berge 1841 reading digital archive

[gj06423]

hi there
my name is ole nilsen and i live in australia and was wondering if someone could help me read or understand a entry from the digital archive .On my dads dad side johan herman nilsen was born in berge ostfold 13 dec 1841 and his parents were niels andersen and ane maria i cant read the next bit which is her last name and i think where she came from and the names in the last box i dont know where they both were born or lived

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?s ... e=nei&ls=1

no. ten bottom of page

hope someone can help

[dn21210]

I've attached a link that works:
Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Berg, Ministerialbok nr. I 3 (1832-1842), Fødte og døpte 1842, side 113.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-120

Let's hope Else B. Rustad comes along

[Else Berit Rustad]

Johan Hermand, born December 13, 1841, bapt. January 30, 1842.

Parents: Spigersmed Niels Andersen and Ane Maria Skjønning i Tisted(alen)

Mvh
Else B.

[gj06423]

hi
the last part of ane maria name Skjønning i Tisted(alen) can you tell me what that means is it a place in norway or sweden or a farm

thank you

[Else Berit Rustad]

I think (I'm not sure) Skjønning is a farm name. It might have been a family name, but I don't think so.
Tistedalen is the name of the district.

[gj06423]

hi

in the last box there are some names that i cant read but it seems there is a lars Skjønning and i hear that some last names of that period depended on the farm you worked on is that true could lars be the father of ane or a brother i wish there was a way of finding ane or niels birth date or place

thanks for all your help

[Else Berit Rustad]

The box you mentioned, contains the names of the baptism witnesses. Among them was Lars Skjønning.

Yes, you are right, they usually took the name after the place/farm where they lived. So, during a life-time, they may have changed names many times! It's quite confusing!

Regards
Else B.

[gj06423]

hi there

so if it says i tistdalen does that mean she was born there because i have found a tistdalen in halden or does it mean that is where her and niels lived there when johan was born

[Else Berit Rustad]

Tistedalen is close to Halden, that's right. If the register lists Tistedalen as "address", it means that the parents lived there at the time of the childs birth.

Regards
Else B.

[dn20441]

Hello,

Wondering if "Skønning" is equal to SKAANNING / SKANNINGFOSS in Idd (at the time).
Skånninfoss is the last (?) waterfall in Tista. The Skaanning(foss) farms in Tistedalen (Idd) were located at the left side of the Tista. There was a mill at the waterfall, maybe also other workshops - where Niels the smith may have been working.

I interpret the church records about Johan's christening as that the family was living at Skønning (= Skaaning ?), Tistedalen.

Egil G.

[Inger Rita Asbjørnsen]

In Sweden you can find people with name Schönning / Schöning

Rita

[dn20441]

My suggestion that SKJØNNING might be another way of spelling SKAANNING may not have been so well founded .....
The family of course lived in the BERG part of TISTEDALEN - north (right) bank of the Tista, and Skaaning is a name from the Idd (south) side of Tistedalen.

I agree with the last msg. that Skjønning (Sjønning) may be a Swedish family name - possibly the mother's maiden name. There are a few Swedish names among the god fathers/mothers. Which may not prove a Swedish connection for the family as there were a lot Swedish immigrants in the Halden (Fredrikshald at the time) area.

Possibly some extra information about the family in the church records on the christening of their next (?) child: ANDERS MAGNUS, born Jan. 10, 1844 (no. 5, right page):
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-74

Attempted transl.:
A. M. born Jan 10, christned at home by teacher H. Hansen, christening conf. Feb. 18. Parents: Niels Andersen and wife Anne Marie Sjønning ... (?? is this an "address" or ?? - seems to end with "..folk" = people ...?) in Tistedalen.
God fathers/mothers: .......... All (the same "address" or categorisation as above) in Tistedalen.

Egil G.

[gj06423]

hi

i have found a clearer copy of anders magnus but will need some help translating it so if anybody can your help will be much appreciated all the way over here in australia

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?s ... e=nei&ls=1

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Hello

As far as I can read the occupation of both the parents and the godparents is "smedefolk" in Tistedalen.

Smed = Smith

Many of the godparents have Swedish names: Hammarström (Hammerström), Hovström, Stake, Eldström.

Tove DJ

[dn20441]

Hi Ole,

I guess the page you are referring to is this:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-16 ?

(To copy a working link be sure to open the field "Bildeinformasjon" and copy "Permanent sidelenke:".)

I had deliberately chosen a link to the church warden's version as that contained something more about the parents and godparents from Tistedalen ....
That extra word has been interpreted by Tove as SMITHS and I agree with that.

The priest's version about A. M.'s christening contains the same info:
Chr. date: Feb. 18 (act. this is confirmation in church of home christening)
Church: Asak (a few miles north of Tistedalen)
"aegte" = legitimate
Parents: Smith in Tistedalen NILS ANDERSSON (Andersson with double s (bar above the s means double letter) = indication of Swedish origin) and wife ANNE MARIE SJÖNNING
Godparents: ...... All in Tistedalen
"Christened at home by teacher Hans Hansen in Tistedalen"

Almost all smiths in Tistedalen/Fredrikshald in the beg./middle of 19th cent. came from Sweden.

