arkivdigital.se/aid/show/v43194.b34.s59 (birthname: Pehr)

He lived in Borås as late as 1831 according to the local census:
Arkivdigital reference: Brämhult AI:5 (1824-1838) Bild 6 / sid 1a (AID: v43181.b6.s1a, NAD: SE/GLA/13068)

I have not found any information on when he moved to Norway, but 7. February 1833 he got a son out of wedlock in Inderøy (Nord-Trøndelag) with Ingeborg Johannesdatter Gangstad. This son (my great-great-grandfather) was Johannes Pedersen Inderøen.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... dx_side=-7

There was also a topic on Peder at Arkivverket in 2009:
http://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/15135 ... s-sverige/

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 4. mai 2015 kl. 15.46

Thank all of you for your excellent information. I found another record for a Peder Svendsen in the digital archive and had been wondering if it was the right one, but the dates don't match and are a couple of years too early.

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/kb ... 0000012706

I've also been doing some research on Karen Elisabeth. There are quite a few records available on her and her parents on the glass working forums, and I have been able to get more details on her ancestors.

I Knew my grandmother, Astrid Ekker, who died in 1961, when I was 12 years old. I'm still collecting information on some of her siblings and their descendants. I recently found two second cousins--one in Norway and one in the USA--through DNA.

Martha

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 4. mai 2015 kl. 18.18

Martha skrev:Thank all of you for your excellent information. I found another record for a Peder Svendsen in the digital archive and had been wondering if it was the right one, but the dates don't match and are a couple of years too early.

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/kb ... 0000012706


Since our Peder/Pehr was still living in Borås, Sweden in 1831 (see my previous post), I very much doubt that this record from 1829 is the same person.

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 4. mai 2015 kl. 21.24

I reported back to the Swedish forum, which had directed me to post here. (A very good idea, it turns out.) The moderator just replied with this message. It seems that Per/Peder could have been coming and going from Norway.

This is what she wrote:

This link shows a register over "gårdfarihandlare" (salesmen/pedlars) from Brämhult:http://www.osterhag.se/pages/gardfarihandlare/register/bramhult.htm
Here you can see that both Per Svensson and his father Sven Hansson were "gårdfarihandlare". This list doesn´t tell where they traveled, but it seems likely that they went to Norway. That also means Per could have fathered a child in Norway before he settled there permanently.

It's a theory and one that would be difficult to prove, I would think.

Martha

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 6. mai 2015 kl. 19.39

Thank you for the link, I haven’t seen this before :)

The list from Brämhult might even include Peder’s grandfather, Hans Andersson, born 1734.
(Hans Andersson was married to Kjerstin Svensdotter, born about 1744)

It’s hard to say without any further documentation if they traveled in and out of Norway or not. Per did father a child in 1933 (se post above).

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 7. mai 2015 kl. 14.29

I posted this on the Swedish Forum but haven't had a response yet.

I was searching for information on Sven Hansson and came across a story about a murder and a trial. I have to use google translate to read it, and that is far from perfect. It talks about economic conditions among Boras traders in the early 1800s, and mentions that they went on trips to Norway and Varmland. I'm not sure that this is the same Sven Hansson. The names of the children, besides Per/Peder (who may be the boy Peter Svensson mentioned here) don't seem to match, nor does the mother, but the locations are ones mentioned in the records. The son on trial is Sven Svensson. It could be that there were two marriages involved.


Införd essä i Borås Tidning 18 feb 2006

Illdåd i Rångedala i nytt ljus
Forskning i domböcker kastar förklarat ljus
över dramatisk 1800-tals händelse i Rångedala

http://www.osterhag.se/pages/artiklar/illdaden.html

Thank you so much,

Martha

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 7. mai 2015 kl. 18.11

I saw that article too. There was one or two other articles as well mentioning one Sven Hansson. At first I thought that had to be another Sven Hansson, because the wife’s name and the child’s name are different -- at least from what I know about the family. But now I’m not so certain anymore. This might be the same Sven Hansson anyway.