Tistedalen is considered the cradle of modern manufacturing industry in Norway with cotton mill from 1813.
http://www.museumsnett.no/hhs/spinderiet/
Unfortunately no English version as far as I can see.

Did our smiths work in a smithy connected to the cotton mill?

(The teacher mentioned has a name suspiciously similar to one of my great grandfathers, teacher in Hvaler from 1849. A coincidence maybe - but I need to research this.)

Egil G.

[gj06423]

hi egil

thank you so far for all your help, my great great grandfather johan herman nilsen eventually moved to fjaere grimstad aust agder and was married in 1865 to gunvor agrimsdatter they were married in arendale aust agder i have found them in the 1875 census living in fjaere with their children and his mother ane marie now it says her last name as johansdatter and she was born in dal sweden in 1817 but as yet im lost why didnt it say sjonning as her last name and i have no clue where dal is .Johan Herman died 28 december 1924 in grimstad
anders magnus also moved to fjaere SO FAR VERY CONFUSING

IF i have to search in sweden do you know where the best place to start looking and do they have a similar setup like the norwegian archives once again thank you and this forum has been such a great help i cannot thank it enough both my parents are no longer alive and mum did write a diary for the last year of her life but very day by day events my dad had a very bad memory and wasnt very helpful but i suppose hindsight i should have asked more questions and being so far from my place of birth it makes it hard i myself was born in fredrikstad in 1962 my brother in moss my parents were married in moss baptist church

[dn20441]

Hello,

Smedbruket / Catrineholm, Nedre Tistedal: This is where our "smiths people" almost certainly lived and worked.
http://ostfold.kulturnett.no/arbeiderbo ... ruket.html

Catrineholm Iron Works was started in 1829 as a nail hammer (Nils is called nail smith in one of the church records). The community around was also called "Lelle-Sverige" (Little Sweden) because of all the Swedish immigrants. A couple of workers' dwellings still remain (built in the 1870s), and a lot of various remnants incl. the basement of chief smith Hammerström's house (he was godfather to one of the sons).

Swedish immigrants to Østfold in this period should be found here:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... etanr=2911
However, not "our people" ..... ?

There is one: Clara Stina Schjönning - Hos garver Jens Bergh - Halden - 19 y. o. (1843/44) - from Billingsfors (Bengtsfors municip. today)
And (sister ?): Laura Kaisa ??sönning - Tistedal - 17 y. o. (1840/41) - to Tistedalen from Billingsfors

If I remember correctly, there are a Stina and a Kaisa among the godparents ... ?

Searching for Swedish ancestors: Of course there is in Sweden also a service similar to Digitalarkivet, but not free like here
Look for links to Swedish data bases here - this site - GENEALOGISKE RESSURSER - GEOGRAFISK INND. RESS. - SVERIGE :
http://www.disnorge.no/genress/index.ph ... ri&kid=287

Recommended:
http://www.genealogi.se/roots/

with "chat" like this one for posing questions about ancestors - ANBYTARFORUM.

But maybe not necessary to Swedish sites:
Digitalarkivet's BRUKERFORUM have regular participants who are very good at finding people in Swedish sources. Very much recommended:
On Digitalarkivet's front page, look for DEBATTFORUMA in left h. menue. Then BRUKARFORUM (the 2. link).

Hoping this can be of some help.

Egil G.

[dn20441]

Forgot to comment DAL, SWEDEN.
This is cerainly the municipality right across the border, eastw.: DALS-ED today. (Railway Halden - Gothenburg passes through.) One of the "towns" in this munic. is Nössemark with many emigrants to Halden area.

The province (Sw.: LANDSKAP) to the east of the South Østfold-Sweden border is DALSLAND.

Egil

[gj06423]

hi
have found in that database 4 of the godparents of anders magnus so i think you are on the right path thanks again

[dn20441]

More on the net about the iron works in Tistedal - esp. the newer history - if you google with the right spelling: CATHRINEHOLM.

Egil

[dn20441]

Reading about Swedish immigrants in the Halden area, I learned that many of them were baptists. An early baptist church was built in Tistedal.

This means that searching for your ancestors you may have to look for entries under DISSENTERE in church records.

Egil

[gj06423]

dear egil

thank you so much for your help i posted a query on the swedish part in the other countries in dis norge forums and have recieved alot of help on the Schjönning and in your previous entries on stin and lena Schjönning you were right they are swedish and moved to norway in 1840 after marrying if you are interested all the info is in emigrasion and other lande under sverige in the ane marie Schjönning and nils andersson forum

thank you again and if i can help you in anyway dont hesitate to ask i will also send this as a pm


ole vidar nilsen from australia
(there is another ole nilsen)