Sven Hansson had, as far as I’ve found out, (at least) 8 children:

Married 1804-05-21 to Catharina Hansdotter (b. 1781-06-04 d. 1817-04-13):
Maria (b. 1810-01-10)
Pehr/Peder (b. 1812-04-01 d. 1896-03.21)
Johanna (1815-09-12 d. 1816-01-23)

Married 1819-01-03 to Johanna Andersdotter (b. 1795):
Johannes (b. 1819-12-10 d. ≈1820)
Johannes (b. 1820-12-19)
Caisa (b. 1823-04-02 d. 1844-12-08.)
Anna (b. 1826-11-26)
Anders Henric (b. 1830-02-22)


The article says that Sven Svensson was the oldest son of Sven Hansson. Sven Hansson could of course have been married before Catharina (the record from 1804 doesn’t say anything. In the record from 1819 he’s a “widower”), and had children that had moved out or lived width their mother, by the time Peder was born. Or maybe Sven Svensson was born outside of wedlock.

The article also says that Sven Svensson’s mother, Brita Svensdotter, dies shortly after the trials (and therefore was still alive when our Sven married in 1804 and 1819), and that Sven Hansson dies at about 62 years old. “Our” Sven Hansson was 62 in 1831, so that could fit.

The Peter mentioned is in fact 10 years at the time (“Gossen Peter Svensson, som är 10 år”), so that fits as well.

So the more I read, the more I might think that this is in fact one family :)

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 7. mai 2015 kl. 18.43

I found a record on ancestry.com: link

Don’t know if it’s the same people, but:
A Sven Hansson married Brita Svensdotter, 23 jan 1788, at Foss, Göteborg Och Bohus, Sweden.

I don’t have access to ArkivDigital at the moment, so I’m not able to verify the record.

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 7. mai 2015 kl. 21.24

Thank you, Judith. I'm delighted to have found out so much about Per, largely due to all your research.

There's only one Sven Hansson on the list of traders from Boras, so it does seem possible that the story is about him and his son.

It does seems likely that Hans was married twice, or at least had children, earlier. Catharina is quite a bit younger than he is.

I haven't signed up for ArkivDigital, but just found out last night (via a webinar on researching your Swedish ancestors) that if you like them on Facebook, they let you know whenever they offer free access. I guess they had three free days a few weeks ago.

Martha

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 9. mai 2015 kl. 13.26

ArkivDigital have free access a couple of weekends a year.
Often in March and around August or November, I think. I usually take the opportunity, but this March I was occupied with other things.

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 11. mai 2015 kl. 22.33

Martha skrev:There's only one Sven Hansson on the list of traders from Boras, so it does seem possible that the story is about him and his son.


Or it could be that this trader is not our guy, and/or that our guy was not “gårdfarihandlare”. In the church records “our” Sven Hansson is said to have been a “hemmansägare” (farmer with own land). He could of course have been gårdfarihandlare as well, but the church records I’ve seen do not say.

I read the article more carefully today, and there is in fact more than one detail that does not fit.

So now I’m doubting again :?

The article says:

I detta läge befann sig familjen på Stora Ormåsa i början av 1820-talet. Sven Svensson var äldste son till Sven Hansson, som genom gårdfarihandeln blivit välbeställd och flyttat från mindre omständigheter i Varnum socken till den högt belägna gården Ormåsa. Med vacker utsikt mot Rångedala kyrka och strax norr därom ligger gården Klämmestorp. Familjen kom att tvingas från Ormåsa för att i ett senare skede hamna på ett torp under Klämmestorp.


This can be translated into something like:
“In this situation the family was on Stora Ormåsa in the beginning of the 1820s. Sven Svensson was the oldest son of Sven Hansson, who had become wealthy through his trading and moved from lesser circumstances in Varnum parish to the farm Ormåsa on higher grounds. With a beautiful view of Rångedala Church, and a little bit north lies Klämmestorp. The family was later forced from Ormåsa and ended up on one croft/cottage under Klämmestorp.”

Our Sven Hansson was born in Rångedala and moved to Brämhult (where Peder was born) a little bit further south in 1785. He was not from Varnum, and did (as far as I know) not live in Rångedala in the 1820s.

And some paragraphs further down, the article continues:

Kort efter flytten till Klämmestorp är både Sven och hans hustru döda och sterbhuset lämnar då in konkursansökan. De flesta barnen har vid det laget bildat egna familjer och alla sönerna är gårdfarihandlare eller handelsdrängar.


This can be translated into something like:
“Shortly after their move to Klämmestorp both Sven and his wife have died, and the estate files for bankruptcy. Most of the children have at this point formed their own families and all of their sons are traiders or farmhands/laborers.”

Our Sven Hansson had several children during the 1820s. The youngest born in 1830. So most of his children could not have formed their own families or be of working age at the time. His “wife” is also mentioned, and this does not fit width what we know of Sven who was married twice and his last wife was still alive in 1831.

So either I have it all wrong with the Sven Hansson I thought was Peder’s father, or there is more then one Sven Hansson in the area of about the same age.

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 12. mai 2015 kl. 17.43

Thanks again, Judith. I've been dealing with these issues with my father's family. His father and his mother's parents all came from Sweden. I found 6 Anders Nilssons of the right age in the right location, and two were married to Ingeborg Svensdotters. The Norwegian side has been much easier, and my Norwegian relatives have already done all of the work!

I just found out that there is a Family History Center nearby and may be able to get access to the archive digital records there. It may be too small a center to do that.

It was the Boras forum that gave me the information that Sven Hansson and Per Svensson were traders, based on the information you had posted. I can ask again if there are other possibilities, but I will try the Family Search Center first.

Martha

gj09321
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj09321 » 13. mai 2015 kl. 21.20

It could also be that the article don’t have all the facts in place… :)
Can you post the link to this Borås forum?

gj23899
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av gj23899 » 15. mai 2015 kl. 15.16

I posted it on May 5th, but haven't had a reply.Maybe you should inquire there too?

http://aforum.genealogi.se/discus/messa ... 1430832819

Did you notice that a census--1875 I think--lists P Svendsen as Føderaadsmand og Handelsmand?

Martha

50627
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Re: Per Svensson Skage

Legg inn av 50627 » 22. august 2015 kl. 0.20

FT-1891 Overhalla
Husstandsmedlemmer

P.nr. H.nr. Navn Alder/født Fødested Familiestilling Sivilstand Yrke Bostatus
1 1 Johannes Villiamsen Ekker 1855 Overhalden hp hf g grdbr. selveier
10 1 Hans Mortiniussen 1866 Overhalden dagleier ug gaardsarb. skydskarl
11 1 Villiam Skilliaas Ekker 1821 Grong hp hf g kaar. lidt gaardsaarb.
12 1 Hanna Kristine Ekker 1838 Beitstaden hu g alm. husgjerning
13 1 Ingvar Adolf Ekker 1872 Overhalden fl ug husmalerlære
14 1 Peder Svendsen 1812 Boraas, Sverige hp hf g kaarm. klædehandler paa Nordland
15 1 Karen Elisabet Hansdtr. 1814 Birid, Hedemarken hu g alm. husgjerning
16 1 Margrethe Ekker 1869 Overhalden tj ug husgjerning og haandarb.
2 1 Marie Andreasdtr. 1858 Overhalden hu g husgjerning
3 1 Vidar Ekker 1883 Overhalden s
4 1 Astrid Ekker 1885 Overhalden d
5 1 Per Ekker 1887 Overhalden s
6 1 Eirik Ekker 1889 Overhalden s
7 1 Elen Sofie Petersdtr. 1862 Vemundvik tj ug budeie
8 1 Sanna Pedersdtr. 1871 Overhalden tj ug kokkepige
9 1 Gurine Justine Justsdtr. 1876 Overhalden tj jæter og barnepige
Bosted (hus/gård/tomt)

B.nr. Bostedsnavn Matr.nr/Gnr Løpenr/Bnr Antall husholdninger Tilstedeværende personer Hjemmehørende personer
30 Skage 136

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